CAT Scale Analysis

[mistercee]

Posted this in a couple of forums, looking for suggestions.


Been on the road for a week with our new Rockwood 8324 travel trailer and am having trouble with the tow quality. Originally had a light/floaty feeling on the front end of the truck which I attributed to not enough weight being distributed to the truck's front axle. I adjusted the Equal-i-Zer 14K hitch by adding a washer and that resolved it for the most part - not perfect, but better. Tried a second washer but by the measurement, it shows 'over adjusted' when I do that.

I still have an almost boat-like ride, like I'm riding a swell...even 10-15 mph winds are giving me issue. I can feel a lot of 'nudges' and I'm constantly having to correct.

I hit up the CAT scale yesterday and took my 3 weights.

At 11.5%, I think I'm light on tongue weight. I really don't have anything I can move to the front of the trailer. However, my freshwater tank drain (gate) valve is forward of the axles....can I assume the tank is right there as well? If so, thinking of running with 1/2-3/4 tank of FW to give me more TW.

Also, what do you guys think about the amount of weight being transferred to the trailer and truck axles with the WDH engaged? Too little?

Unable to post results link with my phone….please copy/paste below in a browser to view:

http://towingplanner.com/ActualWeigh...3880&w3da=3800



Open to any/all suggestions!

Thanks.

[DR60]

I am not able to open your link, And you might add what you are pulling it with.

Without knowing what your floor plan is I opened Rockwood's link to a floorplan that has a rear king bedroom with a large slide and washer /dryer right at the rear bumper.
all of those add up to a tail heavy trailer. DR

[Marine359]

Mister EE,
With your F350 one ton pickup, there really should be no problem towing unless you have too little tongue weight. You can put much more weight on the tongue without concern about payload or rear GAWR.

Your FW tank would normally be mounted over the axles, but if your drain is way forward of axles, likely the tank is somewhat forward of axles. That’s good news for you. Water weighs 8#/gal. So a full 40 gal tank adds 320# vrs zero for empty tank. It doesn’t all go to the tongue, but a full tank has dramatic effects on towing. Additionally, full waste tanks are NO BUENO, as they can add over 500# well behind the axles, causing an even more dramatic affect on tongue weight. So can adding bicycles or other heavy stuff to the bumper, or rear frame hitch.

Since, nobody knows how you’re packed out, what your fluid carry might be, or how weight is distributed in your trailer, it’s really too hard to disagnose your issue. Whatever anybody suggests here is just a guess u til you provide more info.

Also,
Is your trailer level when on the ball without WDH engaged?
Or is it slightly nose up or nose down?
How much weight in batteries do you have on the tongue?
Do you carry e-bikes in the trailer or on a rear mount?
Is your F-350 suspension lifted?
Are you using a TPMS and inflating to cold inflation pressure?
Do you have off road high flotation tires on the truck?

All of these things affect tow characteristics.

[DR60]

Adding water is an easy way to see what changes it makes. If it works adding an extra battery, or adding larger propane tanks to the tongue may help. also moving your electric cords and water hoses to a forward storage may help. Good Luck DR

[mistercee]

Originally Posted by Marine359

Mister EE,
With your F350 one ton pickup, there really should be no problem towing unless you have too little tongue weight. You can put much more weight on the tongue without concern about payload or rear GAWR.

Your FW tank would normally be mounted over the axles, but if your drain is way forward of axles, likely the tank is somewhat forward of axles. That’s good news for you. Water weighs 8#/gal. So a full 40 gal tank adds 320# vrs zero for empty tank. It doesn’t all go to the tongue, but a full tank has dramatic effects on towing. Additionally, full waste tanks are NO BUENO, as they can add over 500# well behind the axles, causing an even more dramatic affect on tongue weight. So can adding bicycles or other heavy stuff to the bumper, or rear frame hitch.

Since, nobody knows how you’re packed out, what your fluid carry might be, or how weight is distributed in your trailer, it’s really too hard to disagnose your issue. Whatever anybody suggests here is just a guess u til you provide more info.

Also,
Is your trailer level when on the ball without WDH engaged?
Or is it slightly nose up or nose down?
How much weight in batteries do you have on the tongue?
Do you carry e-bikes in the trailer or on a rear mount?
Is your F-350 suspension lifted?
Are you using a TPMS and inflating to cold inflation pressure?
Do you have off road high flotation tires on the truck?

All of these things affect tow characteristics.

Trailer is a Rockwood Signature 8324SB - front living design, which gives me very little in the way of front compartment storage.

