How many tow with a gas truck?

[Cowpie1]

Originally Posted by tfryman

I would think $1 per gallon difference in fuel price would weigh pretty heavily in the gasser's favor.

It can be better than that in some ways. I have a 2015 Chevy 2500 6.0L flex fuel gasser. Due to pricing, it has been on E85 fuel for the last two years. Filled the other day for $1.12 a gallon... no discount card, that was actual pump price. I average about 10 mpg on the stuff. Sounds terrible but it is not. Currently, that is 11 cents a mile using E85. Last 498 mile, the average was about 9.8 mpg, but that included a couple of bouts of snow plowing.

I have grown very fond of flex fuel type of gas engines. Can use E0, E10, E15, E20, E30, E50, and E85 as I see fit based on seasonal fuel prices to get the best value per mile. Not locked into premium or diesel as some pickups are.

Based on the 10 mpg / 11 cents a mile I am getting with my 3/4 ton pickup on E85, a diesel version would have to average almost 26 mpg for all miles just to break even on the cost per mile. I have never seen a 3/4 ton diesel pickup even come close to an overall average of 26 mpg. Maybe on a road trip, empty, with a tail wind, but not an overall average (city, highway, hauling, towing, etc).

[Calbar]

I am pulling 9400 lbs loaded with my Tundra gas. No issues. Enough power and no issues keeping the speed limit. Debated about trading it in on a F350 diesel but just couldn't bring myself to part with that huge amount of money to pull the trailer 3 - 5 times a year.

[WYO George]

RE: Cost differences

There's not enough to matter in most instances. The diesel has a ton more power and that is good if you're in a hurry. If you don't mind going a little slower then the gas gets the job done just fine unless you are at the extremes of weight/size.

For example. A good friend of mine has a truck identical to mine except color and engine. I've ridden with him enough to know that our driving habits are virtually identical as well. We both track fuel consumption so I did a little math. I've had my truck for 40,000 miles (three years) so I used that number for a basis. In that time the operating cost (gas,DEF, oil changes) combined added up to within $36 of the same. He gets a few miles per gallon better, but diesel costs more and then add in DEF and more expensive oil changes and he's only saved $36 over the course of 40,000 miles.

I love the torque of his truck and some days I think of trading my 5 year old gasser in on a new diesel, but I hate vehicle payments and couldn't pay cash for the new truck like I did my current truck so I'll just settle with going a little slower up the hills and stopping for gas a little more often.

Make no mistake though, when I hit the lotto I'm going straight from the bank to the dealership and driving home a new diesel dually In the meantime I'm just too cheap to spend the extra money unnecessarily.

[Reevesfamily]

Yes, the EPA could have much greater impact on clean air by requiring an EGR on cows. Most newer diesels don't blow coal and in the grand scheme of things related to the atmosphere vehicular diesel exhaust particulate matter is a very very tiny offender.

[tuffr2]

WYOgeorge - if I win the lottery I think I would buy a 350/3500 diesel truck from Ford, Chevy, Ram. Yes 3 diesel trucks. I would drive them like I stole them. Then when someone asked which one to buy I could tell them.

[WYO George]

Sounds like s good idea, maybe one hooked to a new toy hauler, one to a new boat and the other to my race car trailer.

A guy can dream, right?

[Rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Reevesfamily

Yes, the EPA could have much greater impact on clean air by requiring an EGR on cows. Most newer diesels don't blow coal and in the grand scheme of things related to the atmosphere vehicular diesel exhaust particulate matter is a very very tiny offender.

Our new to us 2016 Ram 3500 DRW CTD there is zero soot on the inside of the exhaust pipe.


In addition, in reading all the post so far with one exception all the gasers are towing 10,000# or less. I have always seen that as the breaking point, I currently tow a 12,500# 5er and just went from a 2001 Ram 2500 CTD to a 2016 Ram 3500 DRW both Laramie's.


Newer gas engines are no longer the simple engines they were in the past and also have many emission devices on them also.

[AbdRahim]

Pulled 25' Tracer with Ford Expedition.

[ScoobyDoo]

Originally Posted by Rhagfo

Newer gas engines are no longer the simple engines they were in the past and also have many emission devices on them also.

One of my friends had a '70 Nova. Because I really liked that car, when my wife wanted new, I bought a '73. He could go about twice as far on a dollars worth of gas as I could, because of the emissions devices of the day. That and the Nader bumpers, did not like the car as much as I thought I would. Did not keep it or wife very long
IMHO, the gas engines have had a 40 year head start. Early on they where trying to clean the exhaust after the fuel was burned. After a time, they started to clean the burn, which also improved performance and economy. I'm not sure, but think that diesels are still in the "clean the exhaust" stage...

[roadcamping]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

Anyone have an idea how much a deleted diesel engine pollutes? Especially with gran kids. Where does all the soot go? Does a deleted truck spew black soot out the tail pipe?

If you are concerned about the pollution, you should look into the NOx reduction provided by the after treatment system and DEF.

As far as soot goes, new diesels produce a much more compete burn than in the past and thus produces less soot than old engines. There will be more soot output on a deleted but, the particles will be larges. The current after treatment produces less soot however, the soot particles are so small that they are not filtered by lungs and goes into the blood stream.

I'll let scientists figure out which is worse, more NOx or smaller soot particles.

