RV News RVBusiness 2021 Top 10 RVs of the Year, plus 56 additional debuts and must-see units → ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-29-2020, 06:38 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 38
Help me with the war between payload and towing capacity

Planning a 5th wheel purchase in the spring and wanted to get the truck by the end of the year. Looking at Ram 2500 Cummins diesel.

5Th wheels I'm looking at have an average hitch weight of 2000 lbs. and a GVWR of 12000 to 14000 lbs.

The dilemma I'm having is that the Cummins can handle the towing but is close on payload, most around 2100 lbs. If I go for the Hemi the payload is no problem but the towing capacity suffers at around 14000 lbs. I really hate to be close to the limits.

When putting vin numbers in the Ram site for capacities it gives one figure for towing and I believe there is a different limit for bumper hitch and 5th wheel. What would be my best configuration to look for? Trying to avoid expanding search to a 3500.
Joe442 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-29-2020, 07:00 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Skip426's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Powell River, B.C.
Posts: 21,201
To handle properly a 12,000/14,000 lb fiver will have approx 20% pin weight ; so 2,400/2,800.
Every pound added to the truck , passengers tools , hitch takes away from payload , AND not all payload is available at the rear axle , where the the hitch and pin add almost all the weight .
For a fiver in the weight range your looking at , payload should be 3,200+.
Have you looked at 3500 SRW ( Single Rear Wheel ) trucks . Assuming you don't like the DRW option.
The gas ( Hemi ) engine gives more total payload, BUT , not at the rear axle; the lighter engine frees up capacity on the front axle.

EDIT: From what I can remember Ford is the manufacturer that has different ratings for fiver and bumper pull RVs.
__________________
99DSDP 3884, Freightliner, XC, CAT 3126B, 300 HP /ALLISON 3060
2000 Caravan toad, Remco & Blue Ox.
Skip426 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2020, 07:15 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 752
Help me with the war between payload and towing capacity

I own a 35í Montana 5er, GVW 14,560 and tow with a 3500 Ram 3500 dually. Last time I crossed the scales my weights were 5,400 steering, 7,840 rear, 11,000 trailer axles. Thatís with full fuel, 80 gallons in a transfer tank and about 250 pounds in a toolbox. My pin weight is 2,900 pounds.

The specs for my truck are 5,500 GFAW, 9,350 GRAW and 12,000 on the trailer axles.

Imho, if you go with the heavier trailer, youíre going to want more truck.
__________________
2012 Dodge C3500 DRW 4x4 Long Box, WeatherGuard 90 Gal transfer tank, B&W Companion Hitch
2012 Keystone Montana 3100RL, 520W Solar, 460AH batteries, Morningstar MPPT 45 CC, Bogart 2030RV monitor.
drdarrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2020, 07:54 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
tuffr2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Palm Coast Florida
Posts: 8,814
You should not buy a 2500 diesel if you want a 5th wheel. You should buy a 3500 Single Rear Wheel (SRW).

A 3500 SRW will be designed to carry more weight with more weight carrying capacity with a bigger rear axle, bigger or more leaf springs and a few other items.

If the 2500 has a payload of 2,100lbs a 3500 SRW with have a payload of 3,600lbs.

I know Ford builds a SRW F-350 8' bed that has a cargo capacity of over 4,000lbs.

I think GM and Ram might have the same cargo capacity with an 8' bed.
tuffr2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2020, 08:06 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 13,897
What year RAM 2500?

14000 GVWR 5vr will have roughly 3080# WET pin weight

Check out what the RAWR is on that 2500.
Compare it to rear axle weight.....got enough margin to add the WET pin weight to rear axle w/o exceeding RAWR

I have a 3500 SRW but is a 2007 model year
Newer 2500s have same ratings as my old 3500
Tow a 14K 5vr with 3080# wet pin weight and it is a great match...no towing issues, no white-knuckle rides, no problems

Truck Rear Axle/tires 'carry' the pin weight of 5vr
Don't exceed those ratings and good to go...safely!!
__________________
Is it time for YOUR Medication or Mine?
Dodge 3500 w/Tractor Motor & NUWA 5vr
US NAVY---USS Decatur DDG-31
Old-Biscuit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2020, 10:03 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: LA, Lower Alabama
Posts: 1,745
My 2017 Ram 3500 has a capacity of 4207. It's the normal diesel, Laramie, 4wd, long bed, crew cab. My previous 2016 Ford F250 Lariat with the 6.7 diesel, short bed, crew cab, 4wd was a puny 2000 and change. The 1T SRW isn't significantly more than the 3/4T comparable trims. Additional options will run the price up quicker and higher faster than going up a weight range. Newer models of all the big 3 will have higher capacity ratings.

