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Old 10-01-2021, 05:09 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by radar View Post
Well, canít speak for the other poster but for us it works very well. Itís a Tesla not a bolt but same idea. Getting close to two years and itís been flawless. The only maintenance has been washer fluid. Zero to sixty in 4 seconds, amazing handling, quiet, amazing tech, best winter car we have ever had, charge at home overnight, eats up road trips nicer than our grand Cherokee ever could. To each his own, but a test drive is a very eye opening experience.

JMHO.
Nice paragraph, I see a list of 10 bad reasons in your were giving a powerpoint presentation.

Here is good reasons for my Civic.

25 year is of flawless operation

no maintenance in the last two years

more than adequate handling and acceleration

can fuel it anywhere

do not need a garage

I can take the top off

amazingly quiet at 100 mph with the top off

Now as far as the comparison to the Cherokee, it is comparing one mistake to another.

My Honda del Sol is a 2-seat Civic. If I needed a 5 passenger car, it would be a mistake. When I get passed on the interstate by a high ground clearance big tire rock climber, I hope the mistake will not happen if front of me.

Compare apples to apples.

I bought DW a luxury car. She loved her 2007 Corolla, it had all the luxuries she wanted.

Let me know when a 5 passenger EV cost the same a Corolla.
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Old 10-01-2021, 05:25 PM   #58
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What??? About 231,000 all-electric vehicles were sold in 2020, down 3.2% from 2018. In each of the past three years, EVs accounted for about 2% of the U.S. new-car market.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-china-europe/

7000 x 365 = 2,555,000 annual sales?
Doubling? Without massive tax credits?
Yah sorry. Iím not an American and have no idea of the market. 7000 a day is a generalized number used for new EVís in the world market. From what I gather the US is presently a rather small market for EVís. But like I say, Iím not up on US stuff.
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Old 10-01-2021, 05:31 PM   #59
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Nice paragraph, I see a list of 10 bad reasons in your were giving a powerpoint presentation.

Here is good reasons for my Civic.

25 year is of flawless operation

no maintenance in the last two years

more than adequate handling and acceleration

can fuel it anywhere

do not need a garage

I can take the top off

amazingly quiet at 100 mph with the top off

Now as far as the comparison to the Cherokee, it is comparing one mistake to another.

My Honda del Sol is a 2-seat Civic. If I needed a 5 passenger car, it would be a mistake. When I get passed on the interstate by a high ground clearance big tire rock climber, I hope the mistake will not happen if front of me.

Compare apples to apples.

I bought DW a luxury car. She loved her 2007 Corolla, it had all the luxuries she wanted.

Let me know when a 5 passenger EV cost the same a Corolla.
Any ICE vehicle should get some maintenance done at least once a year, even if it is driven only 100km. An EV could bypass that as it needs brake fluid replacement every 2-3 years, and coolant (for the battery pack and inverter) every 5 years+.

Keeping an ICE engine vehicle a long time is a good thing as long as it's running optimally and was efficient to start with. Running a 1970s American V8 still is a bad idea, polluting the planet. My GF will be driving her 2002 Camry until the EV is built. It has 450 000km on it.

Her new ride is 5 passenger, more like 4 plus a kid, but it is the same end cost as a less equipped Civic. 43k-13k govt. rebates. A Civic base model starts over 27k here. That can easily hit 35k and still won't have the stuff the EV does, nor the performance.

Ford is not investing billions to blow smoke up people's &$$es. They are heading in the proper direction. Since the F150 is USAs top seller according to many sources, it makes sense they'll work on that as top priority.

Oh, the EV will not need a garage either. I don't know why you think that. It can also be fueled anywhere there's 120V power. Heck, they even supply the level2 charger now. You can hook it up at a 50A campground site and recharge at 11.5 kw/h.
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Old 10-01-2021, 11:11 PM   #60
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.... Heck, they even supply the level2 charger now. You can hook it up at a 50A campground site and recharge at 11.5 kw/h.
I am dry camping right now. So I should run my generator to charge my TOAD?

Based on what you wrote, sounds like a Camray is a good car. Lots of speculation about EV.
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Old 10-02-2021, 06:12 AM   #61
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I am dry camping right now. So I should run my generator to charge my TOAD?

Based on what you wrote, sounds like a Camray is a good car. Lots of speculation about EV.
Listen, you appear hellbent on trashing EVs. You don't like EVs, I get that. Like them or not, they are the future and will be a large part of the market. Ford sure appears to be jumping in with both feet according to this thread.

Yeah, you "could" use a genny to recharge an EV toad, but I doubt you'd find an EV that can be flat towed. The regenerative braking is one main reason for that.

