GVWR Sticker and Alterations Debate!

[Beausdog]

Originally Posted by JIMNLIN

3665RE makes a good point; "Florida doesn’t differentiate between private and commercial vehicles in this respect,"

I would add I don't know of any state that has seperate weight laws for a private use vehicle and commercial vehicle or that exempts RV from overweight violations.

As private haulers we don't have to declare a gross weight or declare a gross combined weight. However were limited by the trucks axle/tire load ratings. Over those and you have a overloaded vehicle.

Keep in mind a overload vehicle can be;

a registered gross weight violation....

a registered gross combined weight violation ....

a axle weight violation (any of the truck or trailer axles) ...

Hopefully the bigger rig will have higher axle/tire capacities as just a higher GVWR gains nothing but possible higher tags fees.

Jimnlin and 3665,

Yes you are correct as florida does not distinguish the overweight laws between commercial and private vehicles. HOWEVER, if you read the statute (off the top of my head i believe its subsection 316.535 or in that area) the overweight laws they refer to are on a table within the statute which correlates with the 49 USC laws detailing 20k lbs per axle, 34k lbs per tandem etc. (Clearly referring to commercial motor carriers) but if you are in an RV trailer or 5er and are over 20k lbs per axle or their breakdown of tandems etc, you have alot more issues (probably mentally than anyone here can help with)

When you read a states weight laws, dont just read the part that says that its illegal to be "overweight as stated by law" without going to the state law they refer to. Nowhere does it say GVWR or GCWR in the law for florida. (Please show me the statute if im incorrect).

I have looked at alot (not all) of states laws, and yes you are correct that most do not differentiate private or commercial but I have yet to find one that does not mirror the fed statute as far as axle weight. Im sure some maybe have it or have GAWR stipulations but if you would like the florida laws im referencing, i will be more than happy to paste them here.

Again, back to my last post, i have now posted yet another states law, and have yet to see any people put a statute contradicting my original post. Im tired of OPINIONS and PREFERENCES show me the STATUTES.

[Beausdog]

Ok...also i saw FMVSS referenced. To be clear a standard is not a law! It is just that, if FMVSS says you operate your vehicle on the right side of the road and you drive on the left, you are not cited for operating in violation of the FMVSS you are cited on the fact you violated a federal or state statute which in turn makes it law. Any regulatory body can enforce standards amongst the industry they regulate, (i.e. commercial vehicles) but once sold to a private individual, regulatory standards (designed to protect consumers) must be governed by law duly passed at the federal level by senate, house and signed by the president, or the specific states requirement to pass a law which is usually a similar process. Of their is no statute governing a specific regulatory requirement on a private entity, then it is as such. This is why federal statute's refer to commercial vehicles, and are loose at best. When congress passed the laws, they passed the regulatory language of DOT in respect to interstate commerce and never amended the language to encompass private rigs.

I find it hard to believe that states can and will enforce a standard turned to law by the state on the basis of a sticker which the federal government regulated to be placed on a vehicle to educate a consumer and they themselves don't enact any law to make it binding and in turn a state makes it binding but no state requirement to have the sticker there in the first place as federal law only mandates it for new vehicles (which in turn would make it impossible to sell a used vehicle if the sticker was not on the post)

*in no way am i advocating any position or offering legal advice in any post on this forum. Just food for thought and you should consult with your lawyer.

[RustyJC]

Originally Posted by Beausdog

*in no way am i advocating any position or offering legal advice in any post on this forum.

Which makes it like, ummm, an OPINION, huh???

Rusty

[Beausdog]

Originally Posted by RustyJC

Which makes it like, ummm, an OPINION, huh???

Rusty

No..it's called a disclaimer, is that the best you have? If you would like to challenge my statements, put up your statute that shows me you are correct.

[RustyJC]

A bit on the argumentative side this morning, aren't we??

Rusty

[Beausdog]

Originally Posted by RustyJC

A bit on the argumentative side this morning, aren't we??

Rusty

Nope not at all

[BFlinn181]

State Law, Federal Law, blah, blah, blah. How about the laws of physics? Weight in or towed by a vehicle effects it's handling, braking, and SAFETY. Manmade laws don't change that. I drove a bunch of Dodge 15 passenger vans made in the 80's. They might have been rated for 15 passengers, but the tires weren't. We blew 3-5 tires a week hauling people around the roads of Wyoming. Later, as tire technology caught up, we never changed a tire in the next ten years.
Seems to me whenever you reach the upper design limits of a vehicle, you are in for issues. Why are so many here ready to argue legal definitions on issues of safety? I'm retired and trying to enjoy travel in a relaxed manner. I don't think trying to control a vehicle close to it's design capacity is relaxed retirement. It's a job for professionals.

[Beausdog]

Originally Posted by BFlinn181

State Law, Federal Law, blah, blah, blah. How about the laws of physics? Weight in or towed by a vehicle effects it's handling, braking, and SAFETY. Manmade laws don't change that. I drove a bunch of Dodge 15 passenger vans made in the 80's. They might have been rated for 15 passengers, but the tires weren't. We blew 3-5 tires a week hauling people around the roads of Wyoming. Later, as tire technology caught up, we never changed a tire in the next ten years.
Seems to me whenever you reach the upper design limits of a vehicle, you are in for issues. Why are so many here ready to argue legal definitions on issues of safety? I'm retired and trying to enjoy travel in a relaxed manner. I don't think trying to control a vehicle close to it's design capacity is relaxed retirement. It's a job for professionals.

