Gooseneck vs 5th Wheel?

[Nlambert]

Originally Posted by Jerry Burks

I was interested in the Reese Goosebox for my new Alliance 5th wheel and checked with the manufacturer. They told me the only LCI approved solution is the "LCI Gooseneck Connect" for the LCI Spacesaver Chassis used on my camper.

However, while rather inexpensive, this pinbox looks kind of primitive to me compared with the Reese Goosebox (no dampers). After all, I left the pinbox alone and got the Pullrite Superslide hitch. Big, heavy thing but works well.

LCI approves use of the Reese Goosebox with their frames. If Alliance told you something different they're unfortunately wrong. Prior to converting my first fifth wheel to the GB, I spoke with multiple reps at LCI and all confirmed that it is approved for use on any of their frames.


After we switched over to the Reese GB a few years ago we will never switch back to a traditional 5th wheel hitch again. It's easy to hook up once you learn the skill and keeps the bed free. No hitches to fuss with, don't have to worry about high hitching, jaws not locking properly, etc....

I originally had their Gen 1 16k GB on my last fiver, and with our larger one we have gone with the Gen 2 20k GB. Cannot say enough good things about it.

[Nlambert]

Originally Posted by 4x4ord

The twisting force on the fiver frame is the same regardless of what kind of adapter you use or Goosebox. If you want an in bed ball to put the same twisting force on the fiver frame as a fifth wheel hitch you would have to raise the bed ball to the height of a fifth wheel hitch.

Not true. The design of the goosebox changes the applied force to match that of a traditional pinbox and hitch. There is no difference in the force applied to a fifth wheel frame by a GB and a traditional pin box.

This is direct from the LCI and Reese engineers, and that is why it was approved for use on the LCI frames.

[JEDDIE]

Originally Posted by Jshopes81

I got the andersen and i noticed some sway because the andersen hitch cant be mounted in front of the rear axle. It didnt really bother me but i wanted to see if a 5th wheel was better so i sold the andersen and got a bw companion. The companion is awesome. I dont regret that decision one bit.

Actually you can just rotate the whole hitch 180* in the box and reinstall to get the hitch point ahead of the rear axle. You probably wouldn't want to do that with a short box, though.

In my 6'6" box, I lost only 20# off my front end with the standard install--arrow points to the tailgate. I have the socket for the ball in the forward position. No issues at all.

[Jshopes81]

Originally Posted by JEDDIE

Actually you can just rotate the whole hitch 180* in the box and reinstall to get the hitch point ahead of the rear axle. You probably wouldn't want to do that with a short box, though.

In my 6'6" box, I lost only 20# off my front end with the standard install--arrow points to the tailgate. I have the socket for the ball in the forward position. No issues at all.

Their directions say ball towards tailgate, which is behind the axle. Im pretty sure i even remember the stickers on the hitch saying which way it went.

[4x4ord]

Originally Posted by Nlambert

Not true. The design of the goosebox changes the applied force to match that of a traditional pinbox and hitch. There is no difference in the force applied to a fifth wheel frame by a GB and a traditional pin box.

This is direct from the LCI and Reese engineers, and that is why it was approved for use on the LCI frames.

Possibly the reason the Reese engineers sanction the Goosebox is that the shock absorbing capability of the Goosebox does more good than the harm caused by the added leverage and torque created from its lower attachment point in the bed of the truck. There is absolutely no way that the forces placed on a 5th wheel frame are the same with a Goosebox vs a traditional pin box and a 5th wheel hitch installed in the truck.

[Palmeris]

Gen Y executive

[tuffr2]

This is a good thread. So here are the options to connect a 5th wheel to your truck.

1. Strandard 5th wheel hitch connected to rails or a puck system.
2. Anderson Ultimate Hitch.
3. Reese Goose box
4. Gen Y hitch
5. B&W hitch connected to the B&W turn over ball.

I towed a 40' horse trailer with living quarters about 500 miles with a friend with his Ram 3500 DRW with a hauler bed. I drove. At this same time I had a DRW Ford truck with a standard Reese Elite 25,000lb hitch using the puck system. I towed a 37' Sunny Brook 5th wheel Bristol Bay with a Mor-Ryde pin box. I could not feel much of a concernable difference between towing the horse trailer or my 5th wheel.

