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09-08-2021, 09:49 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Manhattan (Little Apple) Kansas
Posts: 2,476
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Giving Out Bad Information
Got into a conversation with fellow campers that was towing a toy hauler with 2900 dry pin weight with an 18,500 GVWR with a 2015 F250 diesel truck. I ask if he ever weight the combination and he said he just weight the truck to determine his max pin weight. He said people on this forum told him that GVWR is just for warranty and registration and wasn’t important nor unsafe to exceed. He was told by people on this forum that all he need to do was weigh the truck and subtract the rear axle weights for the GAWR and that was his max pin weight his truck could handle legally. That is what he did and the difference was 3100 pounds so he purchased a toy hauler with a 2900 pound dry pin weight.
We looked at the yellow sticker and said 2120 max payload. I convince him with 100 dollar bet that he was over the tire ratings and axle ratings and he took me up on the bet. The day he left I followed him to the CAT scale with him and his wife and two teenage daughters in the truck. Well, he was over his axle ratings but 1080 pounds and over his tire ratings by over 460 pounds. He has been using this truck RV combo for over a year not knowing he was exceeding any of his truck specs.
This is what happens when incorrect information is given to a first-time RV buyer that all you have to do is weigh your truck and the difference between the RAWR and the weight is what you can haul. He said no one told him the pin increases after you load it and are ready to camp. He got back in his truck and said this truck going to have to do for a couple of years because I can afford to replace it right now.
PS I didn’t take his 100 bucks, I told him to use it to upgrade your truck.
__________________
2020 Newmar Baystar 3005 Gas V10 - 2020 Jeep Rubicon
1280 Watts Solar - Victron MultiPlus-II 12/3000/120-50 120V Inverter
300 Amp Lithium Battery
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09-08-2021, 09:52 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 7,867
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Would appreciate a link to this bad advice.
Kind of hard to believe.
__________________
Brett Wolfe
Ex: 2003 Alpine 38FDDS. Ex: 1997 Safari Sahara. Ex: 1993 Foretravel U240
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09-08-2021, 09:59 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Sun City West, AZ
Posts: 411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWSWine
Got into a conversation with fellow campers that was towing a toy hauler with 2900 dry pin weight with an 18,500 GVWR with a 2015 F250 diesel truck. I ask if he ever weight the combination and he said he just weight the truck to determine his max pin weight. He said people on this forum told him that GVWR is just for warranty and registration and wasn’t important nor unsafe to exceed. He was told by people on this forum that all he need to do was weigh the truck and subtract the rear axle weights for the GAWR and that was his max pin weight his truck could handle legally. That is what he did and the difference was 3100 pounds so he purchased a toy hauler with a 2900 pound dry pin weight.
We looked at the yellow sticker and said 2120 max payload. I convince him with 100 dollar bet that he was over the tire ratings and axle ratings and he took me up on the bet. The day he left I followed him to the CAT scale with him and his wife and two teenage daughters in the truck. Well, he was over his axle ratings but 1080 pounds and over his tire ratings by over 460 pounds.
This is what happens when incorrect information is given to a first-time RV buyer that all you have to do is weigh your truck and the difference between the RAWR and the weight is what you can haul. He said no one told him the pin increases after you load it and are ready to camp. He got back in his truck and said this truck going to have to do for a couple of years because I can afford to replace it right now.
PS I didn’t take his 100 bucks, I told him to use it to upgrade your truck.
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As many people that jump in on these ' weighty' matters, it's hard to believe that this was the info he received without anyone else (many anyones) setting things straight.
Sounds like maybe a case of he had the truck already and went with the answer that met his needs...i.e. what he wanted to hear. Did you get his forum name? Be interesting to see the thread.
__________________
2022 Rockwood Signature 8324SB TT, 36' 8", 11,115 lb GVWR
2019 Ford F350 CCSB, 6.2L gas, 2WD, 4.30 gears
2020 Keystone Cougar 'Half-Ton' 29RLKWE, 33'.3", 9500 lb GVWR - Sold
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09-08-2021, 10:02 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Powell River, B.C.
Posts: 31,269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfe10
Would appreciate a link to this bad advice.
Kind of hard to believe.
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Not actually hard to believe , I've seen it done and reacted accordingly .
If we can get the members user name we can track down the offending party.
I tell people giving out the bad advice they need to give their real name and bank account info , when telling others to just hook up and tow it.
__________________
99DSDP 3884, Freightliner, XC, CAT 3126B, 300 HP /ALLISON 3060
2000 Caravan toad, Remco & Blue Ox.
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09-08-2021, 10:05 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Omaha, Ne
Posts: 427
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I wish I would have taken a picture of what I seen the other day at a Costco in Omaha, there was a family (I presume) of a husband, wife and two kids, they were pulling a triple axle 42 foot 5th wheel with a Chevy 2500 diesel, the headlights on the truck were pointing up, that truck was not big enough for that camper. I see these people coming and I get out of their way. You see the same bad information/advice when it comes to electricity as well.
