If you are thinking of buying a gas or diesel truck you have 13 years and 11 mths left.

[NevadaNick]

Electric heat pump technology has gotten better but is not ready for temps well below 0.

[NevadaNick]

I have bought gas off the grid.

[Our05Winneba]

Lots of very energetic posts in this thread. Some of my observations -

* In terms of alternate energy sources we need to let the free market work and come up with new innovations and propose realistic, affordable and efficient solutions. One such is one which no one seems to talk about - Nuclear energy. Clean, safe, non-polluting, very efficient, and well proven in Europe for decades. Provides most all the benefits of we need for greater use of electricity.

* Before we ever see EV RVs we need to see EV technology realistically implemented in long range semi trucks. That market is MUCH larger than the RV market. If it can be made to work in those units then RV applications should be possible. But until then . . .

* Even if larger EV RVs developed - many issues. For example - charging stations. They certainly cannot use any current charging stations I have seen because they simply take up too much space. One large MH - or 5th wheel - will block off all other charging stations when they pull up.

* Charging at campsites. There are virtually no RV parks wired to begin to supply the huge quantities of electricity to charge up even current EVs. Many parks I have been at are challenged just to provide enough to keep everyone's A/C running on hot days.

* Solar - I love solar, but it's huge problems for RVs are - nighttime, cloudy days, shade trees and mountains. I have lots of solar on my RV roof, along with a large Lithium battery system. When charged up in full sunlight I have maybe 2 days before my batteries are depleted enough to require running the gen - A nice gasoline powered Onan unit. Prefer not to use it but especially this past summer we ended up parking in the shadow of many trees or even tall mountains. (Ever camped in Yosemite Valley? No solar there). Thank god I had the gen to keep things running.

* Hydro electric - Lots of comments here about this, and we saw a number of very large hydro dams this past summer throughout the Pacific NW. Works great, though was shocked to learn that much of their great output is not taken very far. And of course - hydro not well suited for much of the rest of the country.

* Stop referring to CO2 as "pollution". It is not. It is an absolutely essential gas required for life on earth to exist. In fact the greatest period of evolution of life in earths history was when it was much warmer than now, as well as having much higher CO2 levels (>4,000 ppm). And life exploded then! Don't forget that many greenhouses release CO2 into them in order to promote faster plant growth. Why do you think they do that?

* Wind Power - Have driven by many wind farms throughout the West, and in almost all of them at least 50% of the blades not even turning. Or units facing wrong direction and even missing blades. Have read elsewhere that there would never have been a single windmill manufactured without a government subsidy - so what does that tell you about how practical and efficient they are?

* I am all for creation and use of renewal energy sources, but we cannot continue to "cut off our nose to spite our faces" on this issue. The government has been pushing a giant boulder up hill to promote this without any consideration of energy efficiency, affordable or practical realities. They have pushed wind & solar solutions for decades to the point that many realize that they will never be the solution. Maybe as supplemental power sources in a few areas around the country - but that is all.

As always - let the free market do its job in innovation and application of new technologies - as they have proven in the past. Everyone knows that there are huge opportunities for companies to do this - let them do it!

* Meanwhile - we cannot cut off the use of energy supplies which have proven to work so well over the last 100 years. The amount of vastly improved efficiencies and reduced pollution from burning fossil fuels has been incredible. No reason to ignore that progress while better alternatives are being developed.

[Parkcityite]

I prefer not to be taxed by the mile. Trackers would have be installed and that means we leave a trail everywhere we go. Electric charging station taxes would take care of high mileage users as the rest can top off at home for typical mileage. Base road fees could be built into annual registration fees.

[RM Art]

Originally Posted by Our05Winneba

Lots of very energetic posts in this thread. Some of my observations -

As always - let the free market do its job in innovation and application of new technologies - as they have proven in the past. Everyone knows that there are huge opportunities for companies to do this - let them do it!

* Meanwhile - we cannot cut off the use of energy supplies which have proven to work so well over the last 100 years. The amount of vastly improved efficiencies and reduced pollution from burning fossil fuels has been incredible. No reason to ignore that progress while better alternatives are being developed.

Rick

See your bets and raise you one. Well written post. I reduced your post's size just so your and my long ones don't make readers wince - too much, lol! On your portion regarding Nuke Power - I agree! And, I have invented a way to "closed-loop" cool them while the cooling process creates outside from reactor, clean-green additional electricity generation.

