Giving Out Bad Information

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by 4x4ord

I would bet that 100 dollars that the guy could tow his 18500 lb toy hauler for ten years with his F250 and never come across a LEO who would give a rip what his GVWR is let alone ticket him for being overloaded. Overloaded by 1000 lbs doesn't sound like a big deal to me.

He was over 1000 pounds over GAWR and over 2,000 pounds over 10,000 pounds he is allowed to weigh according to DOT Class 2 vehicle limit of 10,000 pounds of 2015 F250 Class 2 Truck.

[00 Buckshot]

CWSWine seems to have an issue with "THIS" Forum. I have been on this forum for a long time and I have never seen a post like he is describing. I have seen some bad info posted but it was immediately pointed out by responsible members.

[JIMNLIN]

Originally Posted by Kid Gloves

^^^So, in CA, the vehicle weight ratings can be exceeded as long as the tires can support the load? Does the guy in the original story just need new tires?

He may have 22.5" wheels and tires on a one ton srw but it gains nothing over the truck mfg rawr numbers.

And like the CHIP commander says **....as
those types of trailers tend to transfer a larger portion of their
weight to the last axle of the towing unit causing that axle to exceed
the tire load limits.**
The last axle has a vehicle mfg rawr number. The tires/wheels/spring packs can meet or exceed that number. Dot can choose the lessor of those numbers.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by JIMNLIN

How many scale houses have you pulled through and been scaled and had your all document/licenses checked or how many road side weight checks have you had or even how many new entrant audits have you had in your towing career... Thats what I thought....zero.
Having pulled for a living with 3/4 and one ton trucks/heavy GN/5th wheel rv and non rv trailers over 11 years straight I know DOT does not enforce a class rating number nor do they enforce the truck or trailers mfg GVWR period .

WE have 48 state motor vehicle size and weight laws on the books . They may have different wording but all point to the same axle/tire load ratings as generic in all 48 states.

I'm not posting all the states weight codes I have but they all go like this one;

PA vehicle weight regs
§ 4943. Maximum axle weight of vehicles.
(a) General rule.--No vehicle or combination driven upon a
highway shall have a weight upon any axle in excess of the
lesser of the manufacturer's rated axle capacity or the
following applicable weight:

(snip..bridge law formula/single/tandam/etc)

(c) Gross weight.--No vehicle or combination shall be driven
with a gross weight in excess of the sum of the allowable axle
weights as set forth in this section, nor shall any vehicle or
combination be driven with a gross weight in excess of the sum
of the manufacturer's rated axle capacities.
*********************************************

And this email a rv.net member asked CHIP (California) about mfg gvwr/gcwr ...its a couple of pages long but the weight part goes like this

Q: “Many of the owners travel over their tow vehicle GVWR and /or
GCWR. Are there any state laws against this? Or does the owner just
take the risk if they wish?”


A: The California Vehicle Code (CVC) does not contain a law that
specifically limits the amount of weight a vehicle may tow based on the
towing vehicle GVWR or GCWR. There are, however, laws that limit the
amount a vehicle may tow based on other criteria.

Title 13 California Code of Regulations prohibits
the loading of tires above the maximum load rating marked on the tire,
or if unmarked the maximum load rating as specified in the applicable
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard, or in a publication furnished to
the public by the tire manufacturer. This would most likely happen in
the case of a pickup truck towing a large fifth wheel travel trailer, as
those types of trailers tend to transfer a larger portion of their
weight to the last axle of the towing unit causing that axle to exceed
the tire load limits.
Sincerely,
S. B. DOWLING, Captain
Commander
Commercial Vehicle Section"
*************************************

And of course tire load limits are determined by the vehicle mfg gawrs per fed fMVSS.

Sorry mod/adm for the long post but CWSWine is posting misinformation now and his previous opinions without any actual first hand experience about what dot enforces.

I would believe Bob Raybuck, NTEA director of Technical Services recent article that has been reposted on hundreds of truck-related websites and also reprinted in RAM Chevy GMC and Ford commercial newsletters. Then miss information put out by some random post on the internet.


He states this and I quote:
"There’s a common misconception that a truck’s GVWR is determined by adding gross axle weight ratings (GAWRs) together for all axles. Although this was a common way of calculating GVWR many years ago, it’s no longer an accurate method. The chassis manufacturer task of establishing a vehicle GVWR is much more difficult today due to advancement of safety system standards and how vehicles meet these requirements"

Who is NETA
"Established in 1964, NTEA – The Association for the Work Truck Industry, represents more than 2,000 companies that manufacture, distribute, install, sell and repair commercial trucks, truck bodies, truck equipment, trailers and accessories. Buyers of work trucks and the major commercial truck chassis manufacturers also belong to NTEA. The Association provides in-depth technical information, education, and member programs and services, and produces Work Truck Week and Green Truck Summit. The Association maintains its administrative headquarters in suburban Detroit and government relations offices in Washington, DC, and Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. View staff directory."

Sorry mods I had to post up-to-date information.

Forgot to put the link so you read for your self.
https://www.ntea.com/NTEA/Member_ben...k_trucks1.aspx

[Kid Gloves]

Originally Posted by JIMNLIN

He may have 22.5" wheels and tires on a one ton srw but it gains nothing over the truck mfg rawr numbers.

