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Old 11-18-2022, 08:50 AM   #1
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Bought the wrong truck

Hi Everyone,
I made a very common mistake. I did not buy enough truck. I'll share my numbers and some background and hope that you can provide some guidance on what I need to buy next.

Background:
- Recently bought a 2021 F350 Platinum CC short bed diesel
- 11,500 GVWR
- 7230 rear axel rating
- payload is 3339
- I have a 2021 Alliance Paradigm 310. GVWR is 15,000, 35 feet
- I plan to travel 5-6 months a year. Next year we have a 3 month out west camping trip planned and in 2024 we head to Alaska for a 6 month trip

CAT scale numbers with trailer:
Steer Axle - 4800
Drive - 7400
Trailer - 11,220
Total - 23420

CAT scale numbers for just truck:
Steer - 4920
Drive - 3800
Total - 8720

It looks like I'm 700 pounds over on GVWR and 170 pounds over on the rear axel.

We just got this camper so there are upgrades that we'll be doing.

Things I still want to add to my camper:
- solar (adding 1200 watts on roof and adding 3 additional lithium batteries for a total of 6)
- a MORyde cargo tray (100lbs) in basement passthrough
- MORyde generator tray in front area (say 60 pounds)
- 3000 watt portable generator in front area (say 100 pounds)

I would have liked to have added a larger fuel tank on the F350 short bed, but with the current weight issue, that's not happening.

We bought a used camper that came with a washer/dryer in the front closet area installed and a dishwasher in the kitchen (which we're thinking of removing).

I think I need to move to a F350/3500 long bed (preferred) or a dually. I don't think we'd ever go bigger on our camper. We'd like to try and camp in national parks as much as we can. From what I've seen, a F350 Platinum long bed has a payload of around 4000 pounds. I think my current payload is 3480. Do you think the additional 500 pounds of payload in a long bed would safely put me inside the numbers given the upgrades I have planned?

I'm not happy about another truck search since I just got this one in August. But I want to make sure I safe on the roads as my wife and I head off on many RVing adventures.

Thanks for your thoughts.
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Old 11-18-2022, 09:19 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCamper2 View Post
Hi Everyone,
I made a very common mistake. I did not buy enough truck. I'll share my numbers and some background and hope that you can provide some guidance on what I need to buy next.

Background:
- Recently bought a 2021 F350 Platinum CC short bed diesel
- 11,500 GVWR
- 7230 rear axel rating
- payload is 3339
- I have a 2021 Alliance Paradigm 310. GVWR is 15,000, 35 feet
- I plan to travel 5-6 months a year. Next year we have a 3 month out west camping trip planned and in 2024 we head to Alaska for a 6 month trip

CAT scale numbers with trailer:
Steer Axle - 4800
Drive - 7400
Trailer - 11,220
Total - 23420

CAT scale numbers for just truck:
Steer - 4920
Drive - 3800
Total - 8720

It looks like I'm 700 pounds over on GVWR and 170 pounds over on the rear axel.

We just got this camper so there are upgrades that we'll be doing.

Things I still want to add to my camper:
- solar (adding 1200 watts on roof and adding 3 additional lithium batteries for a total of 6)
- a MORyde cargo tray (100lbs) in basement passthrough
- MORyde generator tray in front area (say 60 pounds)
- 3000 watt portable generator in front area (say 100 pounds)


I would have liked to have added a larger fuel tank on the F350 short bed, but with the current weight issue, that's not happening.

We bought a used camper that came with a washer/dryer in the front closet area installed and a dishwasher in the kitchen (which we're thinking of removing).

I think I need to move to a F350/3500 long bed (preferred) or a dually. I don't think we'd ever go bigger on our camper. We'd like to try and camp in national parks as much as we can. From what I've seen, a F350 Platinum long bed has a payload of around 4000 pounds. I think my current payload is 3480. Do you think the additional 500 pounds of payload in a long bed would safely put me inside the numbers given the upgrades I have planned?

I'm not happy about another truck search since I just got this one in August. But I want to make sure I safe on the roads as my wife and I head off on many RVing adventures.

Thanks for your thoughts.
Just as important, you only have 180 lbs left until you exceed the GVWR on the trailer:

Actual Weights - Fifth Wheel Weights from CAT Scales - TowingPlanner

That may be problematic with all the extras you still want to put in/on.

As for the truck, if you went to a long bed and then added an auxiliary fuel tank you'll just negate the payload bump you made in getting the new truck.

IMHO, with all you want to do, if you are going with a new truck you may as well get a dually and be done with it. Go up to the F450 to get the benefit of the decreased turning radius.

