Gut check on SRW Ford Super Duty capabilities

[Wellibe]

It was inevitable - the wife and I have started daydreaming about a 5th wheel. Not really serious yet, but it got me thinking about the new-to-us truck that a 5th wheel would require. I don't really have any brand loyalties, but I've been looking at Fords because they seem to be more available and affordable on the used market (new is not in the budget).

The 5th wheels that we're thinking about are in the 27-30 ft OAL range and around 11-12,000 lb GVWR. So not huge as 5th wheels go.

Most of the used trucks I'm seeing for sale are SRW F250s and 350s with the 6.2 gas V8, 6 speed transmission, and 3.73 gears. The 250s typically are 10,000 lbs GVWR, and the 350s are either 10,000 or 11,500 GVWR. I've checked out specs to the extent I can find them, and I've run VINs from some of the newer trucks through Ford's towing calculator (https://www.ford.com/support/towing-calculator).

The 10,000 lb trucks seem like they won't cut it, as curb weight is around 6,700 and payload is around 3,300. A 12,000 lb 5th wheel is likely to have a loaded pin weight of about 2,400-3,000 lbs, clearly not leaving enough for people, dog, and cargo. Plus the pin weight rating, according to the towing calculator, is only 1,750-1,875 lbs.

The 11,500 GVWR trucks seem to have plenty of cargo rating, but the pin weight rating for most of these trucks is the same as for the 10,000 lb trucks, typically 1,750 to 1,875. I did see one SRW F-350 that was rated for 2,300 lbs of pin weight, which is closer but still not adequate.

With the 6.2 gas powertrain, GCWR is typically 19,500. A 6,700 lb truck plus 12,000 lb 5th wheel = 18,700, so again, not enough room for people/dogs/cargo. The 6.7 diesel gets you plenty of GCWR room, but that doesn't do you any good with such a low pin weight rating.

And yet I see lots of people towing 5th wheels with SRW trucks. Are they all overloaded, or am I missing something? Obviously the safe route would be to go with a DRW diesel, but in the used market, those are rarer than hen's teeth and a lot more expensive.

I'm not exactly a newbie RVer, but certainly not an old hand. I do know better than to let wishful thinking influence my decisions. Your thoughts are appreciated, TIA.

[MooseCountry]

We recently purchased a 2024 Ram 3500 4x4 Tradesman Crew Cab long bed with the HO 6.7L Cummins and 3.73-1 gear ratio. All of our current trucks are the very barebone models with no additional personal comfort features. Our 2016 Ram 2500 4x4 Tradesman Crew Cab short bed came with the sole option of the Power Wagon off-road package with the 6.4L and a 4.10-1 gear ratio. Our 1998 Chevrolet K1500 Extended Cab short bed is a Cheyenne with the 5.0L V8 and a stick shift and a 3.73-1 gear ratio. No power windows and a cheap bench seat. Additional comfort features cuts the payload capacity as well as towing capabilities. Also, the sticker price is much higher for the additional optional equipment.

I believe our new truck has a 12,300 lb GVWR based on the 2024 Ram towing chart which may differ than the sticker on the door.

[Old-Biscuit]

I have a 2007 Dodge RAM 3500 SRW bought it new
10100 GVWR
6200# RAWR

Bought a 32' 5th wheel that had a 14,373 GVWR

We FTd for 7 yrs
It had a 3080# WET Pin which put the truck 600# over GVWR and right at the RAWR

Just sold that 5vr a few months ago.......still have the truck (Daily Driver)

For 17 yrs we towed that 5th wheel all over the USA......FTng for 7 yrs traveling weekly and past 10 yrs camping

I am not concerned with the trucks GVWR..........but will not exceed axle/tire load ratings
*Truck ran/towed great and is still running great

A newer 350/3500 SRW will tow a 14K GVWR 5vr just fine

[KD4UPL]

I would agree to look at tire and axke weight. Truck camper owners (I was one) run well over GVWR all the time. So do most of the farmers hauling hay and the construction guys hauling equipment.

[MFL]

Read this recent thread, in this same tow vehicle section.
(5th Wheel v Puller)

A Ford 6.2 6-speed with 3.73 gears will be happiest towing a 10K gross weight FW, but can do the 12K, if you run in 4th-5th gear at higher rpm.

[Wellibe]

Originally Posted by MooseCountry

Additional comfort features cuts the payload capacity as well as towing capabilities. Also, the sticker price is much higher for the additional optional equipment.

