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Old 01-15-2022, 11:14 AM   #1
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GM promising electric HD trucks by 2035

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2022/01...rucks-by-2035/

I kind of hesitated to post this. It tends to get people aggravated and aggressive. I believe we need to start envisioning the future. It is coming whether we like it or not. I don't see many alternatives to a relatively clean BEV (battery electric vehicle) just yet for a HD pickup truck.

Heck, if they offer decent range when towing and are within a reasonable price range, I'm all for it. An EV should have gobs of torque for climbing hills and accelerating.
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Old 01-15-2022, 12:40 PM   #2
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I'm all for electric vehicles. I would dearly love to have an electric side-by-side with a range of 200 miles or so - instead of having to listen to the roar of the engine all day long, just the sound of the tires on the dirt.

But this world has a long way to go before we have "clean" energy. Last government figures I saw state that we still get 80% of our electricity from burning fossil fuels. So really when we drive our electric vehicles we're still running on fossil fuels. Where is all that "clean" energy going to come from?
Seems like every time a new solar or wind farm is proposed there are massive protests against them. Here in Nevada, not far from me a new source of geothermal energy was discovered and a geothermal power plant proposed. Even though the site is 100 miles from the nearest town, the lawsuits started immediately:
https://www.nevadaappeal.com/news/20...ahontan-valley)

All these electric vehicles run on lithium batteries and so far most of the lithium for these batteries has to come from over seas. We have lithium in this country but any time a mine is proposed the lawsuits and protests start. Three proposed major lithium mines in Nevada are on hold because of lawsuits from environmental protesters. Again, these mines are many, many miles from any population centers.

So until we get the infrastructure in place to support these millions of new electric vehicles, building them just doesn't make much sense. Too many areas of the country are now suffering brownouts and blackouts when electrical demand is high. What's going to happen when we add millions of electric vehicles to the power grid demand?
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Old 01-15-2022, 12:55 PM   #3
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Environmentalists complaining about a geothermal power facility and lithium mines is super-hypocritical. It seems like it is so difficult anymore to accomplish any sort of development of natural resources in this nation.

I love the unintended irony in the quote from the plaintiff celebrating the stoppage of the geothermal project: " . . everyone who loves Nevadaís biodiversity can breathe easier.Ē
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Old 01-15-2022, 01:44 PM   #4
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Discussion about infrastructure, fossil fuel driven power plants and such are best left for a different thread. I am simply discussing the vehicle itself.

As of today, if I had a choice between a turbodiesel dually longbed crew cab or an EV dually crewcab longbed, and both offered ranges +/- 15% of each other, pricing within +/- 15% of each other, I think I'd be tempted by the EV. I am convinced electricity cost is far outweighed by diesel cost, and I'm also convinced maintenance and repair of the diesel is much higher. Where I'm not sure is potential resale value after 5-10 years. Resale of diesels might drop like a rock when EVs become commonplace, but we won't know until we're there.
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Old 01-15-2022, 02:11 PM   #5
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I wonder what kind of weight differences we'll see between a diesel and ev with batteries? I'm all for electric as long as the technology keeps progressing between now and then and I see no reason it won't. I don't really buy into it from the environmental side of it because it trashes the planet also...just in a different way.
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Old 01-15-2022, 02:35 PM   #6
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I wonder what kind of weight differences we'll see between a diesel and ev with batteries? I'm all for electric as long as the technology keeps progressing between now and then and I see no reason it won't. I don't really buy into it from the environmental side of it because it trashes the planet also...just in a different way.
I guess we'll have to waith a bit for info. They are far from production ready, annd I'm not sure we can base estimates from the 1/2 ton that is coming out in a year either.

On smaller passenger vehicles that offer both a gas and EV powertrain the vehicle typically winds up 15-25% heavier with an EV powertrain due to battery weight. On those, the powertrain is usually a light, smaller 4 cyl. gas offering.