__________________
Curt
2015 Wildcat 295RSX
2014 Ram 3500 CCLB 6.7 cummins
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09-08-2021, 10:14 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 7,867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcatter
You see the same bad information/advice when it comes to electricity as well.
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Actually, there are enough knowledgeable people here that it is hard to recall where incorrect information was not pretty quickly corrected by a number of others.
I agree, may be one poster gave him the "information he was looking for" and he ignored all the rest.
But, would still like to see that thread!
__________________
Brett Wolfe
Ex: 2003 Alpine 38FDDS. Ex: 1997 Safari Sahara. Ex: 1993 Foretravel U240
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09-08-2021, 10:15 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 26,643
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GVWR is just for warranty and registration and wasn’t important nor unsafe to exceed.
Correct.........many states ALLOW registering your truck for GVW higher then MFG GVWR
No Statues/Citations for exceeding GVWR
He was told by people on this forum that all he need to do was weigh the truck and subtract the rear axle weights for the GAWR and that was his max pin weight his truck could handle legally.
Correct.......difference between RAWR and actual weight on Rear Axle is the MAX weight one can add
That is what he did and the difference was 3100 pounds so he purchased a toy hauler with a 2900 pound dry pin weight.
INCORRECT!!
3100# was difference so 3100# would be the MAX he could add to Rear Axle W/O exceeding the RAWR
2900# DRY WEIGHT is NOT what he should have used....
**should have used 20-25% of trailer GVWR for WET PIN
Advice/Information WAS correct
HIS interpretation/understanding was NOT
I would bet NO ONE told him a 2015 F250 was correct truck for a 18,500 Trailer...PERIOD!
__________________
I took my Medication today. HAVE YOU?
Dodge 3500 w/Tractor Motor
US NAVY---USS Decatur DDG-31
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09-08-2021, 10:34 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Florida
Posts: 557
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Ignorance is bliss.
But it is surprising that he doesn't care even after being educated.
__________________
2021 Newmar Bay Star 3626
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09-08-2021, 05:59 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Independent Republic of Horry
Posts: 556
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Education needs to be absorbed and some people are full.
__________________
2018 Ram 1500, 2020 Cougar 22RBS
Just the 2 of us and 2 Jacks on the roam.
Meet us at Olympus Mons. Gone Traveling.
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09-08-2021, 06:21 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit
GVWR is just for warranty and registration and wasn’t important nor unsafe to exceed.
Correct.........many states ALLOW registering your truck for GVW higher then MFG GVWR
No Statues/Citations for exceeding GVWR
He was told by people on this forum that all he need to do was weigh the truck and subtract the rear axle weights for the GAWR and that was his max pin weight his truck could handle legally.
Correct.......difference between RAWR and actual weight on Rear Axle is the MAX weight one can add
That is what he did and the difference was 3100 pounds so he purchased a toy hauler with a 2900 pound dry pin weight.
INCORRECT!!
3100# was difference so 3100# would be the MAX he could add to Rear Axle W/O exceeding the RAWR
2900# DRY WEIGHT is NOT what he should have used....
**should have used 20-25% of trailer GVWR for WET PIN
Advice/Information WAS correct
HIS interpretation/understanding was NOT
I would bet NO ONE told him a 2015 F250 was correct truck for a 18,500 Trailer...PERIOD!
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Yep.
__________________
2018 ORV Timber Ridge 24rks
2017 F350 6.7 CC DRW
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09-09-2021, 09:02 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Omaha, Ne
Posts: 427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfe10
Actually, there are enough knowledgeable people here that it is hard to recall where incorrect information was not pretty quickly corrected by a number of others.
I agree, may be one poster gave him the "information he was looking for" and he ignored all the rest.
But, would still like to see that thread!
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I agree the posts are good, you can send some people to school but can't make them absorb the information the are given. The problem with putting bad information out there how does a person determine what is correct?
__________________
Curt
2015 Wildcat 295RSX
2014 Ram 3500 CCLB 6.7 cummins
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09-09-2021, 09:24 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Thor Owners Club Newmar Owners Club Entegra Owners Club Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Suffolk, VA / Roaring Gap NC
Posts: 643
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So hard to know what truly happened. Good job trying to educate them, but onus is on them to realize their errors and get into a safe condition. I have rarely seen people be malicious in the forums, but I have seen people give information out they thought to be factual that turned out to be wrong.
I believe folks should seek out multiple sources of information before making major decisions. In this case there were manufactures reps that could have help provide clarity and guidance.
In the end, people are going to make their own choices. When i see unsafe conditions I also try to educate those involved. It is not always welcome.
__________________
Mary Beth and John + Billy and Barcelona our traveling fur babies,
2021 Entegra Cornerstone 45 F/2019 Chevy Colorado toad
(2019 Newmar Canyon Star)(traded in)
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09-09-2021, 10:26 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Manhattan (Little Apple) Kansas
Posts: 2,476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit
GVWR is just for warranty and registration and wasn’t important nor unsafe to exceed.
