Confused, Re: Towing Limits

[rskeans]

Originally Posted by justafordguy

You are 100% correct, by adding the same overload spring the 1 ton has or air bags to level the truck, the 3/4 ton is just as safe towing the same load as the 1 ton.

In the 1999-2001 time frame the F250 had smaller tires than the F350.

[jesilvas]

It seems as though some people have not built trucks before, I guess?

You can get a 3/4 truck with different options; tires/wheels, axles with different packages, etc. Same with a 1 ton but you can get HEAVIER options with that truck; i.e. axles, springs, brakes. It all depends on the vehicle year, make and model. So SOME years/models may have had little difference, some have LOTS of differences.

[wa8yxm]

Originally Posted by Snowbrdboy

I seem to be getting conflicting information regarding towing capability for 5th wheel trailers. Every weekend, I see F-250's pulling 40' toyhaulers?

Let me explain how that happens...Turns out there are two or three types of folks who pull 5ers

One type KNOWS the towing limits of his vehicle.. or he buys a Trail-Hauler (Semi tractor converted to RV puller) and does not care cause he knows he can tow it.. I like these folks

The next is unsure so he asks folks who have experience,, I am no sure if this group is where you fit, or if you may be in the above group.. But again.. I like these folks

The third group says to the salesman: "I don't know...My little F-150/Chevy-10 looks a bit small to be pulling all that trailer"

And the salesman says: "NO PROBLEM".

And those folks... SCARE ME

[Gordon Dewald]

IMO you can beef things up. More horsepower, bigger tires, heavier springs, air bags, etc but there still will be a weak spot.

https://search.yahoo.com/search?p=fo...12&type=198484

There is a bridge for sale someplace for the group who think and insist that manufacturers overbuild trucks. GM was hauled before Congress to explain why they did not upgrade an $8.00 ignition switch they knew about for years. Perhaps they dont know they are overbuilding by that much?

Now about that bridge. Cash or certified cheque only please.

[marcham]

Keep in mind that a 1 ton can be built with the same components as a 3/4 ton, but that depends on the build sheet. A reduced gvwr 3500 may have the same brakes and axle shafts as a 2500 but the full payload 3500 may not. Just looking at websites that sell parts doesn't tell you the whole story, you have to lookup the actual part nos on the trucks to see the differences.

Every 1 ton I looked at in the last 6 months weighted more than the 3/4 ton with the exact same interior options /trim level, usually to the tune of several hundred pounds.

The Ford body builder guide details many of the differences, don't know about other brands. It seems rear axles, springs and shock absorbers are the usual differentiators. Airbags won't do much to improve the yield strength of those components.

[JIMNLIN]

Fords body builder specs shows the 10000 GVWR F250 has the same specs in every department as the 11500 GVWR F350 SRW; exception is the rear spring pack.
Axles shafts and brakes are the same.

In fact Ford markets a F350 SRW with dual GVWRs with a 10k or a 11.2k for the exact same truck. Your choice

Ford also markets around 12 different GVWRs from 10k on up to 11.5k in the F350 SRW line. The only difference in these trucks is a 7000 lb or a 6730 lb or a 6290 lb rear spring pack.
Ford, as does GM and Ram, offer higher rated 18" or 20" tires and wheels as options or OEM on their 250/350 SRW line.

If the OP wants tp pull a 14k-15k 5th wheel trailer with his '14 F250 he will have to add another spring in the rear spring pack or bags as he mentioned or some type of aftermarket rear suspension help. His F250 has the Platinum package which may include the higher rated 18" or 20" wheels and tires.

Looks like the OP says he's going to look at TTs..... several days ago.

[marcham]

Originally Posted by JIMNLIN

Ford also markets around 12 different GVWRs from 10k on up to 11.5k in the F350 SRW line. The only difference in these trucks is a 7000 lb or a 6730 lb or a 6290 lb rear spring pack..

Page 85, axle ratings are very different between the 3/4 and 1 ton. 6200 lbs vs 7280 lbs. The axle shafts are larger on the f350. The tube may be the same size but the shaft is larger on the heavier truck.

[jesilvas]

Originally Posted by JIMNLIN

Fords body builder specs shows the 10000 GVWR F250 has the same specs in every department as the 11500 GVWR F350 SRW; exception is the rear spring pack.
Axles shafts and brakes are the same.

Originally Posted by marcham

Page 85, axle ratings are very different between the 3/4 and 1 ton. 6200 lbs vs 7280 lbs. The axle shafts are larger on the f350. The tube may be the same size but the shaft is larger on the heavier truck.

Again, you guys are saying they are the same axle or not. On some they are and some aren't, so you are both right, but don't think so.