FWIW the duallys I'm looking at now have that capacity of around 56-5800#
__________________
2020 Keystone Raptor 356
2012 PT Crusader 355BHQ (GFs)
2020 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW CC 4WD Diesel
chunker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2020, 04:57 AM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit View Post
What year RAM 2500?
The 2500 will be at least 2019 either new or slightly used, by the time I get it. If 3500 is the way to go I may have to get an older one. Did not want to spend much over $50000 to $55000.
Joe442 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2020, 07:02 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe442 View Post
The 2500 will be at least 2019 either new or slightly used, by the time I get it. If 3500 is the way to go I may have to get an older one. Did not want to spend much over $50000 to $55000.
Do not buy a 2500 if you intend to buy a 5th wheel with a GVWR of 12k-14k lbs.... you will instantly regret it.

Been down this road and I would never do it again. One close call will have you puckered like you wouldn't believe. I towed a Coachmen TH home 4.5 hrs with a GVWR of 15k lbs with a 2012 Ram 2500. I was white knuckled all the way and immediately had the dealership come pick it up. The GM was surprised that the salesman would even tell me it would work and he drove from KY himself in a 3500 DRW and got it. After that I learned the importance of having enough truck.

12-14k is in the middle of 3500 territory. At that weight I wouldn't even consider a SRW 3500 because of stability (my personal preference), but if you are choosing between a 2500 and 3500 SRW, the 3500 SRW wins out.

The GVWR of my 5'er is 13.5k and I tow it with a 3500 DRW. You can feel every bit of that rig behind it.
__________________
2020 Chaparral 392MBL, Reese Goosebox
2016 Ram 3500 Laramie
Nlambert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2020, 08:36 AM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nlambert View Post
Do not buy a 2500 if you intend to buy a 5th wheel with a GVWR of 12k-14k lbs.... you will instantly regret it.

Been down this road and I would never do it again. One close call will have you puckered like you wouldn't believe. I towed a Coachmen TH home 4.5 hrs with a GVWR of 15k lbs with a 2012 Ram 2500. I was white knuckled all the way and immediately had the dealership come pick it up. The GM was surprised that the salesman would even tell me it would work and he drove from KY himself in a 3500 DRW and got it. After that I learned the importance of having enough truck.

12-14k is in the middle of 3500 territory. At that weight I wouldn't even consider a SRW 3500 because of stability (my personal preference), but if you are choosing between a 2500 and 3500 SRW, the 3500 SRW wins out.

The GVWR of my 5'er is 13.5k and I tow it with a 3500 DRW. You can feel every bit of that rig behind it.
My top 2 choices are both Jayco Eagles 360QBOK and 336FBOK. Both are around 13500 gross and 2100 hitch weight.

My ultimate retirement RV I hope to have is Grand Design Solitude 374th with a 20000 gross and 3200 hitch weight. I know Iíll need the 3500DRW for this. This is in 7 to 8 years.

I now have a 26ft 6000 Lb R-Vision trail lite towing with a 02 Silverado 1500. Want to get something bigger but not all the way to the GD yet.

So I will now expand my search for a 3500.
Joe442 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2020, 08:52 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
tuffr2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Palm Coast Florida
Posts: 8,814
I had a 16,000 GVWR 5th wheel and was looking for a truck. A Ram salesman guaranteed a 2012 Ram 2500 would tow my 5th wheel.

Very lucky for me I asked a trusted friend and he said heck no. That I needed a dually truck. I was glad I did buy a 2012 Dually.