I did notice the horse trailer had large pieces of angle iron welded in place to support it's goose ball connection point.
I also noticed that hooking the safety chains was interesting. With the hauler bed my friend hooked the chains from the side leaning in and hooking them up. With a pick up bed you would need to do the from the back where the 5th is. That would make it a bit clumsy with the tail gate down IMHO.

[Nlambert]

Originally Posted by 4x4ord

Possibly the reason the Reese engineers sanction the Goosebox is that the shock absorbing capability of the Goosebox does more good than the harm caused by the added leverage and torque created from its lower attachment point in the bed of the truck. There is absolutely no way that the forces placed on a 5th wheel frame are the same with a Goosebox vs a traditional pin box and a 5th wheel hitch installed in the truck.

I guess someone should tell LCI and Reese that..... they didn't seem to get the memo. According to Reese, they worked with LCI engineers to develop the Goosebox.

[Nlambert]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

This is a good thread. So here are the options to connect a 5th wheel to your truck.

1. Strandard 5th wheel hitch connected to rails or a puck system.
2. Anderson Ultimate Hitch.
3. Reese Goose box
4. Gen Y hitch
5. B&W hitch connected to the B&W turn over ball.

I towed a 40' horse trailer with living quarters about 500 miles with a friend with his Ram 3500 DRW with a hauler bed. I drove. At this same time I had a DRW Ford truck with a standard Reese Elite 25,000lb hitch using the puck system. I towed a 37' Sunny Brook 5th wheel Bristol Bay with a Mor-Ryde pin box. I could not feel much of a concernable difference between towing the horse trailer or my 5th wheel.

I did notice the horse trailer had large pieces of angle iron welded in place to support it's goose ball connection point.
I also noticed that hooking the safety chains was interesting. With the hauler bed my friend hooked the chains from the side leaning in and hooking them up. With a pick up bed you would need to do the from the back where the 5th is. That would make it a bit clumsy with the tail gate down IMHO.

It's not bad on the Ram but I can't speak for others. With the placement of the rear pucks, you can pretty easily lean in and connect/disconnect the chains with the tailgate down.

[4x4ord]

Originally Posted by Nlambert

I guess someone should tell LCI and Reese that..... they didn't seem to get the memo. According to Reese, they worked with LCI engineers to develop the Goosebox.

They have the memo. Ie they absolutely know that the Goosebox greatly increases the torsional force exerted on the 5ver’s frame. I’m not saying that a Goosebox will necessarily damage the frame of a fiver. If Reese and LCI sanction it’s use they must feel confident that they will make more money selling Gooseboxes than they will ever spend warranting damaged frames. The airbag on the Goosebox likely helps at preventing shock induced cracking of the frame so there is good and bad that comes with its use.

[PulNSerenity]

Originally Posted by Palmeris

Gen Y executive

I am not going to buy a whole new rig just yet but this does look nice. I still worry about how much frame twist is happening. Many gooseneck flatbed trailers have a torque tube to assist with this but to my knowledge 5th wheel frames do not. My 5ver hitch articulates some side to side & the metal is dinged on both sides, so I know it hits those stops often. With a gooseneck what stops it? On REALLY uneven ground is it possible for the trailer to hit your bed sides? Grant it you shouldn't be driving your 5ver on REALLY uneven ground but it makes me wonder how much frame twisting goes on with a goosneck style hitch.

[Nlambert]

Originally Posted by 4x4ord

They have the memo. Ie they absolutely know that the Goosebox greatly increases the torsional force exerted on the 5ver’s frame. I’m not saying that a Goosebox will necessarily damage the frame of a fiver. If Reese and LCI sanction it’s use they must feel confident that they will make more money selling Gooseboxes than they will ever spend warranting damaged frames. The airbag on the Goosebox likely helps at preventing shock induced cracking of the frame so there is good and bad that comes with its use.

Except they don't. Go find a Goosebox on a fifth wheel and study the design. Force gets reduced at every joint. On the GB, there are 2 90 degree joints (pivot point). The first articulation joint is in a very similar (or the same on some pin boxes) location as where a standard fifth wheel pinbox attaches to a 5th wheel hitch. So the force at that point is very similar, if not equal.

