Diesel vs Gasoline

[TXiceman]

We have been fulll time for over 6 years with our Ford DRW diesel. It is our only transportation, but about 50% of the mileage is with the 19,000 lb trailer in tow. The rest of the time it is used as a daily driver...grocery store, sight seeing, etc.

The newer diesels are prone to sooting the EGR cooler if too much low speed and baby it driving. A diesel mechanic will tell you to drive he truck like you stole it, so get down on it getting on the highway.

Ken

[tuffr2]

The new diesel engines are a work of art. They are trying to meet ever tougher emissions while producing gobs of power.
You can go to YouTube and see the very artfully designed exhaust system.

Anyway there are a lot of moving parts with scientist and engineers trying to reduce diesel emissions. New, even higher pressure injection nozzles trying to get more fuel burned and less soot produced. New additives to diesel fuel to keep high pressure injectors from clogging. This reduces the number of regens needed.

Knowing what I know now I would change oil at 3,000 - 4,000 miles instead of 5,000 miles. I would also have driven my truck harder.

Anyway go to YouTube and search on 'Diesel SCR' or 'Diesel exhaust system'

Oh, all diesel vehicles have the same issue from BMW to Volkswagen to Ford, Ram, and GM. That issue is emissions and what to do with all the soot from diesel engines.

Gasoline engines have the same issue but because they produce so much less soot the issue is smaller.

I have thrown gasoline on a fire and you see a big puff of black smoke but never thrown diesel on a fire. Hey, YouTube will show me what happens I bet. I am guessing a lot more black smoke.

[kdauto]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

The new diesel engines are a work of art. They are trying to meet ever tougher emissions while producing gobs of power.
You can go to YouTube and see the very artfully designed exhaust system.

Anyway there are a lot of moving parts with scientist and engineers trying to reduce diesel emissions. New, even higher pressure injection nozzles trying to get more fuel burned and less soot produced. New additives to diesel fuel to keep high pressure injectors from clogging. This reduces the number of regens needed.

Knowing what I know now I would change oil at 3,000 - 4,000 miles instead of 5,000 miles. I would also have driven my truck harder.

Anyway go to YouTube and search on 'Diesel SCR' or 'Diesel exhaust system'

Oh, all diesel vehicles have the same issue from BMW to Volkswagen to Ford, Ram, and GM. That issue is emissions and what to do with all the soot from diesel engines.

Gasoline engines have the same issue but because they produce so much less soot the issue is smaller.

I have thrown gasoline on a fire and you see a big puff of black smoke but never thrown diesel on a fire. Hey, YouTube will show me what happens I bet. I am guessing a lot more black smoke.

Soot and particulates is a small part of the problem. Very high NOx emissions is a nig problem on diesels and it will get very tough to meet with current fuels.

[NevadaNick]

The def cleans up the nox.

[kdauto]

Originally Posted by NevadaNick

The def cleans up the nox.

Egr also is a big part of NOx reduction. DEF certainly is needed for a large part of NOx reduction,sure. I think once they crack down on diesel engine emissions they'll find it very hard to get things much cleaner than they are today. I have a feeling the only way to attain future emissions regs is adding electric motors for "clean"' torque under heavy loads such as taking off from a stop or climbing hills.

Gas has a bit more flexibilty as the fuel is cleaner to start with.

[randomledder]

Originally Posted by hillbilly3

The new diesels do have a lot of power, but the DEF is really taking a toll on reliability! I know a lot of people that have them, and hear a lot of complaints about all big three. High reving is not so much a big deal on gas motors anymore, commercial generators run at 3600 rpm all day long, my Silverado very seldom gets above 3000 when towing my TT. Usually about 2600 at freeway speeds in hilly country. I have the 5.3 V8. The 460 in my 36' class A towing a Suzuki sidekick keeps freeway speeds without a sweat, but then its modified a little with a Banks Power Pack.

Very few commercial generators are two pole that run at 3600 rpm. The few I have seen have small natural gas or propane engines.

[hillbilly3]

Originally Posted by randomledder

Very few commercial generators are two pole that run at 3600 rpm. The few I have seen have small natural gas or propane engines.

Funny, see them all the time. 60-100 kw. The diesels are usually 1800 rpm. Have installed quite a few of them.

https://www.norwall.com/products/Gen...-240V-3-Phase/

[bobbin]

Gas vs Diesel is no longer easy to decide.

The emissions requirements are killing the light duty segment. EGR is a major problem: recycling the exhaust means the EGR systems adds non-combustible soot into the fuel mixture. This robs the engine of what it needs most: clean air and fuel. EGR actually increases soot production. EGR may be relevant for gas engines, but its benefits for diesel are very controversial.