My moto is now buy enough truck.
tuffr2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2020, 09:29 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 334
Every ones needs and what they think others need will vary.
As I always state/mention when this is brought up, is. Putting in my vin number on my 2015 dodge ram 2500 cummins 2door, 4+4 sais towing is 17,782.66lbs, payload was 2500 and that was also right on as I scaled it stock, now that heavy emissions parts fell off I gained 500 or more payload. My truck would tow the limit with out any problems and stop it. Door sticker sais front 6,000lbs, rear 6,600lbs.
What no one has mentioned yet, is, if going diesel, do research, join a cummins forum, and look into the problems that may, and or will happen some day, from all the emissions stuff on any diesel, now adays. IF, for any reason I needed to get rid of my currant truck, there is no, no, no, way I would buy a new diesel, with all the emissions stuff on it. $8,000-$9,000 more for the diesel buys a lot of gas.
I am not saying its right, but have a friend, with a huge Montana, and he has a 2015 2500 4 door long bed,, 4+4 dodge ram cummins, and he is 1,000 lbs over payload and does not have a problem. Yep, he is not legal, im not saying its right, but I am not the safety police.
Best of luck.
Traveler4321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2020, 09:41 AM   #12
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 884
You cannot believe the manufacturer trailer pin weight. PLan on 20-22% for realistic averages.

Also consider that the upper trim levels, in the RAM line at least, Will reduce payload by 400-600 for the 2500s. I found the 3500 RAM trims vary by 800-1200 pounds less than the Tradesman trims.

My 3500 Tradesman has cloth manual seats, Uconnect 8.5 radio, and and a HO diesel with Aisin transmission. Regular AC, cruise control, etc. I think it is nicely appointed. Some folks are surprised my truck is a Tradesman and not a Laramie.

So look across the different levels of trims. Look at a few door stickers for the real payloads, not at the optimistic sales brochures. And ordering a new truck asper your specs, it any more expensive as buying of the lot.

And as far as trucks and in-dash GPS units, I have yet to see any in dash unit route according to height, weight and length. My RV GPS does all that well for much less.

Look accross the trim levels, and weight ratings to obtain the tow vehicle you desire.
HDGoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2020, 09:43 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
jimcumminsw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Oswego IL
Posts: 1,896
All I can say is what DOT looks for on commercial haulers who use pick-up trucks. DOT looks at the RAW and tires weight rating, IE loading numbers. As long as these components are not overloaded than DOT will not ticket you at a weight scale! DOT does not care at all about payload and cargo capacity! The other item DOT will also check is the vehicle tags (licensee plate), to insure that it is registered for the loads that the truck is hauling.

That is all I am concerned with when I am towing, Rear AXLE WEIGTHS and TIRE CAPACITY, will the tires support the weight load!
__________________
Jim & Jill
Sold: 2010 318SAB Cougar:New: 2016 Cedar Creek 34RL. 2008 Dodge 6.7LCummins the original 6.7L engine, w/68RFE Auto
jimcumminsw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2020, 10:10 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 223
At least at the time and it may be different now I suppose but I was in the same position as you a few years ago. Wanted a 2500 diesel to replace my aging one with 375k on the odo. I knew I was over a bit here or there on my then current truck but even the new ones (2017) it was too close to the edge. I ended up buying a srw 3500. I built two identical trucks option wise only difference being the 2500 vs 3500. The 3500 was literally $300 more. I found that to be the case as well when I went out shopping apples to apples option wise there was very little difference in price. Gained about 1800lbs in cargo capacity. The 2500 was in the 2500lb range and my 3500 is 4360 per the sticker on the door frame.
__________________
2016 Jayco Eagle 27.5 RLTS
BarryG20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
tow, towing



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Towing Capacity and Payload Capacity mexmahon Powerstroke Engine Forum 4 09-22-2019 07:09 PM
Payload towing capacity truck vs trailer kksalmon Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion 25 10-06-2017 05:51 PM
GVWR / Payload capacity... am I missing something? Wilde Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion 9 06-22-2017 12:52 PM
Cargo/Payload capacity including a full tank of fuel MapleKing Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion 6 06-21-2016 02:40 PM
A Rebuild of a War Bird For All You Old War Birds. Possum Military / Veteran RVing 3 12-18-2012 10:26 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.