Regardless of which truck, if you want to lose some weight to maximize payload, consider dropping from a Platinum to a lesser trim level.
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Old 11-18-2022, 09:47 AM   #3
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I have the same fifth wheel with no extras and it is pin heavy. The washer and dryer add substantial weight right on the pin.

I started with a high payload F-350 gasser (4K) and a slider hitch and was still bumping up against the limits. You didnít say what hitch you have, but going to a lightweight hitch like a PullRite 2600 could help some. I bit the bullet and went to a Ď21 GMC Denali DRW. Many people said it was way too much truck but Iíd rather have room to spare (5,400lb payload) than too little after spending a lot of money. Oh yeah, I also now have a TrailerSaver BD5 and it is great.
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Old 11-18-2022, 10:09 AM   #4
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Just going to a long bed isn't going to give you the improvement you need IMO. Go dually.

My 2022 F350 DRW has a 14,000 lb GVWR with a stickered 5,453 lb payload, a 9,995 GAWR and max trailer weight rating of 31,300lbs (34,700 with 4.10's); which is a significant difference compared to your current truck. ....but aside from the weight ratings, the 174" WB and DRW's will significantly enhance your towing stability.

You could also look at an F450 as mentioned above as it has a 7' tighter turning radius but is also comes with 4.30 gears which is very steep and not required for your load and the commercial 19.5" tires and wheels are rougher riding and there aren't many choices for all terrain type tires if you care. The F350 DRW is more than enough for your trailer.

I used the Super Duty numbers because that's what I have but a properly equipped Ram or GM 3500 DRW will do the job just fine as well.
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Old 11-18-2022, 10:33 AM   #5
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You have a 3720# Pin wet
3600 added to Rear axle Plus 120 added to front axle
11220 trailer axle....15K Trailer GVWR


You are Exceeding your trucks RAWR
You are close to trailers GVWR



Wrong truck .....Need DRW
Trailer is MAX'd out so forget the 'upgrades'
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Old 11-18-2022, 10:50 AM   #6
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There are some good comments on the RV GVWR. How much “stuff” did your weight include, like full tanks, etc. If all you have is the W/D, the standard single battery, full propane tanks and some clothes & food, something seems way off. Unless your storage are is stuffed with concrete or gold bars!

I may have to weigh mine and see what the total weight is. It has been a while.
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Old 11-18-2022, 05:49 PM   #7
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I weighed heading to the beach for a camping trip. We had 2 full 30 lb propane tanks, 3/4 full fuel, firewood, 20 gal propane tank and fire pit in the bed of the truck.

I have an Anderson hitch that weighs about 35 lbs.

In the very front bay are 3 lithium batteries and some power cords. Not much.

We have a LG washer/dryer in the front bedroom closet area. I'll check out the weight on that.
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Old 11-18-2022, 06:06 PM   #8
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Truck is overloaded

Trailer is few pounds from being overloaded

Simple math.........
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Old 11-18-2022, 06:43 PM   #9
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Humm - I would have thought that a F-350 SRW short bed could easily tow a 5th wheel with a model number that starts with 310. We were both wrong.

The big improvement in a dually is you jump almost 2,700lbs in rear axle capacity.
From around 7,300lbs. for a SRW to about 10,000lbs. with the DRW. This is a big deal with the added axle capacity.

Add a wider track and 4 tires in back you have a very stable towing platform. I used a 2012 F-450 as my tow vehicle. It made towing a non-event. It towed a 16,000lb. 5th wheel easily as I snow birded to Florida in winter for 6 years. I did like the turning radius and bigger brakes. I did not like the 4:30 gears as much with just a 6 speed.
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Old 11-18-2022, 07:10 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by tuffr2 View Post
Humm - I would have thought that a F-350 SRW short bed could easily tow a 5th wheel with a model number that starts with 310. We were both wrong.

The big improvement in a dually is you jump almost 2,700lbs in rear axle capacity.
From around 7,300lbs. for a SRW to about 10,000lbs. with the DRW. This is a big deal with the added axle capacity.