Correct.........many states ALLOW registering your truck for GVW higher then MFG GVWR
No Statues/Citations for exceeding GVWR
He was told by people on this forum that all he need to do was weigh the truck and subtract the rear axle weights for the GAWR and that was his max pin weight his truck could handle legally.
Correct.......difference between RAWR and actual weight on Rear Axle is the MAX weight one can add
That is what he did and the difference was 3100 pounds so he purchased a toy hauler with a 2900 pound dry pin weight.
INCORRECT!!
3100# was difference so 3100# would be the MAX he could add to Rear Axle W/O exceeding the RAWR
2900# DRY WEIGHT is NOT what he should have used....
**should have used 20-25% of trailer GVWR for WET PIN
Advice/Information WAS correct
HIS interpretation/understanding was NOT
I would bet NO ONE told him a 2015 F250 was correct truck for a 18,500 Trailer...PERIOD!
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How many of the above statements can be labeled as “Bad Information” by just reading your vehicle user manual, manufactures tow guides, and even the newer door stickers. The new door stickers say right on them “Must Not Exceed Any Of These Values” and list MAX pin and tongue weights which is less than ‘Payload rating”. They also reference the J2807 SAE (Society or Automotive Engineers) which has a requirement of not exceeding vehicles GVWR during testing.
In the new 2021 towing guide Ford put in a lot of information about towing both trailers and 5th wheels. They also now have a picture showing that GVWR and GCWR“ Must Not Be Exceeded” for those that have problems with the written word and need a picture.
I showed him the picture below and we looked in his 2015 owners manual and it also stated not to exceed the GVWR and this when he realized that he was given “Bad Information” on this forum. When he came to this forum he was looking for max RV he could pull with his truck and was just shopping for an RV. He purchased the RV based on the information given on this forum using axle ratings and ignoring GVWR. One of the deciding factors was the high post counts give the person more credibility over someone with fewer post counts but that’s not always true.
The information below is from this URL https://www.fleet.ford.com/content/d...owingGuide.pdf
I'm just not sure how anyone can say that GVWR is just for warranty issues and can be exceeded.
__________________
2020 Newmar Baystar 3005 Gas V10 - 2020 Jeep Rubicon
1280 Watts Solar - Victron MultiPlus-II 12/3000/120-50 120V Inverter
300 Amp Lithium Battery
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09-09-2021, 10:42 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Manhattan (Little Apple) Kansas
Posts: 2,476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit
GVWR is just for warranty and registration and wasn’t important nor unsafe to exceed.
Correct.........many states ALLOW registering your truck for GVW higher then MFG GVWR
No Statues/Citations for exceeding GVWR
[
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I think even more interesting was he wanted to talk to someone that knew what they were talking about so we stopped by a DOT Weigh Station and talk to one of the enforcement officers. He lectured him about being over GVWR and all manufacturing specs are NOT safe to exceed and could cause problems if he got into an accident. He showed him the CAT scale ticket and he was told if was towing now he would give him a ticket and he would not be allowed to move the truck till he found a tow vehicle that is the correct DOT Class and towing capacities. He said one of the most popular tickets written are towing over the DOT Class Ratings and his F250 had a Class 2 with 10,000 pound GVW limit and he was way over that.
I ask if the DMV could increase your payload thru registration. He just laugh and said, we can’t give you a ticket for being over registration weight which isn't a rating but we have a lot of safety-type tickets that we stop the vehicle from leaving that we can use instead. DMV doesn’t have the authority to increase the GVWR or payload or certify a vehicle with a higher DOT class rating. He also said if it was that easy we would have the box trucks carry as much as the Class 8 trucks.
Here is what DVM would have to do to make exceeding a weight assigned to a Class Ratings by DOT.
This truck had a 10,000 GVWR and is a Class 2 truck. In order to exceed the 10,000 pounds, you need to update the Class of Vehicle to a Class 3 truck. To update the GVWR and the Class of the truck you have to submit a VSO through the truck manufacture for approval. If you are approved to increase or decrease the DOT Class of truck you will get a new VIN with position 4 indicating the new class and a new GVWR. You will also be required to carry approved paperwork in the truck at all times. The safety requirements and emissions for each class of truck differ. The exceeding Class of trucks is enforceable by DOT. If you are caught towing over your class rating IE F250 Class 2 10000 GVWR you can be ticketed and you won’t be allowed to leave till you have the proper Class truck with the proper towing capacities and pass a safety inspection by DOT. But I know that you knew that already.
Just another example of "Bad Information" on this forum.
https://www.worktruckonline.com/1458...d-how-its-done
__________________
2020 Newmar Baystar 3005 Gas V10 - 2020 Jeep Rubicon
1280 Watts Solar - Victron MultiPlus-II 12/3000/120-50 120V Inverter
300 Amp Lithium Battery
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