The airbag at that joint is there to help dampen any shock that might occur from rough roads, etc... to the trailer frame. Most pinboxes don't have that extra feature, but a few higher end boxes like a 5th Airborne do incorporate that technology.

That's the only articulation joint on a 5th wheel hitch, but Reese has one more towards the ball. That is where the shocks are mounted. The shocks help prevent chucking (also similar to a 5th Airborne). So even though the actual hitch point is lower, the additional articulation joint in a Goosebox cancels out the additional stress on a frame.

Lastly, since the GB is not a vertical adapter, but is instead a diagonal box the torque applied is spread out more evenly so that the torsion force closely matches that of a traditional pinbox.

[Nlambert]

Originally Posted by PulNSerenity

I am not going to buy a whole new rig just yet but this does look nice. I still worry about how much frame twist is happening. Many gooseneck flatbed trailers have a torque tube to assist with this but to my knowledge 5th wheel frames do not. My 5ver hitch articulates some side to side & the metal is dinged on both sides, so I know it hits those stops often. With a gooseneck what stops it? On REALLY uneven ground is it possible for the trailer to hit your bed sides? Grant it you shouldn't be driving your 5ver on REALLY uneven ground but it makes me wonder how much frame twisting goes on with a goosneck style hitch.

Yes it's completely possible to touch the bed rails with your 5ver using a Goosebox. It can articulate more than with a 5th wheel hitch because it rides solely on a round ball. There's nothing to bind up (5th wheel hitches cannot articulate side to side nearly as much) so the torque applied will be less. With a standard fifth wheel hitch the hitch head is only going to move so far before contacting those stops. Any movement past the stops transfers to the trailer frame as twist. That's greatly reduced (if not eliminated) with a gooseball. The limiting factor is your bedrail height and the baseplate of the Goosebox. With enough articulation it could contact the truck bed floor, but it would likely wipe out the bed rails first.

I've never had an issue with mine and it moves more freely when going over uneven terrain, like backing into or out of an unlevel campsite. I have gotten within 1/2" of the bedrails though in a really bad camping spot, so I do pay extra attention to that.

[4x4ord]

Originally Posted by Nlambert

Except they don't. Go find a Goosebox on a fifth wheel and study the design. Force gets reduced at every joint. On the GB, there are 2 90 degree joints (pivot point). The first articulation joint is in a very similar (or the same on some pin boxes) location as where a standard fifth wheel pinbox attaches to a 5th wheel hitch. So the force at that point is very similar, if not equal.

The airbag at that joint is there to help dampen any shock that might occur from rough roads, etc... to the trailer frame. Most pinboxes don't have that extra feature, but a few higher end boxes like a 5th Airborne do incorporate that technology.

That's the only articulation joint on a 5th wheel hitch, but Reese has one more towards the ball. That is where the shocks are mounted. The shocks help prevent chucking (also similar to a 5th Airborne). So even though the actual hitch point is lower, the additional articulation joint in a Goosebox cancels out the additional stress on a frame.

Lastly, since the GB is not a vertical adapter, but is instead a diagonal box the torque applied is spread out more evenly so that the torsion force closely matches that of a traditional pinbox.

Yes the Goosebox incorporates some shock absorbing design features that will prevent certain stresses and chucking.
No .... the "diagonal box" design of the Goose box does absolutely nothing to reduce the torsional force at the point where the pin box fastens to the fiver's frame.

This is not at all complicated ... A truck pulling on the kingpin of a fiver exerts a torsional force on the upper frame of the fiver and a tortional force on the frame of the truck. The forces are equal to the length of the torque arms times the horizontal force being exerted by the tow vehicle. Consider the following situation: If I use my B&W companion, put my truck in 4 low and pull my trailer onto some blocks to level the fiver with a force of 6000 lbs the torsional force being transferred into the fiver frame would be roughly 6000 lbs x 1 foot (length of the torque arm) = 6000 lb ft. The torsional force being transferred into my truck frame is about 6000 lbs x 1 1/3 feet (height of the Companion or length of the torque arm) = 8000 lbs. If I remove the B&W and move the attachment point down 16 inches lower the torque exerted on the fiver frame is going to be 6000 lbs x 2 1/3 feet or nearly 14000 lbs, The torsional force on the truck frame is basically removed. It's that simple.