Cummins has designed new, no-egr engines, and new exhaust systems, but doubtful these will come into the USA market anytime soon. More the pity for consumers.

With current tech and standards, the advantages to diesel are far less than years long ago. With DPF, a diesel needs to run many hours at optimum rpm, to avoid DPF problems and damage. At about $15k to replace a DPF system, diesel poses distinct disadvantages and risks.

People think they want a diesel for fuel economy and longevity; but this is fast becoming moot. The Nissan XD diesel achieves only 10% better fuel economy than the XD gas model, and the gas engine life rivals the diesel. The new Mazda 'sky' engine achieves efficiency equal to diesel, and very good low-end torque, which are games changers; but this engine too may be a long time coming for light duty engines.

Overall, with current tech, I would advise drivers to assess their needs carefully. Currently, diesel makes sense for me, because I rarely venture away from mountainous areas and I drive for long periods; so the diesel torque, economy, and exhaust brake are advantages. But if I were rarely in such areas and drove shorter distances, a diesel would not have great advantages.

[randomledder]

Originally Posted by hillbilly3

Funny, see them all the time. 60-100 kw. The diesels are usually 1800 rpm. Have installed quite a few of them.

https://www.norwall.com/products/Gen...-240V-3-Phase/

My mistake. I didn’t know Generac did that with the v10. Somehow I’m not surprised.

[Elisavaet]

Originally Posted by NHenderson

Hi everybody,

I know it’s a dumb question, but I’d like your opinion and expertise please? This vehicle will be my everyday vehicle. An in town “let’s go to the grocery store” “I have a doctors appointment” vehicle. We’re only planning to use a travel trailer about six times a year five of those times will probably be trips 3 to 6 hours away with one long vacation about 19 hours away each year. I don’t envision using it much more than that as my husband is still working his business full-time and plans to for the next 5 to 10 years.

What do you suggest diesel or gas?

And if you have truck preferences, I would love your opinion on that as well. I’d like to keep it at 250/2500. We’re pulling a 2012 30’ Palomino puma about 7000 pounds dry and a little over 11,100 GVWR.

Thanks,
Natasha

Natasha,

First, it’s a good question

I love my 2019 Chevy diesel crew cab dually. I had it in the body shop and got a Ram 1500 with the gas V8 and hated it. The diesel “cruises”. The gas motor seems to want to get away from you. I was constantly exceeding the speed limit accidentally. With my big diesel dually I almost never do that. The gas engine seemed touchy. All that said...

You’re not towing enough to justify the cost or maintenance of a modern diesel. I got mine cause I plan on upgrading my 5th wheel to. 17 to 20 thousand pound unit this year. If I was just towing eleven thousand I’d go with. 2500 gas engine for sure. If I was towing 11k ALL the time I might go diesel... but a few times per year, no.

Mine was in the shop twice in the first few thousand miles to have injectors and an injector pump replaced. I just had it in at 20,000 to get a glow plug replaced. On about four occasions during that time a message pops up on the screen telling me it’s cleanin the exhaust filter and I have to keep driving. So I’d drive for fifteen or twenty minutes down the freeway and back, held hostage by my truck. Several times I’ve almost been stranded cause there isn’t a DEF gage and it comes up with about 225 and tells you it’s about to quit. Then about ten min later telling you shut down is imminent. I spent the night in a parking lot once in freezing weather waiting for a convenience store to open to get DEF. I was in my 5th wheel but it made me mad. I carry extra now, but if it comes up after dark in the mountains when it’s raining on a twisty road with no shoulder, what are you gonna do?

Diesel engine power has just about doubled in the past decade for the same size engine. They ar high strung like a thoroughbred horse. Great at the track, but you don’t want to ride them in a parade.

If you’ve got the cash and the patience or you NEED the towing capacity, sure, you need a diesel. Otherwise I’d get one of the three big trucks with their big V8 gas engine, and try to keep it under the speed limit.

I love the big truck, enough to put up with her quirks, but I live full time in my fiver and want something more residential. So bigger. If I was going to camp even ten to twenty times per year including a week or two long trip I’d have got a gasser.

One other thing..
You can’t get a larger or aux fuel tank with a gasser. With a diesel you can get a larger or aux tank so you don’t have to snake into fuel stops so often. I have my plans set on a 70 gal in bed tank that fits under a canister sliding bed cover. I couldn’t do that with a gasser. A 106 gal of fuel will mean only one required obstacle course to get fuel between Vegas and Portland to see my granddaughter. That might be enough by itself to push me into a diesel even with an 11k trailer.