Here's a little input from me:

For over 20 years, internal and external associates and I have been diligently working toward manifestations of socially acceptable procedures to abate anthropogenic caused climate/environment/ecosystem changes.

My corporation sponsored [produced and funded] a meeting of high ranking scientists, physicists, professors, engineers and inventors at Sandia National Laboratories, Lawrence Livermore, CA. Two persons and I co-chaired the meeting. Among other items; lengthy discussion was on the global need and ways to "DrawDown" carbon dioxide [CO2] out of atmosphere. Then turn that CO2 into Full-Cycle, Carbon Neutral gasoline, diesel and jet fuels. These new source fuels will be fungible, drop-in ready to mix with refined crude oil fossil fuels. Resounding progress is being made. Keep your eyes and ears wide open!

On the one hand: Overload of carbon dioxide in atmosphere is the greatest contributor to ongoing, increasing global warming. On the other hand: Overload of carbon dioxide [as a gas] existing in atmosphere is the largest "liquid energy" equivalent on Earth; it dwarfs other availabilities and/or the combined volumes thereof. Prodigiously extracted from ambient air, utilized correctly and stored successfully... the act of Full-Cycling atmospheric CO2 will create economic improvements and environmental betterment boons, extending well into the 22nd Century.

There will become available [during the next 10 to 20 years] atmospheric CO2 borne Full-Cycle, Carbon Neutral liquid hydrocarbon fuels; multitudes environmentally more cooperative than and on par cost with refined crude oil fuels. This new method of liquid hydrocarbon energy production will reach dominance by fulfilling global ecosystem needs. During decades long energy source metamorphous events our new liquid fuels and fossil fuels will become joined at the hip, while these sources cooperatively navigate channels leading to a sustainable future for humanity.

One eminently important "mechanical" societal-need, while stopping climate warming/change so that world environments do not experience calamities that "crash and burn" during the last half of 21st Century, is to keep international economies strong. To do so... the over two billion internal combustion engines [ICE] in operation must be kept running strong. To accomplish that, without great impinge upon the required restorations of worsening eco-systemic conditions, the burning of Non-Cycle Carbon Positive fossil fuels must be curtailed to a large extent.

I suggest punching up - POPA Report 2011: https://www.aps.org/policy/reports/a...ad/dac2011.pdf

Especially read the fourth [4th] paragraph, page nine [9]; to get a reasonable inkling of this necessary global project's enormity.

Best,

Art

[sirtate]

Originally Posted by RM Art

Rick



See your bets and raise you one. Well written post. I reduced your post's size just so your and my long ones don't make readers wince - too much, lol! On your portion regarding Nuke Power - I agree! And, I have invented a way to "closed-loop" cool them while the cooling process creates outside from reactor, clean-green additional electricity generation.



Here's a little input from me:



For over 20 years, internal and external associates and I have been diligently working toward manifestations of socially acceptable procedures to abate anthropogenic caused climate/environment/ecosystem changes.



My corporation sponsored [produced and funded] a meeting of high ranking scientists, physicists, professors, engineers and inventors at Sandia National Laboratories, Lawrence Livermore, CA. Two persons and I co-chaired the meeting. Among other items; lengthy discussion was on the global need and ways to "DrawDown" carbon dioxide [CO2] out of atmosphere. Then turn that CO2 into Full-Cycle, Carbon Neutral gasoline, diesel and jet fuels. These new source fuels will be fungible, drop-in ready to mix with refined crude oil fossil fuels. Resounding progress is being made. Keep your eyes and ears wide open!



On the one hand: Overload of carbon dioxide in atmosphere is the greatest contributor to ongoing, increasing global warming. On the other hand: Overload of carbon dioxide [as a gas] existing in atmosphere is the largest "liquid energy" equivalent on Earth; it dwarfs other availabilities and/or the combined volumes thereof. Prodigiously extracted from ambient air, utilized correctly and stored successfully... the act of Full-Cycling atmospheric CO2 will create economic improvements and environmental betterment boons, extending well into the 22nd Century.