When removing a bulky, heavy diesel engine with a heavy transmission, transfer case and a bunch of rotating shafts, heavy exhaust, a bunch of emissions stuff and DEF tank, I wonder if there really will be much of a weight penalty. Seems to me there is an awful lot of rom to put batteries underneath once the powertrain is cleared out, probably room for a "frunk" as well!
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Old 01-15-2022, 05:49 PM   #7
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Heavy duty EVs will come someday and be very good, it's just not today or any time in the next few years. Lithium may or may not be the power source of choice. The extraction issues will be solved in one way or another. Personally I think that there will be a breakthrough in battery technology or fuel cell technology that will make EVs of any size practical. Today EVs are probably best suited to commuting and short trips, but that won't last forever. 125 years ago they said man would never fly, look at us now.
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Old 01-16-2022, 02:19 PM   #8
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Diesel stores 37kWh per gallon.

Assuming that the motive traction equipment (the motors) of an electric truck is twice as efficient as a diesel drivetrain, that means that a diesel truck is going to need a 500kWh battery bank to have similar range and duty cycles as a legacy powered truck.

If you can ensure that the truck will return to a hi Ampere charger, it will work.

However if you consider what could happen at Quartzite (for example) if all those electric RVs showed up instead of the current ICE vehicles, more electrical infrastructure will need to be built.

Until that happens, EV trucks will only be good for an out-and-back duty cycle, because you can transport 50,000kWh's to a remote fuel station in a few hours, and recharge 100 EV trucks doing so.
With the current infrastructure, there just isn't enough current.

I see many trades people jumping on these EV trucks for urban jungle trips, but for RV use, I see more money on the grid must be spent.
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Old 01-16-2022, 02:27 PM   #9
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Diesel stores 37kWh per gallon.

Assuming that the motive traction equipment (the motors) of an electric truck is twice as efficient as a diesel drivetrain, that means that a diesel truck is going to need a 500kWh battery bank to have similar range and duty cycles as a legacy powered truck.

If you can ensure that the truck will return to a hi Ampere charger, it will work.

However if you consider what could happen at Quartzite (for example) if all those electric RVs showed up instead of the current ICE vehicles, more electrical infrastructure will need to be built.

Until that happens, EV trucks will only be good for an out-and-back duty cycle, because you can transport 50,000kWh's to a remote fuel station in a few hours, and recharge 100 EV trucks doing so.
With the current infrastructure, there just isn't enough current.

I see many trades people jumping on these EV trucks for urban jungle trips, but for RV use, I see more money on the grid must be spent.
Sure. But infrastructure doesnít stay static. Using quartzite for example. 3 years ago there were zero Superchargers or DC fast chargers in quartzite. Now there are 40. All between 250 and 350 kw. And there are more in permitting and planning. Those trucks are 10 years away. Iím sure the infrastructure will be drastically different by then.
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Old 01-16-2022, 03:49 PM   #10
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Sure. But infrastructure doesnít stay static. Using quartzite for example. 3 years ago there were zero Superchargers or DC fast chargers in quartzite. Now there are 40. All between 250 and 350 kw. And there are more in permitting and planning. Those trucks are 10 years away. Iím sure the infrastructure will be drastically different by then.
We need to look at the backhaul.
To have 40 250kW chargers is all good, but what are they 'plugged into'?
I have a supercharger spot near me, all 250kW units, but they're supported by a 400V 1000A transformer...
Therefore only two of those Big-Boy chargers can run at full speed.
The utility company can't provide more amperage on the existing plant.

The smaller the town, the weaker the infrastructure....

It will get better, but when I'm out in Greenwood, I'm not going to hold my breath thinking that I can charge a 500kWh battery within a couple of hours.
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Old 01-16-2022, 04:19 PM   #11
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Old 01-16-2022, 08:32 PM   #12
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Need a piece of electrical tape over those batteries
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Old 01-16-2022, 08:50 PM   #13
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As someone who’s owned pick up trucks for almost 35 years I don’t think I can swallow the cost of a EV truck. The Ford lightning XLT which is nowhere near top of the line with extended battery pack is a 75k truck. I can’t imagine how much the heavy Duty trucks will cost.
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Old 01-16-2022, 09:04 PM   #14
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As someone whoís owned pick up trucks for almost 35 years I donít think I can swallow the cost of a EV truck. The Ford lightning XLT which is nowhere near top of the line with extended battery pack is a 75k truck. I canít imagine how much the heavy Duty trucks will cost.
The current top of the line diesels are over 100k. I can see 115k for an EV as I'd make it up in fuel savings as well as less maintenance.
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