Well, to be frank, i dont really care what people do, not my business, all i am doing is trying to get it through some people's thick heads that when they say something is illegal, they should base it off statute not their opinion. Some here say its illegal to exceed gvwr, gawr, gcwr. Im just asking they provide the statute that makes it illegal, others say you cant increase your cargo capacity with mods and that its illegal, i have showed by statute the ability and method of doing it. My bottom line is not law of physics and whether its smart or not, safe or not, and so on, its the opinionated statements of many here who either dont know or only read the portion they want to read and disregard the rest. Im not saying im right or wrong.....im saying if youbsay its illegal, cite it...or in other words for them to put up or shut up.

[3665RE]

Hi

The Federal regulations establish a limitation. This limitation can be used by the states if so desired.

I am not going to waist time looking up the regulation number.

You can look it up.

In Florida there are many traffic rules and laws (laws are different than traffic rules) that have reference to the certified weights posted by the manufacture that would make operating in the over weight condition an offence.

You have operating a vehicle with an improper load, operating a vehicle with unsafe equipment. Operating a dangerous tool / instrument in an unsafe mannor / condition and several more. By the way operating a dangerous tool / instrument in an unsafe manner / condition is a felony. The Florida Suprem court put motor vehecles in this category some time between WW I and WW II.


This is my opinion:

Weight your RV. If it is overweight do something about it that will stand in civil and criminal court. If it isn’t over weight keep the weight report showing all axels and vehicles within the published limits. Weigh it at least once a year or more often if you use it for extended periods of time. They gain weight when you put those small items on board that you think you need or would be handy to have.

I weight ours before every long trip where we are fully loaded (we carry heavy items on long trips that we don’t carry on local trips). It has gained weight in the three years we have been using it. The heaviest we have ever weighed was within 500 lbs of the GCW published for the towing vehicle and 1,000 lbs. below for the GWR of the trailer. We now have 38,000 miles on the trailer about 30,000 of that with the heavy load. Because of the weight we carry in the towing vehicle we can’t load the trailer to its GVW rating.

As some one else has mentioned continued practice of operating your personal use vehicle over weight will result in regulation of you favorite travel mode. The commercial trucking industry is all ready talking about the need for regulations concerning the RV’s.

3665RE

[FastEagle]

When reading government regulations and standards you will often see a statement that insures the end user that at the time of first sale ALL minimum standards have been met by the vehicle manufacturer and the vehicle is certified to those standards.

After the first sale, owners - such as some posting here - will set their own standards. Without safeguards and in some cases, vehicle inspections, those changes will go undetected. When they are in violation of minimum standards and regulations, safety becomes the issue. After all, that’s what all the regulations are about.

Here is what NHTSA has to say about it.

FOREWORD

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has a legislative mandate under Title 49 of the United States Code, Chapter 301, Motor Vehicle Safety, to issue Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS) and Regulations to which manufacturers of motor vehicle and equipment items must conform and certify compliance. FMVSS 209 was the first standard to become effective on March 1, 1967. A number of FMVSS became effective for vehicles manufactured on and after January 1, 1968. Subsequently, other FMVSS have been issued. New standards and amendments to existing standards are published in the Federal Register.

These Federal safety standards are regulations written in terms of minimum safety performance requirements for motor vehicles or items of motor vehicle equipment. These requirements are specified in such a manner "that the public is protected against unreasonable risk of crashes occurring as a result of the design, construction, or performance of motor vehicles and is also protected against unreasonable risk of death or injury in the event crashes do occur."

FastEagle

[wingnut60]

hooverbill,

"Also, I hesitate to take weight information seriously from a person who's about to pull a 17,500 pound 5th wheel with a SRW truck. Be happy to discuss numbers with you, but no way you'll be within GCWR limits."

Kind of wondering where you are with the GCWR statement? Do you know what the GCWR is on the 2012 3500 GMC SRW pickup? I don't happen to have that info handy, so what do you think it is? Seems to me it ought to be around 30000, leaving about 12500 for the truck, and I would think that the truck would be way under that.

Just wondering...

Joe

[3665RE]

Originally Posted by wingnut60

hooverbill,

"Also, I hesitate to take weight information seriously from a person who's about to pull a 17,500 pound 5th wheel with a SRW truck. Be happy to discuss numbers with you, but no way you'll be within GCWR limits."

Kind of wondering where you are with the GCWR statement? Do you know what the GCWR is on the 2012 3500 GMC SRW pickup? I don't happen to have that info handy, so what do you think it is? Seems to me it ought to be around 30000, leaving about 12500 for the truck, and I would think that the truck would be way under that.

Just wondering...

Joe

I got this from GM a few months ago and verified it againt yesterday 8/23/2012.

Gross Combination Weight Rating for the Silverado 3500 crew cab drw long bed 30,500 LBS.

3665RE

[JohnBoyToo]

jeeze gentlemen !

While safety should be paramount....
you sure seem that rv'ing is making you unhappy
and that Rv'ing is not too much fun

[wingnut60]

Just don't care for blanket statements with no data attached...
Joe