There will become available [during the next 10 to 20 years] atmospheric CO2 borne Full-Cycle, Carbon Neutral liquid hydrocarbon fuels; multitudes environmentally more cooperative than and on par cost with refined crude oil fuels. This new method of liquid hydrocarbon energy production will reach dominance by fulfilling global ecosystem needs. During decades long energy source metamorphous events our new liquid fuels and fossil fuels will become joined at the hip, while these sources cooperatively navigate channels leading to a sustainable future for humanity.



One eminently important "mechanical" societal-need, while stopping climate warming/change so that world environments do not experience calamities that "crash and burn" during the last half of 21st Century, is to keep international economies strong. To do so... the over two billion internal combustion engines [ICE] in operation must be kept running strong. To accomplish that, without great impinge upon the required restorations of worsening eco-systemic conditions, the burning of Non-Cycle Carbon Positive fossil fuels must be curtailed to a large extent.



I suggest punching up - POPA Report 2011: https://www.aps.org/policy/reports/a...ad/dac2011.pdf



Especially read the fourth [4th] paragraph, page nine [9]; to get a reasonable inkling of this necessary global project's enormity.



Best,



Art

All good points...
CO2 is not, at itself, a pollutant.
Fossilized CO2 is the issue.
And then there are other man-made gasses that are stronger greenhouse gasses than CO2... (Looking at you CFCs)

I am aware of technology that sequesters carbon and makes hydrocarbons out of it.
Since this carbon hasn't been locked away for millions of years, it won't increase CO2 levels in the atmosphere today... (My biggest beef with carbon taxes on wineries and breweries. That CO2 is last summer's CO2, not dinosaur CO2)

Nuclear is, in my opinion, the best way to generate big, consistent, clean power for the new electrical grid...
Unenriched uranium/heavy water reactors, while not as efficient as plutonium/graphite reactors, are very safe. They can't meltdown or catch fire like 3MI or Chernobyl, and their waste isn't scary-radioactive...

I figure about 85% of automotive use can be covered by BEVs...
The rest, like aviation, requires too much energy to be carried along with the vehicle, and will need liquid hydrocarbon fuel (however produced) to work...
Yes, there are electric aircraft, but batteries weigh too much. 1200# of kerosene/diesel fuel will take a 12000# aircraft 1000miles... That'll take 1000kWh of energy... Those batteries take up more space, and more weight...

Batteries will get better, but they won't replace it all...

Just like there are some applications where horses haven't been replaced... (Long trail rides)

[Daveinet]

But the huge problem is that large vehicles required to transport goods an people around the world are big and heavy. Building a viable electric car was not that difficult, but the wakeup call is trying to pull a trailer with one. Your range drops to about 1/3rd or less, making it nearly impractical to transport anything any kind of distance. It works fine for construction transportation, where you batteries can be replenished, and you rarely travel any distance. But try traveling cross country towing a trailer with an electric vehicle and you can forget about it. Even the smallest of RVs will not be able to lay down any real miles without needing to be recharged. You need 4 to 5 times the capacity, both as storage, as well as the ability to recharge. You can kiss your RV goodby.

[NeilV]

Originally Posted by Shmelton

My question is where is the power going to come from to charge all of these electric vehicles. LA’s mayor was begging citizens to turn off the AC in a heat wave this summer so there wouldn’t be black outs. If this happens there is no way the govt or utilities
will keep up with demand. There will be blackouts daily.

I worked for GE in 2010-2012 and they lost millions upon millions gambling that 30% of the cars on the rd would be EV by 2016. They failed miserably...EV’s won’t save the planet. Oh and have fun replacing 15-20k in batteries every 5-6 yrs. Me I’ll keep driving a diesel until my time is up.

The reason for that is mostly political and therefore off topic here. So in a nutshell without going into the forbidden - Misinformation by the fossil fuel interests really played a big part in holding things back along with the repetitive repeating of that misinformation as if it were actually fact. GM itself played a huge role in spreading misinformation about electric cars and holding back their acceptance so its rather ironic that they are now making a push at promoting them on an accelerated schedule.

On replacing the batteries Nissan for example is taking the lead in taking your old battery in trade for refurbishment/recycling at the dealership and offering replacements at a reduced cost even making upgraded batteries available to owners of the older vehicles with the lower capacity batteries. My EV is now 6 years old and still does not need a new battery.

