Gas vs Diesel 3/4 Ton

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by kdauto

OK Goodspike, I wasn't sure which way you were going with that. 5.7l of oil so it hasn't changed even for my 2011. A diesel with 10l or more of oil, yeah, it also takes more more time to heat.

I do know it doesn't heat the same way, but I was trying to show people why an engine won't warm up that fast and many are going to reduced capacity cooling systems. The exception is heavy duty trucks and pickups. Many cars now barely take more than 4 to 5l total.

My first car was a Honda 600. No coolant and the heat came off the exhaust manifold almost instantly! It looked exactly like this, but used and not as nice. Most fun car to drive ever on country roads!

https://classicrecollections.wordpre...71-honda-n600/

Oh, and I suspect the engine reached full operating temperature rather quickly too!

[OlJB]

For towing, gas cannot compare to diesel. A strong enough gasser will tow your trailer, but it will sound like it is working harder, since it will shift gears more and run at a higher rpm's, to produce the HP necessary to tow. The diesel's torque is 2.5 to 3 times greater than a gas engine, so doesn't shift as often and runs at a lower rpm, so it is quieter.
However, the newer diesels with pollution control will have more problems if most of your driving is short hauls ( 5 to 10 miles at a time). Our 2012 Ram worked so well towing our 5th wheel, but when we stopped towing, we had problems with the exhaust particulate filter, the EGR system and batteries. I would solve these problems temporarily by getting out and driving on freeways for about 50 miles, but it was a temporary solution.
Since most of your trips from Phoenix to the areas you mention in AZ are a 3 to 5 hour drive, I would suggest you buy a gasser.

[Nlambert]

Originally Posted by kdauto

I love to eat sugary breakfasts every day and my heart is still fine.

I saw a dude go down a bumpy dirt road with a limo and he made it fine.

I took the amusement park ride that says 250 lbs max and I weigh 290, still made it.

The point is, anecdotal evidence is not an argument nor proof. A modern diesel run as a grocery getter for long periods, or parked for long periods will not be happy. DPF issues, EGR issues, turbo vane issues, DEF issues.

If you don't believe me, and I'm a tech with 35+ years of experience, go around and ask the mechanics that work on these diesel pickups.

I worked as a service writer for years for an International dealership when the 6.0 and 6.4 were released and have been daily driving diesels for over 15 years. I am well aware of what could happen, but I also know that there were tons of diesels that only came in for service and maintenance. More times than not failures were from a lack of maintenance (except the 6.0 and 6.4) and not because someone didn’t drive them enough. Also note that I said don’t baby them. Drive the truck and work the engine.

Can things happen? Sure. There are always some people who have issues. Doesn’t mean everyone does. This isn’t anecdotal evidence. This is first hand experience. The emissions systems are going to fail on them all at some point. That’s just something to know on a diesel. They’re terrible for the engines whether you run them loaded all the time or not. That doesn’t mean you avoid them if you need one.

[tuffr2]

I do know the GM worked on better cooling of both gas/diesel engines on their 2020 trucks. Bigger radiator and bigger fan.

There is a guy towing in the Rocky Mountains towing from 6,000ft to just over 10,000 with his 2020 GM 2500HD truck. He said his older GM 6.0 litre would over heat. His new truck maintains the speed limit plus does not overheat.

Gas engines have improved for 2020.

[nicky8668]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

I do know the GM worked on better cooling of both gas/diesel engines on their 2020 trucks. Bigger radiator and bigger fan.

There is a guy towing in the Rocky Mountains towing from 6,000ft to just over 10,000 with his 2020 GM 2500HD truck. He said his older GM 6.0 litre would over heat. His new truck maintains the speed limit plus does not overheat.

Gas engines have improved for 2020.

I don’t know why people complain gas engines suck at towing. It’s not just the power, you don’t need 1050 ft lb to tow a 15000 lb camper. Even if you give a 1/2 ton truck 1050 ft lb torque, it’s still not good for towing a fifth wheel. People are buying the 3/4 ton chassis for towing. It’s heavier body, bigger brake, thicker frame, longer wheelbase, and beefier axles. All of those contribute to better towing experience. Sure 1050 ft lb is a beast. But the new gas engine can give you over 400 ft lb torque at 1500 rpm, and that’s naturally aspirated gasoline engines. That’s more than what a turbocharged diesel engine makes 25 years ago. And people never complain diesel engines don’t have the power to pull 25 years ago.

The Cummins and PSD even have more torque than some MDT and even semi trucks, but it won’t pull a semi trailer safely on the interstates. HP and Torque aren’t everything. IMO, most vehicles have hp and torque overkill in the US comparing to car/trucks sold in Europe and Asia.

