Community Forums

Randy the sly old fox · 02-21-2009, 11:11 PM

I have also noticed a trend on truck data sheets - esp GM where they list only the MAX GVWR for the vehicle type for example, the GVWR for the 3500 is listed at 11,200lbs - they do not tell you that is for the DRW and not the SRW model. Last year they gave data for both models. I suppose it was too easy to see taht the SRW 3500 had only 700lbs more payload than the 2500. I am not sure how Ford and Dodge list their 3500 GVWRs.
BTW I have never seen an SRW with more than 9900 lb GVWR - perhaps Ford once tried this same trick.

TXiceman · 02-22-2009, 03:54 AM

There are two places (among many) where the public needs additional education...

One is towing any trailer, whether it is a utility trailer with a tractor on it or an RV. People need to be able to demonstrate the minimum safety requirements and understanding of towing a trailer and be so noted on the license. Pulling a trailer is a lot different then just driving a sedan.

Two is boats (power or sail). You should also need a license and have to take the Coast Guard Power Squadron course on Seamanship.

I know, government intervention is not what anyone wants, but it the people are not smart enough to limit themselves, the government will need to step in and place some limits on things, for the safety of everyone else.

The weight ratings set buy the states have no real bearing on what a truck can tow within reason. Their tag rates are set by lawyers and accountants to make money for the state.

So in the mean time we must all be reasonable and safe in our approach to towing and try to educate the ones that do not know and have been sucked in by a dealer of salesman with the old line ..."You can pull anything we have on the lot with that beast".

Ken

Rick McNeal · 02-23-2009, 06:56 AM

While I agree that this discussion has been extremely beneficial to many, myself included I believe we're missing something here.

We're failing to see the forest because of the trees so to speak. Are there folks with overloaded RVs, yep and we're all in agreement there. However, these folks represent such a small portion of the problem I don't believe it's worth worrying about.

Bad drivers in general are a far larger danger and we as a society need to figure out how to educate people. Remind them that driving is a privilege, not a right. Get people to concentrate on driving and ignore other distractions. I've been RV'ing for the last 15 years and overweight rigs aren't the concern I have. Drivers who just plain don't see what's in front of them are the scary ones.

Steve Rankin · 03-12-2009, 12:48 AM

While a part of me would like to have a duallie, we find the disadvantages outweigh the advantages, so we've stuck with SRW, but the real question the OP asked was:

Which weight ratings are important?

Well, the real answer is all of them. Every rating is a link in the chain that leads to GVWR and GCVWR and like a chain, it's no good if a link is broken.

Let's say I can lift 200#. But, if that 200# is sitting on my nose, I'm going to have a broken nose and insisting that it's not a problem because I can lift 200# is only going to make me sound rather silly in addition to having a broken nose.

I know a guy that has an excellent response to the question "Where do you draw the line?" He simply says "Where the line is."

Another way of putting it is that the most important weight rating is the one you can't meet. None of the others matter if you can't meet all of them.

TXiceman · 03-12-2009, 05:42 AM

Rick, I have to agree on the bad drivers, but they still need a properly matched rig, otherwise they will be in trouble sooner. Matched and within ratings, gives the benefit of keeping the rig under control when a bad situation occurs. It may be the slight safety margin you need in order to avoid an accident.

I still believe that there needs to ba an additional testing requirement for towing a trailer or operating a motorhome. Pulling even a 3000# trailer requires additional skills over driving the family sedan. While the testing would not guarantee a safer driver, he would at least be made aware of the requirements for towing.

Ken

Steve Rankin · 03-14-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXiceman

Rick, I have to agree on the bad drivers, but they still need a properly matched rig, otherwise they will be in trouble sooner. Matched and within ratings, gives the benefit of keeping the rig under control when a bad situation occurs. It may be the slight safety margin you need in order to avoid an accident.

I still believe that there needs to ba an additional testing requirement for towing a trailer or operating a motorhome. Pulling even a 3000# trailer requires additional skills over driving the family sedan. While the testing would not guarantee a safer driver, he would at least be made aware of the requirements for towing.

Ken

I agree with Ken 100%.

Why we enforce weight limits on experienced professional drivers and let inexperienced amateurs run amok is beyond me.

After driving fire apparatus of all kinds for about 15 years, the rules changed I had to get a CDL to drive any of our rigs over 26,000# GVWR. OK, I can go along with that. But, I could go out and drive our 29,410# diesel pusher or any other RV I desired with impunity. Dumb.

Roam America · 03-16-2009, 11:33 AM

I too am impressed that this thread is on the 4th page and has remained very civil. It cements in my mind why iRV2 is one of the better sites around.

