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Old 11-27-2020, 07:47 AM   #1
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Electric Trucks?

Since they all seem to be heading our way soon. At what point would you consider an EV truck? What would be your minimum specs to tow or 5th wheel? I'd like a 500 mile towing range. You can get a spare fuel tank so you should be able to get a spare battery pack at some point. Electric wouldn't care about going uphill except to use more battery. We are three years out from our expected purchase of a 3500 diesel dually. If we are stopping at rest areas for us and the three dogs, we spend 30 minutes anyway. We could be charging up. I could even use my generator if I had to. Thoughts?
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Old 11-27-2020, 08:00 AM   #2
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I'm waiting for the price to drop 20k until they're competitive with gas.
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Old 11-27-2020, 08:27 AM   #3
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I will believe it when I see it. I know when I tow my mpg is about half of solo driving. When I go up a mountain that gets cut in half again. It takes a lot of energy to tow a 10,000lb or 17,000lb trailer up a mountain.

I think current battery packs in cars usually last about 12 years like the Toyota Prius hybrid.

Does any car, Tesla for example go 500 miles? I don't think so.

So how are you going to charge your electric truck towing a 40' 5th wheel?

I think I will wait until the infrastructure is built before I buy.
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Old 11-27-2020, 08:41 AM   #4
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For a short term plan, the 3500 diesel is about your only current option for heavy towing. Elec trucks are coming but they are probably 5-10 years out before going into mass production. Besides, you don't want to own a new tech truck until they have had a couple of years of trial and error on the roads allowing the manufactures to get the bugs worked out.
As far as infrastructure concerns go, carry a generator for emergency charging if you are concerned. After all, we are talking about a truck with a bed.
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Old 11-27-2020, 08:43 AM   #5
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Regardless of recharging time and travel range, electric trucks would be 100x better than any fossil fuel burning trucks. Just look at the Tesla semi acceleration with 80,000 lbs, Iím impressed. And EVs are very simple design and so much less moving parts. But Iím not getting one until we have decent infrastructure.
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Old 11-27-2020, 09:03 AM   #6
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Charging stations

I've looked at charging stations. There are many thousands throughout the US but I'm not sure on the easy in, easy out with a 5th wheel. I have dozens in my county alone. Gas stations, Meijers, City and County offices to name a few. More are being added weekly so I don't think that's a problem. Rest areas might be out of luck for now but hopefully that would change for easy in and out. It seems like 45 minutes gives you a 50-70% charge at the high speed chargers. Hopefully they start working on a universal plug.
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Old 11-27-2020, 09:58 AM   #7
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https://youtu.be/DVSHIZihESk

They took a model X up the Eisenhower Hill West of Denver, after leaving Denver with a full charge and had to be rescued...

300+mile range turned to about 80 with a trailer...
It ain't ready for long distance towing, yet.
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Old 11-27-2020, 10:04 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirtate View Post
https://youtu.be/DVSHIZihESk

They took a model X up the Eisenhower Hill West of Denver, after leaving Denver with a full charge and had to be rescued...

300+mile range turned to about 80 with a trailer...
It ain't ready for long distance towing, yet.
Youíll need a 2021 PowerBoost F-150 go alone to charge the Tesla.
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Old 11-27-2020, 10:12 AM   #9
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Oh Wow ! EV will really take over ! no more fossil fuels ! NOT IN MY LIFETIME!
and for sure not in 4 to 5 years .Golf carts have been around a long time and the best kind to own is still a gasoline model ! Check it out !
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Old 11-27-2020, 10:24 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by swampdog2 View Post
Oh Wow ! EV will really take over ! no more fossil fuels ! NOT IN MY LIFETIME!
and for sure not in 4 to 5 years .Golf carts have been around a long time and the best kind to own is still a gasoline model ! Check it out !
The trend is that EVs are going to take over, not overnight, but definitely in 20-30 years.
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Old 11-27-2020, 11:21 AM   #11
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I wouldn't consider one until there's sufficient charging facilitates where we camp. There's never going to be 240V charge stations up in the mtns in forest service campgrounds. Even St parks would be hard pressed to offer charging. RV parks may offer charging but when and how many?
Towing any camp trailer with any elec vehicle is still a long ways off.
But I'd buy an elec truck if I didn't camp.
I just don't see it as a viable alternative in the near future. (5-10 years)
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Old 11-27-2020, 11:42 AM   #12
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It's a motorcycle, but some of the issues would be the same for an electric truck at this time. https://jalopnik.com/i-took-a-harley...-ev-1845749463.