[NevadaNick]

My 2 cents worth is that they will all do the job but if your towing a lot the gas engine will wear on you because of the constant shifting and noise. My 2 cents is from everyday experience of owning both and currently own a dsl pickup and drive a gas pickup for work.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by nicky8668

I don’t know why people complain gas engines suck at towing. It’s not just the power, you don’t need 1050 ft lb to tow a 15000 lb camper. Even if you give a 1/2 ton truck 1050 ft lb torque, it’s still not good for towing a fifth wheel. People are buying the 3/4 ton chassis for towing. It’s heavier body, bigger brake, thicker frame, longer wheelbase, and beefier axles. All of those contribute to better towing experience.

I would tend to agree, and again add that if you have to go 5-10 miles per hour slower up a hill that's not the end of the world. I picked the diesel version of my truck (Chevy Colorado) even though in Fast Lane Truck's Ike Gauntlet test it was slower up the hill than the gas model. The 2.8 Duramax is a bit lacking in the HP department, although fine in torque.

I'm in a much smaller weight class than most of you for two reasons. First, I wanted a travel trailer rather than a motorhome. Second, I wanted the tow vehicle to fit inside my garage. That ruled out 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks because I have a height restriction and wanting 4WD.

I actually ended up with a heavier/larger trailer than what I expected, at about 3,900 empty, but that's largely due to the decision to go with a tandem axle trailer. While my truck's engine pulls that fine, if it wasn't for my garage issue I'd prefer to have a full size truck to pull it for the reasons I highlighted in the quote above. When it comes to tow vehicles, bigger is better, IMHO.

[tuffr2]

Here is the video of towing with a gas engine and a little bit of engine braking in the Rocky Mountains. From 6,000' to a little over 10,000'.

This guy had the old 6.0 Chevy and now has the new 6.6 gas truck. Improved cooling, pulls better and better engine braking.

https://youtu.be/PVd7p91rBjc

[nicky8668]

Originally Posted by NevadaNick

My 2 cents worth is that they will all do the job but if your towing a lot the gas engine will wear on you because of the constant shifting and noise. My 2 cents is from everyday experience of owning both and currently own a dsl pickup and drive a gas pickup for work.

Yeah. I guess the new Ford big block pushrod gas engine probably will last 200k-300k miles. Especially the engine is down-tuned. The GM 6.6 small block is also good as long as you keep the carbon out of the engine. The Cummins and PSD will last probably north of 500k if the emission “collar” is removed. They will still last a lot longer than gas engine with the sophisticated emission system, but I’m sure there will be something need serious attention and $$$ by 500k miles in a modern diesel engine.

For myself, probably the OP too, I only use the truck to tow 2-3000 miles a year and 300K miles longevity can virtually last me 100 years. And I don’t want the DEF stay still for month.

[tuffr2]

I have never worn out an engine before I get tired of the vehicle. I have kept 2 cars that I like 10 years but after 10 years the radio had a short, the A/C did not work, the door handle was broken, a slight oil leak and a few other things that no longer worked.

In 10 years I only put 165k miles on the cars. The engine was fine but the seats and other things wore out.

[kdauto]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

I do know the GM worked on better cooling of both gas/diesel engines on their 2020 trucks. Bigger radiator and bigger fan.

There is a guy towing in the Rocky Mountains towing from 6,000ft to just over 10,000 with his 2020 GM 2500HD truck. He said his older GM 6.0 litre would over heat. His new truck maintains the speed limit plus does not overheat.

Gas engines have improved for 2020.

I've said it before, a well-maintained GM gas 6.0 does not typically overheat. I've pulled heavier loads up steeper terrain in hotter weather, WITH the A/C on full blast and never had temps climb over midrange on the gauge. Oil temps and trans temps all well within safe margins. We don't know what model year 6.0 he had nor what shape it was in.

For those that keep talking about the carbon issue on a GM 6.6 gad direct injection...well, how do YOU know? Not ALL direct injection engines have the issue. Some are design flaws, but many are maintenance issues and using incorrect,cheap oil that vaporize and cake on valves.

Time will tell on direct injection on these.

[NevadaNick]

I had 2 different 6.0 gas Chevy trucks for work and pulled a gooseneck that sometimes was near 20k lbs and those trucks never overheated.

[laj]

Some people can break an anvil.

[nicky8668]

Originally Posted by kdauto

For those that keep talking about the carbon issue on a GM 6.6 gad direct injection...well, how do YOU know? Not ALL direct injection engines have the issue. Some are design flaws, but many are maintenance issues and using incorrect,cheap oil that vaporize and cake on valves.

Time will tell on direct injection on these.

Simple, because the detergent-like gasoline doesn’t go through and wash the valve at all. All direct injection engines have carbon issue at some level. The larger displacement, more likely will have the carbon issue, because larger engines tend to work at lower rpm. The only design solve the carbon problem is port-direct dual injection system Toyota developed.