I am not trying to be any less civil, but simply express my opinion. I am one who would not feel that Government is trying to suppress my rights if a special license endorsement were required to pull a trailer; any trailer. I would see it as a government attempting to protect the life and health and well being of the public. Part of getting that endorsement should be training on tow ratings, how to calculate them and what they mean. Maybe RV insurers should ask for documentation that a subscriber's combination is towing within the tow ratings. It is not just people pulling trailers with pickups, vans, etc. I have seen Motorhomes pulling mighty large trailers behind them. I wonder about them too.

I believe one cannot categorically state that any given trailer can or cannot be towed with a given tow vehicle, SRW or DRW. While tow vehicle size plays a role, it is a matter of weights and weight ratings. There is a reason why manufacturer engineers came up with those ratings. There is not one single tow rating that any more or less important than any other rating. They all work in harmony with safety in mind.

I also feel that RV's should be included in vehicles that must stop at weigh stations. I feel very strongly that people should not be on the road driving over-weight. It is not just a decision whether to put themselves at risk, they are jeopardizing the safety of every person driving around them on that highway.

I worked, albeit briefly, as an RV salesperson and one things the sales manager did not like is when I sat down with pencil and paper and drew out the weight ratings and calculate what a customer could pull. Even to the point of going to the computer and pulling up the Towing Guide and looking up their truck. I admit that I quit, but only after hearing derogatory comments about me chasing customers away.

Those are my opinions and I believe very strongly about them. I am not trying to force these opinions on anyone. Just stating my thoughts. I was a firefighter so I can take the heat of flaming.

CD · 03-16-2009, 01:18 PM

K-Star
I agree with you. I don't look forward to getting endorsments, taking tests etc. but you have good points.

ruppr · 03-17-2009, 12:08 AM

K-Star, sounds go to me. I've driven long haul, had to do the classes/training/license, had no problem with being required to do so. Currently on my third MH (started with a class C, after the popup's) have yet to be asked by a seller: driving experience, license class, what class license (weight) do you have-- ever driven one before, oops, your license doesn't cover this rig weight?

Hey, let's do the PDI and your on your way!!!!

Still in my mind, the number one problem with those on the road, the dealer will sell anything, to any combination, to get the sale out the door. Really sad---- because the average newbie has nothing else but the dealer to depend on for information!!!

All above, my opinion---but to often true, very sad that there is no enforcement on the seller to provide the proper information to the buyer------

Best,

Randy the sly old fox · 03-25-2009, 05:02 PM

I don't agree that the overloaded drivers are in the minority. I am a weekender myself and get out once or twice a month between Mar and Oct. I usually camp within 150mi of home. It seems that I see at least one mismatched combo every time I go out.

KStar - I am sorry that your boss did not like the way you sold RVs - but I bet the people you did sell were happy that you helped them out. I have run across only one salesman who talked me out of one trailer and into a smaller one.

Steve Rankin · 03-25-2009, 09:19 PM

Well, I wouldn't go as far as saying that the majority of RV's are overloaded, but there are certainly a large number that are. We went on a caravan one time with 19 other RVs. Of the 20 total RVs there were 3 that were aware that they were overloaded. That's 15% that actually admitted to being overweight. I have to believe that at least a couple of others were, too. That and the number of RVers that have tire failures indicates that a huge number of RVs are overloaded.

CD · 03-25-2009, 09:51 PM

I have heard (read) several times that Aweigh We Go ( I think that's the name) that weighs RVs at rallies have found that something like almost 70% are overloaded some where. It may be one corner but still over loaded.

Randy the sly old fox · 03-26-2009, 12:21 PM

CD - you are right with the "a weigh we go" group. They do go around to RV ralleys with portable scales and jacks - just like the cops have - and will weigh your rig as it sits. They are all about tire safety and proper inflation vs loading etc. I know that with TTs, the tires usually determine most of the GVWR of the unit. Sometimes a mfg will derate the GVWR to be less than the tire rating - but not often. Usually the axles and tires have the same ratings and thus lead to the GVWR. With TTs you also need to figure in the hitch wt -which is included in the GVWR but not in the Gross Axle and Tire weight ratings.

Also, I am not talking just about tire failures - but totally mismatched rigs like a small SUV towing a 26' TT with no mirror extensions climbing a hill at 5 MPH. The other thing I see a lot of is WD hitches with the torsion bars almost touching the trailer frame - this tells me that something is way wrong with the hitch - and sometimes these are not newbies - but seasoned RVers who are clueless to what they are doing wrong. I guess most people tend to trust the person who sold us the RV/truck/hitch to know what they are doing. We go blindly down the path not knowing any better. Then there are folks like me who read the manuals and study the data and will spend the time to dial in the hitch, buy the mirrors, get the right truck, weigh the rig (at least once), etc. I would hope that we are in the majority. But I still want to get out and wring the ever-loving out of the guy with the undersized tow vehicle with no mirrors and no clue as to what is behind him - except his trailer.