*There is only 1/2" difference between front wheel well measurements with truck only vs. on the ball - no WDH engaged. With current configuration of WDH, returning it to 1/8" under original (unhitched) measurement. Hopefully my link with the weights from CAT scale now works so u can view the results of my 3 weighs.

*Two 12v Group 27s on the tongue (FLA)

*Do have the optional cargo rack on the rear of trailer. Have a poly box (about 40 lbs) carrying my sewer stuff - probably 25 lbs, so 65 total.

*Stock suspension. No camper/snow plow pkg, no lift kit etc. 18" tires - original OEM size but tires are new Continental TerrainContact HT (highway tires)

*Trailer (GY Endurance) inflated to max sidewall PSI - 80. Truck inflated cold per door placard: 60 front and 80 rear.

I've also attached a pic of the trailer hitched up, WDH engaged.

Thanks for responding and for any other info you can share.

[Marine359]

Wow, very long trailer. Very nice.
I can understand sensitivity to crosswind.
Hopefully your WDH has built-in anti-sway.
And hopefully your WDH bars are appropriately sized for your big trailer.
Post your hitch brand and bar size (rating), and someone with a similar setup may respond.

[mistercee]

Originally Posted by Marine359

Wow, very long trailer. Very nice.
I can understand sensitivity to crosswind.
Hopefully your WDH has built-in anti-sway.
And hopefully your WDH bars are appropriately sized for your big trailer.
Post your hitch brand and bar size (rating), and someone with a similar setup may respond.

It’s a 14k Equal-i-Zer, 4 point sway control so aside from a Pro pride, about as good as it gets. Had it dialed in great with previous 33’/8300 lb ‘wet’ trailer but this one is proving to be a challenge!

[kdauto]

Originally Posted by mistercee

Trailer is a Rockwood Signature 8324SB - front living design, which gives me very little in the way of front compartment storage.

*There is only 1/2" difference between front wheel well measurements with truck only vs. on the ball - no WDH engaged. With current configuration of WDH, returning it to 1/8" under original (unhitched) measurement. Hopefully my link with the weights from CAT scale now works so u can view the results of my 3 weighs.

*Two 12v Group 27s on the tongue (FLA)

*Do have the optional cargo rack on the rear of trailer. Have a poly box (about 40 lbs) carrying my sewer stuff - probably 25 lbs, so 65 total.

*Stock suspension. No camper/snow plow pkg, no lift kit etc. 18" tires - original OEM size but tires are new Continental TerrainContact HT (highway tires)

*Trailer (GY Endurance) inflated to max sidewall PSI - 80. Truck inflated cold per door placard: 60 front and 80 rear.

I've also attached a pic of the trailer hitched up, WDH engaged.

Thanks for responding and for any other info you can share.

Your issue is a LOOOOONG TT, add to that a shorter wheelbase short bed truck. You'd have way less issues if you'd have opted for a long bed,long wheelbase truck.

A pic of the trailer hooked up with weight distribution bars NOT installed would be helpful. It needs to be a wee bit nose down with the bars unhooked. One inch of height can make a huge difference.

Any long TT (bumper pull) will be hard to manage unless the tow vehicle is very heavy and has a very long wheelbase. You'd probably have fewer issues if a heavy diesel were under the hood.

Looking at the scale numbers, I tend to think it would tow a bit better if you removed some tension from the WDH bars. Try 1 notch or 1 link less, not sure how it's set up.

[mistercee]

Originally Posted by kdauto

Your issue is a LOOOOONG TT, add to that a shorter wheelbase short bed truck. You'd have way less issues if you'd have opted for a long bed,long wheelbase truck.

A pic of the trailer hooked up with weight distribution bars NOT installed would be helpful. It needs to be a wee bit nose down with the bars unhooked. One inch of height can make a huge difference.

Any long TT (bumper pull) will be hard to manage unless the tow vehicle is very heavy and has a very long wheelbase. You'd probably have fewer issues if a heavy diesel were under the hood.

Looking at the scale numbers, I tend to think it would tow a bit better if you removed some tension from the WDH bars. Try 1 notch or 1 link less, not sure how it's set up.

Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate the response. In the back of my mind, I was sort of thinking that this might just be what I have to deal with having such a long a** trailer.

I am confused by the two bold statements though, as they seem to accomplish opposing goals. A heavier diesel engine would automatically give me more weight on the front axle of the truck, while lessening the tension on the WDH bars (for the Equal-i-Zer hitch that's using less washer(s) or lowering the L-bracket position) would remove weight from the front axle.

Can you elaborate on why transferring less weight to the front axle (based on my CAT results) is an option?

Thanks again!