[sknight]

I love these threads, though this one has been calmer than most.

The axles, it depends. My SRW truck came equipped with the Dana 80, which is the exact same diff as the DRW 3500, 35 spline axles, along with the big disc brakes and the big spring package. Mine also has the HO engine, six speed, HD towing, etc. Loaded for bear it sits level, tows beautifully, stops well, and is not worrisome at all even when in the mountains, going down the interstate passing and being passed by big trucks, crosswinds and all. Would a DRW be more stable? I'm sure. Would a later model with the huge payload numbers be better? I won't disagree.

As weighed, loaded out full of water with me, I'm 280ish pounds over my payload rating, but 700 under my tow rating, and I'm well under the axle rating.

Most of the RV crashes I've seen online and in person have had other factors, or were a good combination, such as a dually towing a 30' travel trailer, or a stone stock coach such as the one that just happened in Baton Rouge where the front tire popped and the driver lost control. They're out there, crashes where the trailer overpowered the truck and it's a wonder they made it far as they did, but the very vast majority are safe, and if they're over usually the driver knows and tries to offset it. As I said, I'm over on payload, I tend to carry nothing in the bed of the truck if I can help it, only carry water if I need it, etc.

Minding speed and good driving habits are bigger problems than crossing the weight line by a few hundred pounds. I witnessed a fifth wheel crash, late model DRW, moderate sized trailer, he ran all over the back of a car then into the retaining wall because he was following too closely and when traffic stacked up he couldn't stop it.

I'm not saying to ignore the rules and ratings, but I believe there's bigger problems than two passengers worth of weight.

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by wandering1

Dont install airbags, or other rear suspension modifications to tow a heavier trailer or more weight. The components that determine the towing ability of your tow vehicle are engine, transmission, rear end ratio, suspension system, and brakes. You cant change the towing capability by adding a crutch. If you need to haul more weight then do it right and look at the towing specs for the tow vehicle and pick a configuration that will handle the load.

Actually it's the lowest rated component of any of the associated gear up to and including the frame. Even the bearing ratings come into play.

[fvstringpicker]

Originally Posted by sknight

The axles, it depends. My SRW truck came equipped with the Dana 80, which is the exact same diff as the DRW 3500, 35 spline axles, along with the big disc brakes and the big spring package. Mine also has the HO engine, six speed, HD towing, etc.

Its the same situation with the axles (SRW) on a 2009 GMC 2500 and 3500 HD (and most of the rest of the drive train with the exceptions of the rear springs. This is evidenced by the same part numbers. I'm not advocating overloading either vehicle. Other than the beefier rear springs, there doesn't appear to be a hell of a lot of difference in the vehicles; probably accounting for little variation in the price between similar equipped models.

[chertz]

This whole topic is so terribly frustrating / confusing!

Take for example my truck... 2005 Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel / auto. QCLB 4x4. Truck has a GCWR of 20,000 and GVWR of 9000. Same axles, same brakes, same everything as its 3500 sister.

My truck on a Cat scale, loaded for travel w/ full family weights 7,660 lbs. Front axle weight is 4720, rear axle weighs 2940.

FAWR = 5200 lbs / RAWR = 6020lbs.

Lots of room on the rear axle right... Not so fast... Just 1340lbs of tongue weight in the bed would put me over my GVWR...

So basically if I were to follow the letter of the law, and assuming a 20% tongue weight, The largest fifth wheel I could pull would be a max weight of 6,700 lbs.

LOL... Yep... roll that one around in your brains the next time you see that truck pulling a 40' DRV.

[justafordguy]

Originally Posted by chertz

LOL... Yep... roll that one around in your brains the next time you see that truck pulling a 40' DRV.

Today at lunch I saw a brand new 36'+ 3 slide 5er being pulled by a TOYOTA!

[JIMNLIN]

Page 85, axle ratings are very different between the 3/4 and 1 ton. 6200 lbs vs 7280 lbs. The axle shafts are larger on the f350. The tube may be the same size but the shaft is larger on the heavier truck.

That axle shaft diameter is a known typo from Ford.
Ford folks tell us the last column should go under the Dana S111 and the second column of numbers with the 37 spline goes under the Dana 80 in the DRW truck.
The only RAWR Fords shows for the 2015 F250/F350 SRW 6.7 diesel option are on pages #73 down to page #77.

Axles on a full floater don't carry weight anyway. They just turn the rear gears.

That a particular F350 SRW may have a Dana 80 is a moot point. Hell lots of older 2500 Dodge/Cummins 4.10 gears with the NV5600 uses the Dana 80.