Exceeding 80% of tow capacity

[alivermore]

How can someone go about finding out what the payload is? CatScales don’t seem to provide me this info. I have had my rig weighted and I am under GCWR, but would love to understand how to extract payload numbers.

[Paul Foster]

Originally Posted by alivermore

How can someone go about finding out what the payload is? CatScales don’t seem to provide me this info. I have had my rig weighted and I am under GCWR but would love to understand how to extract payload numbers.

Get your truck weighed with nothing in it and a full gas tank.

Load up your truck and 5th wheel as you would normally tow, including passengers and large animals. Get that weighed.

Subtract the weight of the rear axle unloaded from the weight fully loaded. You typically don't care about payload carried on the front axle because that typically has excess capacity.

But what you are interested in is whether or not the GAWR of the rear axle is exceeded, whether or not the GCWR and GVWR of either are exceeded and how much spare room you have. You can tell that with just the second weighing.

This is a good video explaining the terms and how to use the numbers on the vehicle and the specs from the vendor to determine if you are below the GVWR. But sadly he ignores the GAWR issues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwFLOBrADBs

[BubbaChris]

Originally Posted by Hatchee

Urban myth. No idea where these things come from. The engineers at Dodge rated it at XXXX lbs for a reason.

I believe it is more like Urban Wisdom. Look at the TFLTrucks YouTube videos where they are driving max tow configurations provided by the manufacturers. It will be some form of gooseneck trailer without a lot of front end or profile.

The physical size of RVs takes up some of that rated capacity from a comfort and stability perspective. That's why so many forum members will repeat the 80% advice. Having towed over 15K miles with a 6K TT behind a SUV rated for 9,500 lbs, I think that advice is solid.

Either way, the OP is likely to be well over payload on pin weight alone with a 3/4 diesel truck, so the 80% advice is moot anyway.

Best regards,
Chris

[rwinslow]

As stated above the axle ratings and the tire ratings will be pushed long before the GVWR. GVWR typically is most applicable when braking, i.e. slowing down that weight in your rear view mirror. If you exceed it and are involved in an accident, you are exposed from a liability perspective.

Axle and tire rating is based on a number of factors, too numerous to mention for this space. Don't exceed.

Besides braking considerations previously mentioned, GVWR is based primarily on differential temperature and the effects on the gear lube, etc. It used to be determined with instrumented test rigs pulling progressively loaded trailers on very long interstate hills in West Virginia on the hottest summer days (back in the late 90's). When we worked in WV, it was not uncommon to see various OEM's conducting the hill test and the occasional smoking differential. . . . . .

We pull with an FL-60 for a reason, I am an engineer who has performed multiple failure and accident analyses over the years. The OEM engineering recommendations should not be exceeded.

[Roadwarrior7]

Folks, GVWR is just what it says - GROSS Vehicle Weight Rating. This is the MOST the unit should weigh WHEN LOADED. it is not the empty weight plus load.
I suspect the empty weight is closer to 12,000. I think this is within the tow rating of the Dodge 2500.

[rblanch]

If your looking to stay with srw and can afford a 2020 truck all of them have upped their ratings. I just bought a new gmc AT4 3500 srw crew cab long box Diesel. The sticker on the door says gvwr 12,250 gcwr 29,700 rgawr 7,250 curb weight 8,605 max payload 3,645 conventional twr20,000 max tongue weight 2,000 gooseneck/5thwheel twr 21,100max tongue weight 3,165. This is an increase of 3700# 5th wheel towing and about 545# more tongue weight than my 2017 gmc 3500 short bed.

[LarryinID]

Originally Posted by Wileykid

Civil lawsuit could be filed because you were in an accident, your fault or not. Reasons could be, from not being satisfied at the settlement (or lack of) from the insurance company, to just a money grab. As has been mentioned above, the jury will assign the percentage of blame, and with one not complying with the manufacturer's written limits, that percentage may not be in your favor. It is not a matter of if you were the cause of the accident or not. The attorney is going to say something like, "the manufacturer has written that "X" weight is what this truck can handle with a safety margin built in, to be safe on the road. The defendant knowingly exceeded this limit, which could have adversely affected the safety and performance of the truck". I am not sure how anyone could refute that statement without the testing that the manufacturer does to dispute it.

The problem is ” could have”. That isn’t evidence.

I’ve never heard of wrecks being weighed. But even if over weight that doesn’t show cause of accident. Especially if the overweight vehicle was run into.

[Rhagfo]

Originally Posted by rblanch

If your looking to stay with srw and can afford a 2020 truck all of them have upped their ratings. I just bought a new gmc AT4 3500 srw crew cab long box Diesel. The sticker on the door says gvwr 12,250 gcwr 29,700 rgawr 7,250 curb weight 8,605 max payload 3,645 conventional twr20,000 max tongue weight 2,000 gooseneck/5thwheel twr 21,100max tongue weight 3,165. This is an increase of 3700# 5th wheel towing and about 545# more tongue weight than my 2017 gmc 3500 short bed.

GM was the last to the big numbers, waiting until 2020 for big numbers. The 2019 GM DRW only had a GVWR of 13,025#, while Ford and Ram were at 14,000#.

Well ram took the "Big Leap" in 2013 for the 3500's both DRW and SRW. The SRW Long bed CC has a GVWR of 12,300# payloads at or near 4,000#.


Keep in mind that the 3,645# payload starts going down as soon as your DW sits in the truck with you. As does the max pin weight.

Our 2016 Ram 3500 DRW is down about 1,300# from advertised payload, I do have a well stocked tool box in the bed.

[W5CI]

3645 lbs is nothing to brag about, my old 2015 RAM DRW has a payload rating of 6591 lbs

[Rhagfo]

Originally Posted by danny285

3645 lbs is nothing to brag about, my old 2015 RAM DRW has a payload rating of 6591 lbs

Must be a regular cab long bed Tradesman to get a number like that. Our 2016 Ram Laramie has a sticker payload of 5,411#.

[rblanch]

Originally Posted by danny285

3645 lbs is nothing to brag about, my old 2015 RAM DRW has a payload rating of 6591 lbs

Wasn't bragging just making the point of how much ratings have come up on srw if that is the preferred truck. The fully loaded Dodge srw is not higher than GMC However that was not the point.

[rblanch]

Originally Posted by rblanch

Wasn't bragging just making the point of how much ratings have come up on srw if that is the preferred truck. The fully loaded Dodge srw is not higher than GMC However that was not the point.

Also GM or Dodge web sites are not the ultimate source for the payload ratings. When I researched my truck as purchased on the website it had a payload rating 0f 4,000# however when I received the truck the door sticker said 3645#. Guess the curb weight was more than expected. I think the actual door sticker is the most accurate.

[alivermore]

Thanks for all the replies. Couple of additional questions:

1. How can I determine my true hitch weight for my RV? I have CAT Scale numbers and sticker numbers and they do not come close to being the same.

2. Also, does truck curb weight include a full tank of gas or not? That is about 400 lbs for my truck.

[jjackrash]

I use a weigh-safe hitch and know the tongue weight every time I tow conventionally. The trailer tongue weight is different every time it gets loaded differently. My TT does not vary as much as the dump trailer or flatbed, obviously, but I like to know I am in the 11-13% sweet spot when I am towing.