Add a wider track and 4 tires in back you have a very stable towing platform. I used a 2012 F-450 as my tow vehicle. It made towing a non-event. It towed a 16,000lb. 5th wheel easily as I snow birded to Florida in winter for 6 years. I did like the turning radius and bigger brakes. I did not like the 4:30 gears as much with just a 6 speed.
Yeah, the DRW trucks are a game changer for sure. The new 10spd helps alot with those 4.30's but I still think they should offer a 3.73 or something.....unless you are towing 30,000 lbs, 4.30's just aren't needed with 1050 ft lbs and a 10 spd. A ford engineer recently opined that he thought 3.31's were the perfect gear for the 6.7/10spd. combo. Happy with my 3.55's
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Old 11-18-2022, 10:13 PM   #11
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Certainly frustrating to invest in such a nice truck and learn itís not enough from a compliance and risk perspective, but very wise to correct up for peace of mind, performance and stability; I made the same mistake myself and can confirm that with same trailer & same driver, the upgrade to the dually is as different as night vs day for stability, stopping and traveling comfort.

My trailer 15k plus and I have a 2019 F350 DRW diesel, so sharing my weights from scale tickets at beginning of a 2 week trip and some truck info as a general relative benchmark.

Truck is 9060# front axle = 5080; rear = 3980
Combo = 24,600# front = 5140; rear = 7540; trailer axles = 11920 so,
15,540 for total trailer with 3620 on pin (23%)

All weights were well within axle weight ratings, GVWR, payload, GCWR for the truck per stickers. I also have W&D upstairs and trailer was fully loaded/stocked for travel incl. 1/2 tank fresh H2O. (Probably as heavy as itís been since new in 2016.)

My truck is a Lariat, so not as many amenities or as much weight as a Platinum, but still nicely equipped. Payload per sticker is 5340#. At time of weight, it was fully fueled and ready for travel with 2 adults, a few necessities/hand tools under the seat that always stay with the truck, but essentially an empty bed, so our truck may be loaded lighter than most. (Iíve since added a 60 gal aux tank/toolbox combo in the bed which isnít in the above weights but quick math done beforehand says Iím still good on payload, etc. when its full.)

Hope the above numbers are of some benefit for a relative data point on a 15k fiver with a run of the mill 350/3500 class DRW diesel tow mule.

Regarding solar/other trailer options, sounds like GVWR for the trailer will be the concern, not the limits of a DRW truck

Side note: my 2019 has 6 speed trans, and 3:55 rear axle. That axle was hard to find, but sought this out since it is also a daily driver. 3:55 axle has shown to help a bit on fuel economy both loaded and unloaded versus the 4:10.
Weíve traveled in Colorado Rockies a couple times including crossing the divide (Berthoud Pass.) The Colorado trips were with friends who have a roughly 16k trailer and same truck but with 4:10 axle. No real noticeable difference between the trucksí performance running together from Texas to CO and back other than mine would often downshift a bit earlier, and overall, I got about 1-1.5 mpg better mileage. All that is just to say, that in my opinion, you will be fine with any axle ratio choice that is available in the 350/3500 DRW trucks.

Happy shopping & Safe travels,
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Old 11-18-2022, 10:25 PM   #12
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This online towing calculator will accurately and impartially match your 5th wheel trailer to a prospective tow vehicle.



This not about how much a pickup can tow, it's all about how much it can safely control.
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Old 11-18-2022, 10:27 PM   #13
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My F-450 was only happy when towing with 4:30 gears and 6 speed. Solo driving was ok on 35 to 45 mph roads but on the freeway 70 mph was the max it was comfortable with. It did not like 75mph not towing. I always would think about anyone with a F-550 and 4:88 gears. That had to be bad on the highway w/o towing.

I traded that truck for a F-250 with 6 speeds and 3:73 gears. The F-250 is a much better highway cruiser. It is comfortable at 75 mph. My cruising speed in 70mph zones is 75mph.

The 10 speed has to be a game changer.

On thing I will mention is the F-450 was a King Ranch with the fancy leather. The leather was starting to shows visible signs of wear. Leather Cleaner/Conditioner helped a little. The F-250 is a Lariat without the fancy leather and it is showing no signs of wear.
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Old 11-19-2022, 05:22 AM   #14
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@mistercee - thanks for the filling out the towing calculator with my weights! That was awesome.

How is the 3600 pin weight being calculated? I'm not sure how this number is derived.

My dry weights for this camper are:
- dry: 12,243
- hitch: 2530
- payload: 2757
- GVWR: 15,000

I did do some research on the LG washer/dryer combo that the previous owner installed. Looks like it may weigh between 161 - 185 pounds! I'm not sure of the exact model as the camper is not stored here at the house. But that seems like a lot of weight.

I do have things in the basement like a Blackstone griddle, tables, chairs, mat, etc. Still with all that, I'm not sure where all the weight is coming from.

I think I may want to empty the camper basement and front compartment and re-weigh.

Thanks everyone for your comments. Really appreciate your insights.
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