Exceeding 80% of tow capacity

[NDIrish]

But real "weight police" and real attorneys will tell you that when it comes to enforcement, court, and civil depositions, everything is taken into account and the weakest link is used as the nail in the coffin. If you are over on your GVWR, tire rating, axle rating, wheel (rim) rating, registration rating, or license class, this will be what the prosecution uses against you and you will be left to defend yourself.

Yes you can probably run overloaded for thousands of miles and never get caught or break anything, or you can pull out of the rv dealer and get stopped or crash.

Also, if it's a high profile case and you severely injured or killed someone, one thing that the real attorneys or real weight police can do is preserve all of your social media and online accounts. They can see that you posted this question and say in court that you already knew that you were overloaded, and had concerns about it, were told not to do it, and did it anyway.

Originally Posted by laj

Old-Biscuit is absolutely correct. to many self appointed “ weight police “
that also think their attorneys. they give chicken little a panic attack.

[Itchytoe]

Originally Posted by NDIrish

But real "weight police" and real attorneys will tell you that when it comes to enforcement, court, and civil depositions, everything is taken into account and the weakest link is used as the nail in the coffin. If you are over on your GVWR, tire rating, axle rating, wheel (rim) rating, registration rating, or license class, this will be what the prosecution uses against you and you will be left to defend yourself.

Proof? What you're talking about doesn't happen. It's pure speculation.

[laj]

Originally Posted by NDIrish

But real "weight police" and real attorneys will tell you that when it comes to enforcement, court, and civil depositions, everything is taken into account and the weakest link is used as the nail in the coffin. If you are over on your GVWR, tire rating, axle rating, wheel (rim) rating, registration rating, or license class, this will be what the prosecution uses against you and you will be left to defend yourself.

Yes you can probably run overloaded for thousands of miles and never get caught or break anything, or you can pull out of the rv dealer and get stopped or crash.

Also, if it's a high profile case and you severely injured or killed someone, one thing that the real attorneys or real weight police can do is preserve all of your social media and online accounts. They can see that you posted this question and say in court that you already knew that you were overloaded, and had concerns about it, were told not to do it, and did it anyway.

Mabel! if i’ve told you once i’ve told you a thousand times, you have to avoid those high fat, high cholesterol, greasy, sugary late night suppers. They create oxygen deprivation , stroke, heart attacks, and wild nightmares, along with rapid speculation. hope you get better.

[laj]

Originally Posted by Itchytoe

Proof? What you're talking about doesn't happen. It's pure speculation.

Itchytoe, never happen. If it were true they could point to specific statute code and number. specific precedent case and number.

Also how many states you hear whining about money? Assessing fines on this would be such a cash cow they would have to hire someone just to take the money to the bank. You would see weigh scales backed up so far with rv’s they couldn’t even get off the road.

[edaa53]

As I read auto design data it is common for front (F) and rear (R) gross axle limits (GAWRF + GAWRR) to exceed listed GVWR. Manufacturers recognize one can exceed an individual axle limit but not GVWR. Regards. Ed

[NDIrish]

In Pennsylvania, the specific sections are Title 75 (vehicle code)section 4942, 4943, and 4944. Also, RV,s are not required to go through scales here unless they are being hauled by a transport company; however, a Trooper or certified commonwealth employee can weigh any vehicle if they believe it exceeded any of the weight capacities of the vehicle(s)

As far as case numbers, look up any weight related citation at any of the MDJ's. They will be because the driver wasn't licensed for the proper class, the vehicle wasn't registered for the proper class, the GVWR was exceeded, the GAWR was exceeded, the max tire weight was exceeded, or they exceeded the weight limit of a road or bridge.

I'm trying to explain the actual law in not all, but some states. If you dont want to listen, you dont have to. I'm trying to help other people out. You dont have any legal experience in this so dont spread false info.

Originally Posted by laj

Itchytoe, never happen. If it were true they could point to specific statute code and number. specific precedent case and number.

Also how many states you hear whining about money? Assessing fines on this would be such a cash cow they would have to hire someone just to take the money to the bank. You would see weigh scales backed up so far with rv’s they couldn’t even get off the road.

[Itchytoe]

Originally Posted by NDIrish

In Pennsylvania, the specific sections are Title 75 (vehicle code)section 4942, 4943, and 4944. Also, RV,s are not required to go through scales here unless they are being hauled by a transport company; however, a Trooper or certified commonwealth employee can weigh any vehicle if they believe it exceeded any of the weight capacities of the vehicle(s)

As far as case numbers, look up any weight related citation at any of the MDJ's. They will be because the driver wasn't licensed for the proper class, the vehicle wasn't registered for the proper class, the GVWR was exceeded, the GAWR was exceeded, the max tire weight was exceeded, or they exceeded the weight limit of a road or bridge.

That has nothing to do with "real "weight police" and real attorneys will tell you that when it comes to enforcement, court, and civil depositions, everything is taken into account and the weakest link is used as the nail in the coffin." Try again.

Originally Posted by NDIrish

I'm trying to explain the actual law in not all, but some states. If you dont want to listen, you dont have to. I'm trying to help other people out. You dont have any legal experience in this so dont spread false info.