And like the CHIP commander says **....as
those types of trailers tend to transfer a larger portion of their
weight to the last axle of the towing unit causing that axle to exceed
the tire load limits.**
The last axle has a vehicle mfg rawr number. The tires/wheels/spring packs can meet or exceed that number. Dot can choose the lessor of those numbers.

In the letter you included from CHP, there was no mention made of GAWR. Only GVWR, GCWR and tire loads. If we take the letter as gospel, we only need the tires to be capable of supporting the load and all is good.

You also stated this: “And of course tire load limits are determined by the vehicle mfg per fed fMVSS.”

Tire load limits are determined by the tire manufacturer.

[Rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

GVWR is just for warranty and registration and wasn’t important nor unsafe to exceed.

Correct.........many states ALLOW registering your truck for GVW higher then MFG GVWR
No Statues/Citations for exceeding GVWR

He was told by people on this forum that all he need to do was weigh the truck and subtract the rear axle weights for the GAWR and that was his max pin weight his truck could handle legally.

Correct.......difference between RAWR and actual weight on Rear Axle is the MAX weight one can add

That is what he did and the difference was 3100 pounds so he purchased a toy hauler with a 2900 pound dry pin weight.


INCORRECT!!
3100# was difference so 3100# would be the MAX he could add to Rear Axle W/O exceeding the RAWR
2900# DRY WEIGHT is NOT what he should have used....
**should have used 20-25% of trailer GVWR for WET PIN

Advice/Information WAS correct
HIS interpretation/understanding was NOT

I would bet NO ONE told him a 2015 F250 was correct truck for a 18,500 Trailer...PERIOD!

While some states allow registration at a higher weight, it is written several times in both the owners manual and advertising materials the it is unsafe to exceed any of your trucks ratings.
While you may not get ticketed for exceeding the trucks GVWR, a personal injury lawyer will use it to great advantage in an lawsuit, in civil court.

[NevadaNick]

Kid Gloves, the weight rating of the truck has no legal basis for a ticket but the tire rating does, so yes if you do not exceed the tire rating you can be over the trucks rating. Registration comes into play in some states as well. There are companies in Nevada that their F250’s are registered for 40k lbs to cya when pulling large capacity gooseneck trailers.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by NevadaNick

Kid Gloves, the weight rating of the truck has no legal basis for a ticket but the tire rating does, so yes if you do not exceed the tire rating you can be over the trucks rating. Registration comes into play in some states as well. There are companies in Nevada that their F250’s are registered for 40k lbs to cya when pulling large capacity gooseneck trailers.

So he operating the truck on Federal Highways using a DOT Class 2 truck with weights assigned to a Class 8 truck.

Remember me, I called Nevada DMV claiming I was moving there and was told that registration weights are administrative and don't change any truck ratings or allow anyone to exceed Federal Safety Guidelines.

Class 8 Currently the highest rated truck by DOT
Heavy truck
33,001 pounds (14,969 kg) and above
Examples would be:
Autocar ACX and DC; Volvo Truck VNL; Freightliner Cascadia, Business Class M2 112, 118SD, and EconicSD; Ford F-750; Hino XL8; International LT, HV, and RH; Kenworth T680, T880, and W990; Mack Anthem, Granite, Pinnacle, and TerraPro; Peterbilt 389,[15] 579, and 520; Western Star 4800, 4900 and 5700; Pierce, E-One, Spartan, Ferrara, KME custom fire apparatus.

[Kid Gloves]

Originally Posted by NevadaNick

Kid Gloves, the weight rating of the truck has no legal basis for a ticket but the tire rating does, so yes if you do not exceed the tire rating you can be over the trucks rating. Registration comes into play in some states as well. There are companies in Nevada that their F250’s are registered for 40k lbs to cya when pulling large capacity gooseneck trailers.

Not according to Jim. DOT can use the lesser of the two, tire or vehicle rating.

But then again, he said that vehicle manufacturers determine tire load limits. Maybe the statement in the original post about bad information is correct.

[SGhost]

Wow, stupid me for overspec'g my truck (See sig) to make damn sure I had extra capacity to pull my 5th wheel safely. Now I just received a recall letter from Ford telling me some knot head approved a change to the axle tube thickness during the assembly where the only down side is "IF" I load it to capacity, it could crush the axle causing the axle to spin and disconnect the drive train causing a crash.

Built Ford tough....... Ha.

Moral of the story, pay CLOSE attention to truck specs and ratings. Also, get the rig weighed to see what your numbers really are. If you want to stretch the envelope, fine but when you load your wife and kids, that's dangerous and careless.

[tuffr2]

Yikes, now I am confused as to what my F-250 can tow. I am now thinking it is 40,000lbs. New Horizon 5th wheel here I come....cool.

[Old-Biscuit]

Wet pin....wet pin

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

Yikes, now I am confused as to what my F-250 can tow. I am now thinking it is 40,000lbs. New Horizon 5th wheel here I come....cool.

They are about 20 miles away from me and the previous owner used to shop in a store. Here you Horizon for your F250 If I remember right the GVWR on this was around 29,000 pounds.

Just kidding this is the Medium-Duty Truck Range

[TB673]

Originally Posted by wildcatter

I agree the posts are good, you can send some people to school but can't make them absorb the information the are given. The problem with putting bad information out there how does a person determine what is correct?

If you want to get correct information,read the whole thread, not just a few of the postings that you agree with.
Generally, if there is bogus info posted, there are enough knowledgeable posters on this forum to refute said bad information.

Tim