[DR60]

Just as an experiment, move all the weight you can to the front of the trailer. Electric cords, hoses, sewer connections, move the clothing from the bedroom up to the living area up front. If possible, remove the rack from the back of the trailer. See if that makes a difference, and then add fresh water. I still think weight balance is the problem.
If you have a local scale it would be worth the investment. If not there are ways to check the changes to the tongue weight with a bathroom scale.

Once you have confirmed that it can be fixed with balance, you may want to move the axles for a better ride. Good luck DR

[mistercee]

Originally Posted by DR60

Just as an experiment, move all the weight you can to the front of the trailer. Electric cords, hoses, sewer connections, move the clothing from the bedroom up to the living area up front. If possible, remove the rack from the back of the trailer. See if that makes a difference, and then add fresh water. I still think weight balance is the problem.
If you have a local scale it would be worth the investment. If not there are ways to check the changes to the tongue weight with a bathroom scale.

Once you have confirmed that it can be fixed with balance, you may want to move the axles for a better ride. Good luck DR

Thanks, that is the plan for Tuesday morning when we move on. Can't change the cargo rack (this model really is deficient with storage options) but definitely going to try the FW tank fill and moving other odds and ends to the trailer front.

Appreciate the feedback.

[kdauto]

Originally Posted by mistercee

Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate the response. In the back of my mind, I was sort of thinking that this might just be what I have to deal with having such a long a** trailer.

I am confused by the two bold statements though, as they seem to accomplish opposing goals. A heavier diesel engine would automatically give me more weight on the front axle of the truck, while lessening the tension on the WDH bars (for the Equal-i-Zer hitch that's using less washer(s) or lowering the L-bracket position) would remove weight from the front axle.

Can you elaborate on why transferring less weight to the front axle (based on my CAT results) is an option?

Thanks again!

A long a** trailer like that will always be a handful. Honestly, I feel with anything over 30' one should start thinking about moving up to a 5th wheel, it's night and day.

A heavier diesel up front would plant the front end more, and you'd likely less feel it floating up front. That said, my a** isn't in the driver's seat and it could well be the rear of the truck being swung around like a toy by that trailer.

The other comment on hitch height with unloaded bars: I learned early on that weight on the rear is important. As a kid, riding a motocross through deep puddles or slimy mud at speed, I had my hands full. I spoke to a younger kid, a pro motocross rider, and he said to throttle out, and sit firmly on the back of the seat instead of riding the footpegs. It worked!

Many guys just hate seeing the rear of their "macho" pickups sag even an inch. It's ridiculous, OEMs factor this in, and on mine it takes a good 2"+ before the helper spring (stage 2) comes into contact. Adding bags or suspension aids in most cases is stupid. Some just create problem. Adding that weight pre-tension, then measure up front wheelwell height beofre/after hitching to see the difference. Now you can tension the bars, usually gaining back about 1/2 of the lift in the front. If the front wheelwell raised 2" with the trailer, you'd like to get that to 1" with the bars. I'd then suggest you gibe it a thorough road test loaded as if camping. Get it to 60 MPH, and then increase in 2MPH increments until you hit your regular cruising speed. I hope you're not trying to hold 70-75MPH with that long setup? If it seems decent, I'd redo the same CAT scale routine you posted to confirm axle weights.

I did the TT thing 6+ years. I was fed up of lugging the heavy WDH each time, and tensioning the bars was a PITA for me. I am so glad I swapped everything for the 5er route. You might want to do the same in a few years.

[Dave Pelletier]

Good advice so far IMO.

I concur that the 36'8" length is the primary issue.....the tongue weight could be more and since your truck has lots of payload capacity, adding more can only help IMO. Rockwoods have their axles close to the center of the trailer in order to lighten tongue weight to appeal to more buyers; this does not help stability.

I would remove that rear box and put whatever you have in it in the truck bed, is 36'8" not long enough?

As long as the FW tank is forward of axle center, travel with a full FW tank and make sure you drain the black and grey before hitting the highway.

Yes a 176" wb would help, as would DRW's and a diesel but you hopefully you can get it dialed in with your truck......as long as the trailer is designed to be inherently stable; not all are created equally. If adding TW doesn't do it, a PP or Hensley hitch may help.

2 cents,
Dave

[Dieselguy4]

Allot of good info but I would pump your front tires up it 75 PSI or 80 PSI. My Dodge Ram 3500 Mega cab felt squishy on the front end with 65 PSI in the tires. I played with my WDH but didn't help. I put my front tires to 80 PSI. It towed allot better. You do need more tongue weight to help. I have been light on the tongue and it was a white knuckle tow