Is buying a new dually diesel for 80k becoming a doomed investment

[Kid Gloves]

Let me try this. Mechanics only see vehicles when they need maintenance or repairs.

Of course it could be true that a car in need of repairs may not be brought to a mechanic when it needs repairs, which would demonstrate that there are possible exceptions to the sentence above, since a car that is currently in need of maintenance or repairs may not be seen by a mechanic.

That said, it seems reasonable to say that a person of sound mind, wouldn’t take a recently serviced vehicle to a mechanic and say, “Hi Jim, I just had a complete service done 2 days ago and I’d like to pay you do another complete service.”

Or, we could be talking about 2 different things.

[kdauto]

Originally Posted by Ldubs

We must be talking about two different things. If a mechanic will only see vehicles that need maintenance, and if all vehicles need maintenance, then it follows they will see a pretty good cross section. Of course, a lot of that maintenance will be routine oil/filter type stuff. But still, I would think a mechanic would have a pretty fair handle on common issues.

In general, I'm pretty skeptical about what I read on the internet and look for confirmation, just for the reasons you give.

Yup, and this is why I try to bow out of these discussions/arguments more than before. I get myself in trouble too often.

If I have 20 customers owning a 2015 Hupmobile and 10 of the 20 developed failure "x" at the 50 000 mile mark, I believe I can safely state that a 2015 Hupmobile has a high failure rate for "x".

FWIW many,many consumer believe there car doesn't require much more than an occasional oil change. I'd guess that less than 5% of people ever read more than a few pages of their owner's manual, if at all.

[Kid Gloves]

Originally Posted by kdauto

Yup, and this is why I try to bow out of these discussions/arguments more than before. I get myself in trouble too often.

If I have 20 customers owning a 2015 Hupmobile and 10 of the 20 developed failure "x" at the 50 000 mile mark, I believe I can safely state that a 2015 Hupmobile has a high failure rate for "x".

FWIW many,many consumer believe there car doesn't require much more than an occasional oil change. I'd guess that less than 5% of people ever read more than a few pages of their owner's manual, if at all.

Ooh ooh, I’ll bite. I’ve read the manual thoroughly and refer to it frequently.

Other than an annual oil and filter change, which I do even if the ICE has only been used for 1500 miles of travel, there’s a recommendation to change the dust and pollen filter, which is a 3 minute job and maybe rotate the tires every 7500 miles. The last time I took it to a dealer, they advised not to rotate the tires, based on the wear patterns. Everything else is a simple visual inspection. There is no other scheduled maintenance for 3 years or 36,000-47,500 miles.

So yeah, about the only maintenance I have to deal with for at least the first 3 years, that a BEV owner doesn’t, is an oil change. BEV’s have tires, suspension components, disc brakes and hydraulic fluid just like an ICE vehicle. I chuckle when BEV owners say their only maintenance is adding windshield washer fluid.

[kdauto]

Originally Posted by Kid Gloves

Ooh ooh, I’ll bite. I’ve read the manual thoroughly and refer to it frequently.

Other than an annual oil and filter change, which I do even if the ICE has only been used for 1500 miles of travel, there’s a recommendation to change the dust and pollen filter, which is a 3 minute job and maybe rotate the tires every 7500 miles. The last time I took it to a dealer, they advised not to rotate the tires, based on the wear patterns. Everything else is a simple visual inspection. There is no other scheduled maintenance for 3 years or 36,000-47,500 miles.

So yeah, about the only maintenance I have to deal with for at least the first 3 years, that a BEV owner doesn’t, is an oil change. BEV’s have tires, suspension components, disc brakes and hydraulic fluid just like an ICE vehicle. I chuckle when BEV owners say their only maintenance is adding windshield washer fluid.

Just for my personal curiosity, what year make and model are you talking about?

[Kid Gloves]

Originally Posted by kdauto

Just for my personal curiosity, what year make and model are you talking about?

It’s a 2019 Honda Clarity.

[Ldubs]

Originally Posted by kdauto

Yup, and this is why I try to bow out of these discussions/arguments more than before. I get myself in trouble too often.

If I have 20 customers owning a 2015 Hupmobile and 10 of the 20 developed failure "x" at the 50 000 mile mark, I believe I can safely state that a 2015 Hupmobile has a high failure rate for "x".

FWIW many,many consumer believe there car doesn't require much more than an occasional oil change. I'd guess that less than 5% of people ever read more than a few pages of their owner's manual, if at all.

Well my friend, info based on real experience of someone with expertise sounds pretty good to me -- whether I like the answer or not. LOL.

[Kid Gloves]

Originally Posted by Ldubs

Well my friend, info based on real experience of someone with expertise sounds pretty good to me -- whether I like the answer or not. LOL.

So much for being skeptical about what you read on the internet.

[LERD]

Originally Posted by Kid Gloves

It’s a 2019 Honda Clarity.

You know, I never considered myself ignorant about some cars. But I've never even heard of a Honda Clarity. And we've owned new Hondas since 2008. An 08 Odyssey and a '21 Passport. Plus I wished our Passport would have come with a manual. It's all online now. How can you look it up when you don't even know what to call it. That radio system still does stuff I don't know.
After a year now it is getting better but it still drives me crazy. It also doesn't help me that it's my wife's vehicle, not my daily driver.

[2cyber71]

Originally Posted by Kid Gloves

Ooh ooh, I’ll bite. I’ve read the manual thoroughly and refer to it frequently.