Yes, I do try to avoid higher trim levels. But we do long trips and do need a certain level of creature comforts. Cheap seats won't cut it. I find that in Fords, the XLT trim level is about the right balance. We might consider an XL, but would have to sit in it in person to know for sure.

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

I have a 2007 Dodge RAM 3500 SRW bought it new
10100 GVWR
6200# RAWR

Bought a 32' 5th wheel that had a 14,373 GVWR

We FTd for 7 yrs
It had a 3080# WET Pin which put the truck 600# over GVWR and right at the RAWR

Just sold that 5vr a few months ago.......still have the truck (Daily Driver)

For 17 yrs we towed that 5th wheel all over the USA......FTng for 7 yrs traveling weekly and past 10 yrs camping

I am not concerned with the trucks GVWR..........but will not exceed axle/tire load ratings
*Truck ran/towed great and is still running great

A newer 350/3500 SRW will tow a 14K GVWR 5vr just fine

Originally Posted by KD4UPL

I would agree to look at tire and axke weight. Truck camper owners (I was one) run well over GVWR all the time. So do most of the farmers hauling hay and the construction guys hauling equipment.

I hear you about axle rating. Easy enough to see that on the door sticker, but how do you know how much of that rating is used up by the curb weight of the truck? Weighing isn't an option when you're shopping for trucks.

I'm also wondering if anyone has an idea why Ford is giving these trucks such skimpy pin weight ratings, even on trucks that have over 4,000 lbs of payload capacity. Their towing calculator just spits out the number, it doesn't tell you why. Trim level and option packages don't seem to matter much; most are coming up between 1,750 and 1,875, with that one outlier that was rated at 2,300. All of which would be inadequate.

[MooseCountry]

We live within the Colorado Rockies at high altitude with a continuous 21 mile grade of up to 10% on our local highway which has a very flat top summit at 11K feet. Our Ram 2500 6.4L screams at a very high RPM in the low gears towing both up and down it with a much less feel of the 410 horsepower advertised to pull our 9,995 ORV TT.

Our new Ram 3500 HO 6.7L is totally fine with the turbo at high altitude towing it. No high RPM revving and engine scream. Don't feel the power loss and the exhaust brake Is amazing heading down.

We tow very long distances across the USA in all directions, but it's at 4,000 feet elevation and much higher all around here in the Mountain States. We haved towed 800 miles west to Reno and then across the Sierra where it drops below 4,000 feet. Also, towed out east where near Kansas it gets below it. Not much north and south that isn't high altitude.

The turbo diesel will be of a great benefit over our non-turbo gas at our altitude. Wasn't sold on diesel at first due to our cold climate with the starting. I just installed a engine heater cord on the Cummins. During Thanksgiving my son and I will finish the wiring out to the pole barn where they're parked so that we can plug the Cummins in there. Might put an engine block heater in the 6.4L too once we get electrical power. It's not happy with negative Fahrenheit temperatures with some noisy cold starts even with the 0W-40 full synthetic motor oil.

Ford towing recommendation for high altitude...

[Wellibe]

Originally Posted by Wellibe

I'm also wondering if anyone has an idea why Ford is giving these trucks such skimpy pin weight ratings, even on trucks that have over 4,000 lbs of payload capacity. Their towing calculator just spits out the number, it doesn't tell you why. Trim level and option packages don't seem to matter much; most are coming up between 1,750 and 1,875, with that one outlier that was rated at 2,300. All of which would be inadequate.

Well, I answered my own question, I think. It seems that the calculator is just multiplying the max trailer weight by 0.15 to get the pin weight rating. So it appears that it isn't really a "rating" at all. Kind of misleading, as 15% is supposed to be the minimum pin weight for a 5th wheel or gooseneck.

Edit: Just confirmed this by running a SRW diesel with a 19,000 lb tow rating. The calculator returned a pin weight of 2,850.

[MooseCountry]

15% too on our 2024 Ram 3500 4x4 SRW with the HO Cummins and Aisin per the tow charts, but with a 25,120 lb tow rating. 3,768 lb pin weight on a Ram 4x4 versus the Ford's 2,850 lb on a 2WD? We need the 4WD here. 2WD is going to be a different pin weight.

Now I'll have to look for 5th Wheels in the future versus the four trailers that we currently own are all bumper pulls. Got the truck to do it, now the trailer. Costing me too much just to think. We've been going to the fairgrounds trailer shows every year and walking through the 5th wheels.