All vehicles have their place. Yeah, a Camry is a pretty darn good car, but its time has come. It rides harshly, has few modern creature comforts and rust spots are setting in everywhere. I think we've minimized the carbon footprint of it by now though. Still gets 7.2l/100km, but that pales to the EV.
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Old 10-02-2021, 07:01 AM   #62
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So how many l/km does an EV get? How many liters does the diesel generator at the power plant consume? That has to be figured in when comparing the efficiency of ICEVs vs BEVs. Once you do that you will see that EVs are a less energy efficient mode of transport than a modern ICEV. So why have EVs in the first place then? The reason they are being forced upon us is ostensibly that they are less polluting, but once you look into emissions you will see that all an EV does is shift the emissions from the city to the power plant. That may be OK for Los Angeles but it's an economic disaster for the rest of us. So, now we have to introduce a new reason for making us waste all our money: climate change. But when you look into that you will find that CAGW is a false narrative. The globe is not warming and there is no such thing as a greenhouse gas.
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Old 10-02-2021, 07:18 AM   #63
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Far off the mark there buddy.

Move on, you are wrong on so many counts, it's just sad. You also appear to have tunnel vision. The USA is a big country but it's a small part of the planet. Not every country runs infrastructure like you do.

I gave my power supplier info in this thread. Look it up and you'll see 99% renewable clean energy here. Diesel power plants are far from the norm, even in the USA. Besides, you feel diesel is clean, so what's the issue?

The end of your rant is so wrong it's laughable. It belongs in a fiction novel.
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Old 10-02-2021, 07:29 AM   #64
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I have just proven to you that EVs are an economic disaster and you still don't get it. But if you want to spend double on your transportation then be my guest.
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Old 10-02-2021, 07:40 AM   #65
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Letís please get back on topic and stop this bickering back and forth. After you state your opinion ( when topical ) move on.
Thanks
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Old 10-02-2021, 07:58 AM   #66
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I can't imagine that anyone would buy an electric truck to tow an RV. You're limited in your travel range to about 100 miles. Maybe its OK for bringing your boat to the local lake, but even then, why would you pay so much more for an EV when you can get an ICEV to do it for half the price?
The reason is because the technology is advancing so fast that in just a few years an all electric vehicle will be as efficient as a gas vehicle. Tesla is very close to that now.

Our local county board has monthly ďelectric vehicle information ď day. People who own electric vehicles come out and share their experience. They bring their electric vehicles and you get real world information.

They inform people like you who ďcanít imagineĒ owning an electric vehicle.

The same information gathering activities were around in the 1900 when people ďcouldnít imagineĒ buying a car and getting rid of the horse.

Donít worry. Youíll see the light.
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Old 10-02-2021, 08:16 AM   #67
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I actually started out being interested in EVs but then I looked into them in detail and found out that the claims of efficiency were false and were based on a false narrative. I now believe that the EV revolution has peaked and the industry is destined for a serious shakeup. Some of it will survive (electric taxis and city delivery trucks) but EVs for general use will not. Forget about towing and motor home use. I think the worst part of EVs are the enormous batteries required. Production of these batteries is an ecological nightmare. Not good for the planet or for the economy.
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Old 10-02-2021, 08:17 AM   #68
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I hope Ford makes it but I have my doubts. Once people figure out that EVs actually consume a lot more energy than a modern diesel or hybrid the EV revolution will come to an end.
Except your information is wrong. Up front costs and with todayís technology this may be somewhat true. Development in these technologyís will take time.

Point in fact. Oil production and gas refining in the 20ís and 30ís was very inefficient. Natural gas and propane were waste products. Houses and factories used huge amounts of coal. Reason? It was cheap, there was no infrastructure to deliver and use natural gas and propane.

I met a guy who was in business in North Dakota in the 50s. The refinery would pay him to haul propane away. He had millions of gallons stored anyplace he could. He made a business out of giving away ďthem new fangled gas furnacesĒ and then he was the sole supplier in the area. Made himself a millionaire with one good idea.

My electric bill at my seasonal campground runs $60 to #90 a month. Im planning a solar install on my Rv. Couple reason. First it frees me up to boondocks. But a side benefit will be, if properly installed and used, I can provide most if not all my electric needs. If I was just doing it to save my electric bill, but between being able to unplug AND reduce my bill itís worthwhile.
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Old 10-02-2021, 08:20 AM   #69
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Get this - there is a solar farm going in at the place I grew up. I left that place because it was too cloudy and rainy. It is 70 miles east of Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. Putting a solar farm there makes no sense to me. They are putting it on the rainy side of a mountain.
Somebody has done the cost/return analysis. Modern solar no longer needs full sunlight to make usable amounts of energy. It makes no sense to you because you donít understand it.
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Old 10-02-2021, 08:23 AM   #70
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An electrical drive train loses 35% of the energy put into it by the prime mover on its way to the wheels. A mechanical drive train loses only 6%. For an EV, significant heat energy is lost in electricity transmission and distribution, battery charging, conversion back to AC and in the motor windings. For an ICEV with a mechanical drive only a small amount of heat energy is lost through friction in the gearing.

EVs would be OK if we had free energy to waste, but that's not the case.
Please list your sources for your numbers. If your saying ICEV vehicles are only 6% inefficient and EV are 35%, please list your source. My experience has been just the opposite.
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