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Old 07-21-2022, 05:20 PM   #1
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Ford and GM 10-speed vs Ram/Aisin

0n the newer F350's with the 10 speed automatic, is it an Allison like the GMC?

Does the Ford or GMC 10 speed get much better MPG?

How do they compare to the Ram with the HO 6.7 and Aisin?
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Old 07-21-2022, 08:44 PM   #2
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Ford and GM jointly designed their 10 speed tranny. At the end of the process each of them “tweaked” their own design to make them unique but they are 90% the same.

GM pays Allison royalties to use their name still but the transmission was not designed or manufactured by Allison.

I don’t have much to say regarding MPG 6 speed v. 10 speed. I don’t have real world comparisons in HD trucks. Towing performance is a lot better. That I do know.
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Old 07-21-2022, 10:01 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MADP4301 View Post
Ford and GM jointly designed their 10 speed tranny. At the end of the process each of them “tweaked” their own design to make them unique but they are 90% the same.

GM pays Allison royalties to use their name still but the transmission was not designed or manufactured by Allison.

I don’t have much to say regarding MPG 6 speed v. 10 speed. I don’t have real world comparisons in HD trucks. Towing performance is a lot better. That I do know.
Thanks, good info.
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Old 07-21-2022, 10:04 PM   #4
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I recall on the Ike gauntlet, the cummins did better in MPG than the 10 speed diesel they compared it against. I don't recall if it was GM or Ford for the 10 speed. Both the commentators were surprised the 6 speed did better MPG up the hill, towing heavy.
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Old 07-22-2022, 04:40 AM   #5
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The Ford 10 speed beat the Ram up the Ike Gauntlet by about a minute and I remember them saying Ford did a good job mapping the 10 speed.

Agree that Ford and GM co-developed the 10 speed. The Aisin is an 8 speed so doubt there would be much noticable difference except roughness of shifts. The Aisin has the more noticeable shifts I have read.

On the 10 speeds the axle ratio is something like 3:55 or even 3:31.

The 10 speeds kinda scare me as a lot more can go wrong (break). But my next truck will probably be a 8, 9 or 10 speed because those will be the choices. Maybe by then I will know which transmission will be more reliable in 3 to 5 more years.
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Old 07-22-2022, 07:16 AM   #6
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This may not be helpful as I can't compare my Ford to another brand. The only thing I can compare is my 20 F350 10 speed vs my previous 17 F350 6 speed but the comparison is kind of skewed because the 17 was a dually and the 20 isn't. Both tow and towed very well. Mileage is quite a bit better with the 10 speed and shifting, especially when towing, is much smoother. Our 20 has the 3.31 gears and tows our 14,700 total weight Pinnacle extremely well. It will stay in 10th gear the majority of the time and when it does downshift it is usually to 8th. Steeper climbs will get it to 7th most of the time. Overall mileage when towing is around 11.

We use the truck quite a bit for long solo trips and we have seen as high as 23 mpg but usually 21-22. That is from the trip computer which some will chime in say it is not reliable. I did some early hand calculations and found there not to be enough of a difference to take the time to mess with it. Besides, not much I can do about it so whatever it is, it is.

My overall opinion of the Ford 10 speed is they hit a home run with it. Some don't like the fact that it skips gears when unloaded, like going from 1st to 3rd and then to 5th when accelerating from stopped. I pay no attention to it.
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Old 07-22-2022, 09:10 AM   #7
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The Ford 10 speed beat the Ram up the Ike Gauntlet by about a minute and I remember them saying Ford did a good job mapping the 10 speed.

Agree that Ford and GM co-developed the 10 speed. The Aisin is an 8 speed so doubt there would be much noticable difference except roughness of shifts. The Aisin has the more noticeable shifts I have read.

On the 10 speeds the axle ratio is something like 3:55 or even 3:31.

The 10 speeds kinda scare me as a lot more can go wrong (break). But my next truck will probably be a 8, 9 or 10 speed because those will be the choices. Maybe by then I will know which transmission will be more reliable in 3 to 5 more years.
The Aisin is a 6sp.

https://www.dieselhub.com/compare/aisin-vs-68rfe.html
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Old 07-22-2022, 09:49 AM   #8
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In my past life I worked as an engineer for a large corporation. Whenever a new vehicle and or major upgrade was done. We had due to a reliability study and assign a reliability number to the design. The higher the score, the better chance of less failure in the design. The more complex a design was and or had more numerous components, the reliability number was considered to be much lower since failures where more likely to occur.

So, with all of that being said I like simplicity in design and functionality of said design.

The 6-speed AISIN behind the 6.7L Cummins is perfect match. For Fit, Forum and Function in the use of the torque and HP of the Cummins engine for superior life of the transmission.
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Old 07-23-2022, 09:17 AM   #9
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I would be cautious about buying a 6 speed. Even if it is an Aisin. Probably as this is being written Aisin is working on adding gears. I am thinking 6 speeds are a thing of the past.
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Old 07-23-2022, 09:47 AM   #10
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6 speeds may be a thing of the past in multipurpose pickups but not in motorhomes that are always loaded..

If the pickup is empty, it can use a few overdrive gears to save a bit of gas.

You can't use 3 to 4 overdrive ratios while pulling weight so 2 in the 6 speed do it.

If the 10 speed is constantly shifting up and down, that's wear. Wear causes heat and heat ruins transmissions.
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Old 07-23-2022, 04:31 PM   #11
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I kinda agree that 6 speeds transmissions are good for motorhomes but won't two more gears allow a more precise blend between weight and gear ratio? Not in the over drive range but maybe the lower ranges.

I do agree that trucks driving solo (without a trailer) benefit most from the 10 speed. Especially with the more powerful engines.
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Old 07-25-2022, 06:25 PM   #12
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6 speeds may be a thing of the past in multipurpose pickups but not in motorhomes that are always loaded..

If the pickup is empty, it can use a few overdrive gears to save a bit of gas.

You can't use 3 to 4 overdrive ratios while pulling weight so 2 in the 6 speed do it.

If the 10 speed is constantly shifting up and down, that's wear. Wear causes heat and heat ruins transmissions.
the new 10 speeds dont shift as much as you think , they have big TQ down low in the RPM on the L5P motors in 2020 ( almost as much as the cummins). on a 100*F day my trans temps run about 175*f with 18,000lbs behind me pulling hills. These new trucks are much better than the older versions , the L5P and the 10 speed work very good together.

Ford gas motor truck with a 10 speed , Not a good combo. Deisel motor 10 speeds have been good.
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Old 07-25-2022, 09:43 PM   #13
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My '21 Thor Omni, XG32 is built on a Ford F-550 with the 6.7 diesel and the 10 speed trans. I love it. I live in central California, so many of our travels start out climbing from sea level up and over Donner Pass. The only time it downshifts from 10th gear is when traffic (not grade) slows us down. Through it all, my fuel economy is almost always over 11 mpg.
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Old 07-26-2022, 06:49 PM   #14
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AlfaBaz - that sounds like a very nice RV. I always wondered about a Super 'C' built on the Ford Chassis and 6.7 diesel engine. Thanks for sharing.
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