The seats aren't bad in our Tradesmans, but they aren't anything near as nice as our son's Ram 2500 4x4 Laredo of which I've towed with from Oregon to Virginia. 6.7L Cummins and a stick shift with all the optional equipment are rare. We still own two (1978 and 1998) Chevrolet 1/2 ton base model pickups, those seats were bad when new.

[Camp CA]

Suggest looking at a 1-ton long bed diesel. That will offer flexibility for your first and subsequent fifth wheel purchases. We had a 3/4-ton short bed diesel SRW for 15 years and pulled fifth wheel trailers up to 14,000 lbs. Then we purchased a 1-ton long bed diesel DRW with 14000 lb GVWR. It has given us a lot more flexibility for fifth wheel selection.

[JIMNLIN]

And yet I see lots of people towing 5th wheels with SRW trucks. Are they all overloaded, or am I missing something?

Depends on which F350 srw is used.
Looking at fleet Ford specs shows the F350 srw with over a dozen different gvwr packages ranging from 10000 lbs up to 12400 lbs....but more importantly three different rawr from 6340/6780/7230 lbs.
Ford also markets different gvwrs/gawrs for the same cab/model/drive train selections.

The F250 has have a higher 11250 gvwr than the 10000 gvwr F350 srw.

Without any scaled axle load numbers I wouldn't assume any F250/350 srw on the road is overloaded. Gotta' know that particular trucks gvwr/gawrs.

[Dave Pelletier]

Yes, many SRW trucks towing 5ers (and truck campers) are over their rated capacities and many are unaware or simply don't care.

Since you don't have the truck, I see little reason to get a 250 as the price difference is minimal. The 10,000 GVWR F 350's are a paper derate for insurance/licencing purposes - if you don't need that, avoid them - they are mechanically identical but why deal with being over the ratings if you don't need to be.

I agree that the "max pin weight" is a made up number; as long as you are within GVWR/Payload and GAWR then I would ignore that. Many ignore the GVWR/Payload as well, but I'd prefer to be within those ratings. 15% isn't enough pin weight just like the 10% for trailer tongue weight the manufacturer's all use

OBS mentions that a 1 ton SRW is enough for a 14,000 lb fiver which is exactly what I just posted on another thread; much beyond that a DRW is really a much better choice IMO.

Aside from all the ratings and capacities, you will want to stay on the small side with a 6.2/6 spd/3.73's......there is a big difference between that an a 7.3/10spd/4.30 and, of course, the 6.7 is a different animal as far as towing goes.

Good luck, sounds like you have a handle on it.

Cheers,
Dave

[Wellibe]

Originally Posted by Camp CA

Suggest looking at a 1-ton long bed diesel. That will offer flexibility for your first and subsequent fifth wheel purchases. We had a 3/4-ton short bed diesel SRW for 15 years and pulled fifth wheel trailers up to 14,000 lbs. Then we purchased a 1-ton long bed diesel DRW with 14000 lb GVWR. It has given us a lot more flexibility for fifth wheel selection.

What's the advantage of a long bed? My first inclination is to stick with a short bed to keep total rig length down, and for better maneuverability/parking when I'm not towing.

[Wellibe]

Originally Posted by Dave Pelletier

Yes, many SRW trucks towing 5ers (and truck campers) are over their rated capacities and many are unaware or simply don't care.

Since you don't have the truck, I see little reason to get a 250 as the price difference is minimal. The 10,000 GVWR F 350's are a paper derate for insurance/licencing purposes - if you don't need that, avoid them - they are mechanically identical but why deal with being over the ratings if you don't need to be.

I agree that the "max pin weight" is a made up number; as long as you are within GVWR/Payload and GAWR then I would ignore that. Many ignore the GVWR/Payload as well, but I'd prefer to be within those ratings. 15% isn't enough pin weight just like the 10% for trailer tongue weight the manufacturer's all use

OBS mentions that a 1 ton SRW is enough for a 14,000 lb fiver which is exactly what I just posted on another thread; much beyond that a DRW is really a much better choice IMO.

Aside from all the ratings and capacities, you will want to stay on the small side with a 6.2/6 spd/3.73's......there is a big difference between that an a 7.3/10spd/4.30 and, of course, the 6.7 is a different animal as far as towing goes.

Good luck, sounds like you have a handle on it.

Cheers,
Dave

Yeah, I've seen on a couple of other threads where people say that the 6.2 is pretty much maxed out with a 10,000 lb trailer. Makes sense; the horsepower rating is basically the same as the 5.0 in my F150, and the torque is only a little more. So seems like I should look for a diesel, or the 6.8 or 7.3 gassers.