Lack of charging facilities, time to recharge, finding charging points busy/out of service, severely reduced range in mountains are some of the problems yet to be solved. There is also a video of a Tesla 3 towing a 6,000lb Airstream "with no problem" That's 3x the tow rating of that vehicle. https://camperreport.com/can-electric-vehicles-tow-rvs/

Electric vehicles still have a long way until wide adoption. City delivery and local transportation are better use cases long before towing TTs. Although, having been to a few boat ramps, it will be interesting to see what happens when a Tesla rolls back into the water....
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Old 11-27-2020, 12:01 PM   #13
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This post is an example of the success of marketing and unfamiliarity by most people of the concept of energy density. People see a range figure or a recharge time and treat it as absolute. While there are some DOT standards for range claims it's highly dependent on the actual use. Add a headwind, some weight or even change the weather and "your mileage may vary".

Consider the Tesla semi truck. Hasn't even been commercially available yet but people consider it a product. The battery that will come with it depends on how it's ordered but to carry a 50' loaded trailer takes a lot of energy. Some estimates are some will have a 1MWh battery pack. People think they could build an RV on a chassis like this (you could) and charging it would be as simple as plugging into a 50A plug in the RV park (you could). But if you run the numbers, charging a 1MWh battery from a 50A outlet would take a *week* to do, and that's 24/7 with no other loads. So if you think you're running your A/C or other house loads while you're camping, it's going to take that much longer. No doubt if RV EV's ever take off there will be charging stations with greater capacity but just making the point that EV's aren't like a cell phone where you just "connect up" from time to time and it "fills up". Moving megawatts around takes specific infrastructure and secondarily, that energy has to come from somewhere. A park or campground full of EV RV's would require a power infrastructure that doesn't exist. And what about being out in the boonies somewhere? You could only travel half as far as you can get back from on a single charge. With a gas or diesel vehicle you can go hundreds of miles and refueling takes but a few minutes. With an EV you're stuck to power stations, or extended recharge times at conventional outlets.

About the only benefit I see to an EV RV is you end up with a honkin' house battery, a 1MWh battey would run my entire S&B house for about three months. Maybe for some, charging, traveling and boondocking with an EV RV could be managed successfully. But at the end of the day what's the advantage over what's out there today? Is the goal to see and experience things, or manage the systems minutia of the conveyance? So before you decide that electric cars or trucks are the "answer", first know what the question is.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM
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Old 11-27-2020, 12:09 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by steven880 View Post
Since they all seem to be heading our way soon. At what point would you consider an EV truck? What would be your minimum specs to tow or 5th wheel? I'd like a 500 mile towing range. You can get a spare fuel tank so you should be able to get a spare battery pack at some point. Electric wouldn't care about going uphill except to use more battery. We are three years out from our expected purchase of a 3500 diesel dually. If we are stopping at rest areas for us and the three dogs, we spend 30 minutes anyway. We could be charging up. I could even use my generator if I had to. Thoughts?
What size is your generator? 10K? That would give you ~5kW’s in 30 minutes. Maybe good for 5 miles in a truck towing a trailer.

For 500 miles of towing range, you’ll need at least a 500kWh battery.

The 50A outlet at the campground will power a 40A charger. That will charge at a rate of ~10kW/hr. If you need 400kW it will take 40 hours of charging time. You’ll need another 30A or 50A outlet for the trailer.

I own a PHEV. It gives me the option of using gas or electricity. I primarily use electricity as it is a lower cost option in my area. The car has the ability to charge the batteries while driving with the ICE. Owners in some parts of the country charge the batteries exclusively with the gas engine because it costs less than charging with electricity at the house. Then they drive on electric until the battery needs to be charged again. What do you think a campground might charge for electricity?

EV range will be reduced significantly in cold temperatures. A 40% reduction is common below 40F. Battery degradation will also occur over time. Expect 5-10% in the first year and a bit less each year after that. Battery warranties range from 8-10 years. Typically, a claim will not trigger unless the battery is less than 70% in its original capacity. Manufacturers are fairly confident that the battery will remain above that level during the warranty period, but it is possible to have a battery that has lost 20% or more of its capacity. You’re on your own after that.

One owner recently had the 17kWh battery, in the same PHEV as ours, replaced under warranty. Cost without the warranty would have been $6500. That’s for a 17kWh battery.

Given the current battery technology and charging infrastructure, I’d opt for the diesel.
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