Yes there are some horror stories out there by people who intentionally tried to kill their batteries by beating on them trying to make them die early so they could get a free battery upgraded to the latest technology calling it the battery lottery. Some got them to die before the warranty ran out while those that failed to kill the batteries fast enough cried buckets of tears when they lost at playing that game. Intentionally running the batteries to near dead flat and then fast charging them repetitively during the heat of the day and pushing them full pedal to the floor in insanity mode all the time does wear them out faster however doing the same with a gasoline or diesel powered vehicle driving as if you stole it as the expression goes also causes the entire more complicated drive line on a vehicle with an internal combustion engine to wear our much faster too.

The EV charged at night when electrical demand is low fits the needs of over 80% of the drivers in the USA. The truth is that over 80% of the US driving population drives less than 20 miles round trip each day making even a 120 mile EV a perfect fit as a daily driver especially considering the low maintenance costs and high efficiency even factoring in changing the battery every 80,000 to 100,000 miles. As other car companies start following Nissan's lead in battery trade-in, recycling, refurbishments and upgrades at ever lower costs the EV only continues to become more attractive.

The less than 20% who don't fit the norm that the majority of American drivers do fit into are the ones making most of the waves against the EV. Another instance where a highly vocal minority is negatively impacting the majority.

Myself I am enjoying only having to replace wiper blades, check brake fluid, change the cabin air filter and rotate the tires as my only real annual maintenance. The way things look now I will be retired before the battery in my EV actually requires changing in several more years. One can only imaging how much better the battery technology will have become by the time that happens.

[saddlesore]

Hmmmmm....
I'm see'n a major Business opportunity in the making..
Take a [name your brand] F-450/550/4500/5500 long wheelbase diesel/natural gas/hydrogen [or electric]truck.
Mount a massive diesel/natural gas/hydrogen fired generator and large fuel tank with the needed electrical connections for emergency battery [bulk charge rate] re-charge road service.
Make it a franchise corporation, so it can be nation wide...
thoughts?

[NevadaNick]

I was thinking the same, instead of towing just pull up and recharge them.

[saddlesore]

Originally Posted by NevadaNick

I was thinking the same, instead of towing just pull up and recharge them.

Yup.. I can see the electrics out of charge during winter storms where they are stranded and have to sit in the middle of the interstates.. or just miss judged how much battery charge they needed from point A to B...
Can you imagine an 18 wheeler on the side of the road [ or in a truckstop] waiting out road closures due to weather and out of juice??

I saw one Tesla waiting in line for the charge station run out of juice.. had to push it into place..

[AnotherMike]

Originally Posted by saddlesore

I saw one Tesla waiting in line for the charge station run out of juice.. had to push it into place..

Somewhat like this?

[AnotherMike]

Originally Posted by Parkcityite

I prefer not to be taxed by the mile. Trackers would have be installed and that means we leave a trail everywhere we go. Electric charging station taxes would take care of high mileage users as the rest can top off at home for typical mileage. Base road fees could be built into annual registration fees.

This is mentioned in post #15

Mike

[radar]

Originally Posted by saddlesore

Hmmmmm....
I'm see'n a major Business opportunity in the making..
Take a [name your brand] F-450/550/4500/5500 long wheelbase diesel/natural gas/hydrogen [or electric]truck.
Mount a massive diesel/natural gas/hydrogen fired generator and large fuel tank with the needed electrical connections for emergency battery [bulk charge rate] re-charge road service.
Make it a franchise corporation, so it can be nation wide...
thoughts?

It’s already being done. Except it’s just a standard triple A type tow truck with a small modular power supply with standard CCS/CHADEMO or J1772 connectors so they can give a 5 to 10 KWh charge to the stranded EV. More common in Europe, Britain and China as the EV penetration is higher there. But I know there are some on the west coast North America now as well.

The newer EV’s are kinda hard to run empty if you use the software tools the car has. The trick with the Tesla is to tell the car your destination. Then it figures out the distance, the topography the temperature etc and calculates what you’ll have for charge when arrive. If you are not going to make it it will reroute you to a supercharger and precondition the battery just before you arrive so the supercharge is super fast. Works really well and it’s pretty accurate. If you just do it by mileage and EPA range left you might find yourself stranded. .

We drive the Tesla like we drove the grand Cherokee. Always on the top 2/3 of the tank. That way there is never any drama. .