[SDCOToyhaul]

Towed with 2500 Ram gas truck. Only two disadvantages were one, getting the proper gearing if towing close to max weight and second, consider your length when fueling. In smaller towns or out of the way places, getting in and especially out away from fuel pumps with only gasoline may be a challenge. Have had to unhook a couple of times to fuel. ie, Alaska and even coming out of Takoma Washington had to actually stop and use spare fuel which I carried because of the small service stations along the lesser traveled routes.

[Cowpie1]

Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo

One of my friends had a '70 Nova. Because I really liked that car, when my wife wanted new, I bought a '73. He could go about twice as far on a dollars worth of gas as I could, because of the emissions devices of the day. That and the Nader bumpers, did not like the car as much as I thought I would. Did not keep it or wife very long
IMHO, the gas engines have had a 40 year head start. Early on they where trying to clean the exhaust after the fuel was burned. After a time, they started to clean the burn, which also improved performance and economy. I'm not sure, but think that diesels are still in the "clean the exhaust" stage...

And even then, the American OEM's are really behind the curve.

Amminex makes a great SCR system that does not use liquid DEF like we do. It uses propane tank like cartridges with 100% urea in a matrix. Canister can be sized to last for an oil change interval.

Instead of having to use a dosing injector like the DEF versions, the Amminex version moves a gas version of urea into the SCR without needing an injector to do the job. That eliminates injector problems and DEF filter issues. Also, the gaseous urea is available at cold engine startup, thereby eliminating the need for EGR on the motor, which would mean no EGR cooler as well. And in total, it reduces NOx below current levels provided by DEF fed SCR systems.

Less complexity and fewer DPF regens due to lower soot without EGR messing things up. That leads to longer DPF life cycle.

Amminex - New world standard for NOx reduction

The emissions stuff on diesels is not a bad idea, but the current methodology is criminal. Amminex removes ALL emissions from the engine and keeps it all downstream of the motor. A far better solution which allows the engine to be tuned to maximum efficiency and performance.

[DryCreek]

Well, it's good to see a balanced discussion here.
lots of rational input, with experience on both sides of the aisle.

If you want to see how quickly Diesel vs. Gas can spiral into a mess, come on over to the Class A forums....

But I digress. I have experience towing/hauling with both. While we had smaller RV's, the gas engines did very well for us. Once we were able to move back home to Texas and restarted our ranch, we really needed diesel to haul the equipment and hay. That's not to say we didn't use gas powered HD pickups though. For years we used our '94 Chevy 3500 Crewcab dually. It was equipped with a 454, NV4500 and 4.10:1 differential. It did really well for us. Not the most efficient TV, but more than adequate up to about 13K lbs. My wife was running a '94 Ford F-350 with 351, 5 spd and 4.11:1 differential. It was a crewcab, but SRW. It was OK up to about 10K lbs. It was also not very fuel efficient. As we started hauling larger loads of hay, and our tractor got larger, and we started showing our cattle (hauling over longer distances) we decided to move up to diesel power. We replaced my wife's F-350 with a brand-new Dodge 2500 QuadCab, LB, HO/NV5600 in 2003. That thing was, and still is a beast when towing. It was the first year CTD with the CRI. We were impressed. I later sold the Chevy and bought a 2001 Dodge 2500 with the (VP44) HO/NV5600. It was a great truck, and I miss it sometimes. I just sold it three years ago. We had stopped showing cattle, and decided to sell our fifth wheel and move up to a short Class A.
Would we have liked a diesel pusher? You bet! But, cash on hand limited our selection, and we ended up with a 2006 Winnebago Sightseer 29R (30'). I wanted the Workhorse chassis with the 8.1/Allison, but we ended up with the Ford F-53 V-10/5 spd auto. You know what? It has all the power we need, but it is tucked away in the upper end of the RPM band. After two years we have started to get used to seeing 4,200 RPM on extended grades (above 5%). It has never left us at the back of the pack on those climbing lanes heading up the mountains. But, it is very, very fond of gas. The best we've ever seen is a touch over 7 mpg. We normally see about 6.5, towing our Jeep Wrangler and strolling along at 62-65 mph (about 2500 RPM).

So, what I'm trying to say is this: a gas engine is quite capable of hauling an RV. If it wasn't, you wouldn't see all of those gas-powered Class A and Class C motor homes out there.

BTW, our '03 Dodge 2500 has just a tick over 87K miles on it now (only comes out for hay season). I plan on it lasting forever at this rate!

ETA - here in Texas, diesel typically runs at an 80 cent to $1 premium over 87 Unleaded.

[EdnKat]

Originally Posted by Stableduck

I am thinking about a new truck before I retire. I am leaning towards a gas powered 1 ton sb.
We will not be full time but are thinking we would like to do a few trips a year.
I know a diesel is better for towing but when we are not traveling the truck will be my daily driver. Thinking about maintenance cost of the diesel, more oil, fuel filter, DEF, and I know today’s diesels have been holding up good but omg if something does go wrong with the engine.
I would like to hear from those who are towing with gas trucks and what your experience has been

Diesel cost more, all the way around, initially, service wise, fuel wise, gas with the 'appropriate tow package' will do just fine. Towed with both. At the end of the day,..... got to where we wanted to be. .30 to .40 per gallon less for gas.