You also don't have any legal experience in this area. Don't spread false info. Acting like a Pennsylvania code applies anywhere other than Pennsylvania is deceptive, dishonest, and has no place here.

[NDIrish]

I should have clarified in my first post that I am speaking with 100% accuracy about Pennsylvania . I made the generalization because this is a law set by federal statute and if your state adopted those sections, then it is also a law in your state as well. Also, if you are traveling through a state that has adopted the above laws, they can be enforced on you as well.

I absolutely do have legal experience in this area. I also sat through several dispositions where there was a serious crash. Operator error and environmental factors were ruled out. The manufacturer of the vehicle, the manufacturers of the axle, suspension, steering parts, tire company and their attorneys all point the finger at what happened and who's fault it was. Weight was the main argument that everyone argued. In the end, the registered owner or his insurance company paid out

[Jshopes81]

Originally Posted by NDIrish

In Pennsylvania, the specific sections are Title 75 (vehicle code)section 4942, 4943, and 4944. Also, RV,s are not required to go through scales here unless they are being hauled by a transport company; however, a Trooper or certified commonwealth employee can weigh any vehicle if they believe it exceeded any of the weight capacities of the vehicle(s)

As far as case numbers, look up any weight related citation at any of the MDJ's. They will be because the driver wasn't licensed for the proper class, the vehicle wasn't registered for the proper class, the GVWR was exceeded, the GAWR was exceeded, the max tire weight was exceeded, or they exceeded the weight limit of a road or bridge.

I'm trying to explain the actual law in not all, but some states. If you dont want to listen, you dont have to. I'm trying to help other people out. You dont have any legal experience in this so dont spread false info.

In pennsylvania theyll site you for exceding REGISTERED gvwr, not manufacturers gvwr, just to be perfectly clear.

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by Itchytoe

It used to be like that, but they aren't like that anymore for all pickup trucks. In fact, that's how GVWR was figured out. Just add up your axle ratings.

Not necessarily true. In many cases the GVWR does not equal the sum of the axles. The max GVWR is what the manufacturer puts on the door tag. If you read the manufacturers disclaimers they will state that exceeding any of the numbers is not recommended.

[NDIrish]

Yup. It's whatever the weakest link is... you can be under all or your manufacturers limits but over weight on your registration and still be fined.

Going back to the OP question, who knows what margin of error the manufacturer builds into their products. When they list a gross weigh, they may have taken into account the 80% or whatever percentage and de-rated them. If the manufacturer says that your vehicle, axles, tires etc as rated for xxxxx lbs, they are giving you their approval for them to have up to and including that amount of weight on them.

I doubt a manufacturer will every say how much their product can really hold.

Originally Posted by Jshopes81

In pennsylvania theyll site you for exceding REGISTERED gvwr, not manufacturers gvwr, just to be perfectly clear.

[NDIrish]

Not saying it's right or that I agree with it. I just dont want anyone to get hurt, fined, or stuck on the side of the road because of a misunderstanding. Hopefully someday, all the states will come up with one standard and it will all be uniform

[BruceDeville]

Originally Posted by NDIrish

I should have clarified in my first post that I am speaking with 100% accuracy about Pennsylvania . I made the generalization because this is a law set by federal statute and if your state adopted those sections, then it is also a law in your state as well. Also, if you are traveling through a state that has adopted the above laws, they can be enforced on you as well.

I absolutely do have legal experience in this area. I also sat through several dispositions where there was a serious crash. Operator error and environmental factors were ruled out. The manufacturer of the vehicle, the manufacturers of the axle, suspension, steering parts, tire company and their attorneys all point the finger at what happened and who's fault it was. Weight was the main argument that everyone argued. In the end, the registered owner or his insurance company paid out

My interpretation of the original post was about exceeding 80% of the maximum allowable weight. Again my interpretation is that 80% is not a real number. If you are operating a 40,000 pound vehicle and have it loaded down to 35,000 pounds the "weights & standards" police (so named in Louisiana) are not going to give you a ticket for being 3,000 pounds over gross (ie 32,000 is 80% of 40,000). It is my opinion that in court the same would apply. How the manufacture determines the 40,000 is beyond the scope of my expertise. I do believe that maximum numbers come from a compilation of all of the components of the system, not just axles.

[Persistent]

Wow! 10 pages and still active. At 6 pages the OP says he still does not have an answer. I have not read all the intervening post, but here is my short answer.


The safe tow rating published by vehicle manufactures is complected to determine. First it is a maximum. Many owners or want to be owners see that as the maximum TT that can be towed. That is not what the Federally mandated system specifies.
It is the maximum that tow vehicle can tow under optimum conditions. Optimum conditions are:
As delivered by the manufacture
No cargo of any sort in the tow vehicle (150 pounds for driver, possibly full fuel tank)
The 80% rule is a shortcut to estimate the likely tow capacity when over weight driver, passengers, luggage, and equipment are added to the tow vehicle. Roughly speaking every 100# added to the delivered weight decreases the towing capacity by 1000# (10% tongue weight).
It is actually much more complected than that. Of course, no limits for TV components may be exceeded for safe efficient driving.

How many components are there, and what are the limits of each? Shortcuts are necessary for us ordinary people.


I Wish you good luck and happy trails!