Best of luck regardless!
Kate

[kdauto]

Originally Posted by Elisavaet

Natasha,

First, it’s a good question

I love my 2019 Chevy diesel crew cab dually. I had it in the body shop and got a Ram 1500 with the gas V8 and hated it. The diesel “cruises”. The gas motor seems to want to get away from you. I was constantly exceeding the speed limit accidentally. With my big diesel dually I almost never do that. The gas engine seemed touchy. All that said...

You’re not towing enough to justify the cost or maintenance of a modern diesel. I got mine cause I plan on upgrading my 5th wheel to. 17 to 20 thousand pound unit this year. If I was just towing eleven thousand I’d go with. 2500 gas engine for sure. If I was towing 11k ALL the time I might go diesel... but a few times per year, no.

Mine was in the shop twice in the first few thousand miles to have injectors and an injector pump replaced. I just had it in at 20,000 to get a glow plug replaced. On about four occasions during that time a message pops up on the screen telling me it’s cleanin the exhaust filter and I have to keep driving. So I’d drive for fifteen or twenty minutes down the freeway and back, held hostage by my truck. Several times I’ve almost been stranded cause there isn’t a DEF gage and it comes up with about 225 and tells you it’s about to quit. Then about ten min later telling you shut down is imminent. I spent the night in a parking lot once in freezing weather waiting for a convenience store to open to get DEF. I was in my 5th wheel but it made me mad. I carry extra now, but if it comes up after dark in the mountains when it’s raining on a twisty road with no shoulder, what are you gonna do?

Diesel engine power has just about doubled in the past decade for the same size engine. They ar high strung like a thoroughbred horse. Great at the track, but you don’t want to ride them in a parade.

If you’ve got the cash and the patience or you NEED the towing capacity, sure, you need a diesel. Otherwise I’d get one of the three big trucks with their big V8 gas engine, and try to keep it under the speed limit.

I love the big truck, enough to put up with her quirks, but I live full time in my fiver and want something more residential. So bigger. If I was going to camp even ten to twenty times per year including a week or two long trip I’d have got a gasser.

One other thing..
You can’t get a larger or aux fuel tank with a gasser. With a diesel you can get a larger or aux tank so you don’t have to snake into fuel stops so often. I have my plans set on a 70 gal in bed tank that fits under a canister sliding bed cover. I couldn’t do that with a gasser. A 106 gal of fuel will mean only one required obstacle course to get fuel between Vegas and Portland to see my granddaughter. That might be enough by itself to push me into a diesel even with an 11k trailer.

Best of luck regardless!
Kate

I installed an auxiliary tank on my GMC dually gasser. 40 gallon auxiliary added to the 34 gallon OEM tank. really simple setup that I fabricated, no extra pump, just gravity fed and controlled by a solenoid. I can go 800 to 1100 kms with 13 000lb depending on conditions.

Are you saying your 2019 needed injectors before 20 000 miles? That would really suck! A glow plug? already?

Your experience sure reinforces my thoughts on a diesel for my current usage.

[Elisavaet]

Originally Posted by kdauto

I installed an auxiliary tank on my GMC dually gasser. 40 gallon auxiliary added to the 34 gallon OEM tank. really simple setup that I fabricated, no extra pump, just gravity fed and controlled by a solenoid. I can go 800 to 1100 kms with 13 000lb depending on conditions.

Are you saying your 2019 needed injectors before 20 000 miles? That would really suck! A glow plug? already?

Your experience sure reinforces my thoughts on a diesel for my current usage.

Yup. 3 injectors at about 1200 miles then another and the high pressure pump at about 2000 and the glow plug this past week at just under twenty k. Like I said, if I was willing to live full time in an 11k trailer I’d have a gasser. But I’m not, so I don’t.

[jjackrash]

Originally Posted by Elisavaet

On about four occasions during that time a message pops up on the screen telling me it’s cleanin the exhaust filter and I have to keep driving. So I’d drive for fifteen or twenty minutes down the freeway and back, held hostage by my truck.
Kate

Is this something new on the L5P? This never happened on my '13 or '16 2500 Duramax that I am aware of; I put about 50k on each and used both for my daily driver. The only things these two trucks ever needed was an oil service and one fuel filter each when the computer told me it was time.

I have about 2k miles on my 2019 3500 DRW Duramax (that I also use for my daily) and am not looking forward to getting this message.

[tuffr2]

Those seem like premature problems. Almost like you got some bad fuel with some water in it.

That is a good story about being stuck in the cold in a parking lot waiting for a store to open so you could buy some DEF. Fun to look back anyway.

In 2012 I had a shutdown message in x miles on my Ford. Lucky I was close to a Ford garage and I was driving solo. The diesel tech fixed it with a lap top and not a wrench. This was back in the early days of using DEF.