Other than an annual oil and filter change, which I do even if the ICE has only been used for 1500 miles of travel, there’s a recommendation to change the dust and pollen filter, which is a 3 minute job and maybe rotate the tires every 7500 miles. The last time I took it to a dealer, they advised not to rotate the tires, based on the wear patterns. Everything else is a simple visual inspection. There is no other scheduled maintenance for 3 years or 36,000-47,500 miles.

So yeah, about the only maintenance I have to deal with for at least the first 3 years, that a BEV owner doesn’t, is an oil change. BEV’s have tires, suspension components, disc brakes and hydraulic fluid just like an ICE vehicle. I chuckle when BEV owners say their only maintenance is adding windshield washer fluid.

My 2017 Ford Fusion Energi is the same.

[2cyber71]

Originally Posted by dbircky

Not saying past performance is an indicator of future performance…

Bought my 1996 F350 7.3 auto CCLWB new for 28k. As is sits in the driveway today with just under 390,000 miles it’s worth more than 50% of what I paid for it 26 years ago. I’ll check back in a another quarter century to see what an electric car bought today holds that kind of value.

Car and Driver Sep 2020. Electric cars coming off lease drop 52% in value in 3 years. iSeeCars did the evaluation. Tesla 3 has the best retention with only losing 10% value. (Possibly due to limited availability of new ones) Model s lost 36.3%. Still better than 5 year old Nissan Leafs losing nearly 90% in value!

It’s highly doubtful a diesel pickup will have little value in 5 years even if there is an equivalent (very doubtful) electric one ton pickup.

I agree, so add the New 44 ft Luxe to it and you can pull your house.

[Kid Gloves]

Originally Posted by LERD

You know, I never considered myself ignorant about some cars. But I've never even heard of a Honda Clarity. And we've owned new Hondas since 2008. An 08 Odyssey and a '21 Passport. Plus I wished our Passport would have come with a manual. It's all online now. How can you look it up when you don't even know what to call it. That radio system still does stuff I don't know.
After a year now it is getting better but it still drives me crazy. It also doesn't help me that it's my wife's vehicle, not my daily driver.

It was easy to miss. Originally designed as a Fuel Cell which was only available in CA, there was a lease only BEV version with 89 miles of range and the PHEV version which was a challenge to find outside of CA, was available for sale or lease from 2018-2021. The FC and BEV were laid to rest prior to the discontinuation of the PHEV. The most similar vehicle was the Chevy Volt, which was discontinued in 2019.

The car came with a manual, however, the online version, which I have downloaded, is more comprehensive.

[kdauto]

We're totally off-subject yet again.

Diesel and gas pickups will still be here for some time. My best guess is they'll remain for a solid 15 years still. I imagine they'll phase out more quickly in the 1/2 ton category than anything else.

If one needs a truck to haul 12 to 20k lbs of trailer then by all means get the gas or diesel pickup or medium duty for the task. You might wait a long time for an EV to replace that suitably.

Honda Clarity, that's like, a unicorn vehicle. AFAIK they are discontinued now, definitely in the hydrogen fuel cell model for sure for the reasons I posted earlier. I believe you'll see more EV only and less hybrids, as well as more and more SUV and pseudo-SUV vehicles and fewer carlike vehicles. That's not winding back anytime soon.

I would NOT recommend any hybrid pickups currently on the market such as the RAM with the BAS belt driven EV motor. They are a huge hassle, expensive and break often for minimal benefit.

[move on]

I don't think the hybrid options on the Ram or F-150 are very expensive. They will actually pay for themselves in fuel savings over the life of the vehicle. I share your concerns about the belt driven generator on the Ram but it should be reliable if properly designed. The F-150 solution with the electric motor built into the transmission casing seems more elegant. This is how all the larger and high end hybrids are going. I think all ICE vehicles will be so equipped one day because it makes financial sense.

The cool thing about the F-150 is that when you get the hybrid option you also get a free generator in the process.

[Kid Gloves]

Originally Posted by kdauto

We're totally off-subject yet again.

Diesel and gas pickups will still be here for some time. My best guess is they'll remain for a solid 15 years still. I imagine they'll phase out more quickly in the 1/2 ton category than anything else.

If one needs a truck to haul 12 to 20k lbs of trailer then by all means get the gas or diesel pickup or medium duty for the task. You might wait a long time for an EV to replace that suitably.

Honda Clarity, that's like, a unicorn vehicle. AFAIK they are discontinued now, definitely in the hydrogen fuel cell model for sure for the reasons I posted earlier. I believe you'll see more EV only and less hybrids, as well as more and more SUV and pseudo-SUV vehicles and fewer carlike vehicles. That's not winding back anytime soon.

I would NOT recommend any hybrid pickups currently on the market such as the RAM with the BAS belt driven EV motor. They are a huge hassle, expensive and break often for minimal benefit.

Yes, the Clarity has been discontinued. There was speculation among owners as to whether or not it would be produced in 2020. Production continued through 2021. It was doomed from day one. There was no advertising. It was widely believed to be a compliance car that was a money loser for Honda. It is a sedan. Sedans don’t sell well. Ford recently discontinued a line of sedans. Throw in a chip shortage and the available chips will get used in profitable vehicles. None of that detracts from the value, practicality and versatility of the car.

Toyota introduced the RAV4 Prime, a PHEV that is selling like hotcakes. Jeep introduced a Wrangler PHEV last year and will begin selling a Grand Cherokee PHEV next year. The technology continues to be introduced and now it’s available in the top selling models. This does not indicate a move away from the technology.