Is It Safe to Exceed The GVWR

[Kid Gloves]

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

I don't.
Just providing answer to some questions
*SAE J2807 is a marketing tool so ALL MFGs have a base line to use in the never ending 'Mine's Better then Yours"

Axe/tire ratings...don't exceed those and good to go

Simple...........

How are axle/tire ratings determined? SAE standards, or just marketing tools?

[Nlambert]

Originally Posted by TandW

While waiting for the wife and her CV19 test the other day, I was reviewing the specs listed in my Avalanche owners manual. The GVWR is different just for the differing axle ratios it may have. Just thought I'd interject again.

Makes sense.... gear ratio could cause the transmission not to shift properly. That could lead to a failure. A lower GVWR might mean that you can choose a taller highway gear than one with a higher GVWR.

Slipping, overheating, servo failures, etc...

[BruceDeville]

[QUOTE

When a manufacturer says his truck can tow 12,000 lbs, he's talking to a farmer of contractor who's towing a load around town. That doesn't mean he can go on the interstate with it. If you go 70 or 80 mph you shouldn't be towing that much load.[/QUOTE]

QUESTION:
Would you please point out which vehicle manufacturers published data is restricted to towing a load "around town". Where would a person look for actual payload data of vehicle prior to purhase if the GVWR, GAWR etc are all invalid except under very restricted conditions?

Just wondering.

[2upServant]

77travco I have had premature failure of transmission, rear end issues, rotor warping from excessive heat during braking. all on my one ton dually. If I can overload a one ton dually and cause problems it should be really easy to understand how simple it is to overload a 1/2 ton pickup. mine were stupid learn the hard way mistakes because I did not belong to a forum that had experienced knowledgeable people to offer up experience to help me see my decisions in judgement had flaws. I had an f-150 tried to beef it up to pull a high pressure portable wash unit. that unit full of water weighed in at probably 10-11,000 pounds. it did not take me very long to figure out I needed a bigger truck. Even still the one ton I ended up pulling it with was totaled due to inability to stop it, the brakes failed jackknifed the truck and I rear-ended a pickup in front of me. I ended up hitting him so hard that his tailgate ended up against his back window. I have made way to many stupid decisions and learned many lessons from it. now I make certain my truck will pull and stop anything I could imagine putting behind it. I refuse to take any chances where the tow vehicle may not be big enough to handle what I am pulling. Through my decisions I have been way to close to hurting myself or someone else because I "thought" my truck was big enough.

[move on]

Originally Posted by Kid Gloves

How are axle/tire ratings determined? SAE standards, or just marketing tools?

I think SAE J2807 is more of an engineering tool. Marketing was wrapped up in bragging about how much more they could tow/haul than their competitors. It must have driven the engineers crazy. In any event, I think it's a good thing that they came up with some standards that everyone finally agreed to. Still, J2807 is only a first attempt to level the playing field. I hope to see it expanded to define more limits for safe operation. How often do we see an undersized tow vehicle wallowing dangerously down the interstate with an oversized load? It's ridiculous. How come an 80,000 lb semi can safely do 80 mph while many 20,000 lb RV rigs struggle with 60 mph? We need more guidance from the manufacturers and their engineers as to what can be safely towed.

[77Travco]

Originally Posted by 2upServant

77travco I have had premature failure of transmission, rear end issues, rotor warping from excessive heat during braking. all on my one ton dually. If I can overload a one ton dually and cause problems it should be really easy to understand how simple it is to overload a 1/2 ton pickup. mine were stupid learn the hard way mistakes because I did not belong to a forum that had experienced knowledgeable people to offer up experience to help me see my decisions in judgement had flaws. I had an f-150 tried to beef it up to pull a high pressure portable wash unit. that unit full of water weighed in at probably 10-11,000 pounds. it did not take me very long to figure out I needed a bigger truck. Even still the one ton I ended up pulling it with was totaled due to inability to stop it, the brakes failed jackknifed the truck and I rear-ended a pickup in front of me. I ended up hitting him so hard that his tailgate ended up against his back window. I have made way to many stupid decisions and learned many lessons from it. now I make certain my truck will pull and stop anything I could imagine putting behind it. I refuse to take any chances where the tow vehicle may not be big enough to handle what I am pulling. Through my decisions I have been way to close to hurting myself or someone else because I "thought" my truck was big enough.

As I said earlier in this thread.....
GVWR's can be safely exceeded. A 500lb weight limit doesn't mean things are going to go south at 501lbs. I'm not suggesting obvious overload factors here. I think the controversy may be the way the original question to this thread was asked.
Common sense should always prevail.

[tuffr2]

IMHO - anyone that can not tow at 72 mph needs a bigger truck. People that tow at 62 mph IMHO is a danger on the highway.

Right lane traffic on the highway travels 68 - 72 mph.

I had a undersized truck and made a 275 mile trip on the highway. I was towing at 62 in a 70 mph zone. This was on a 4 lane highway. Semi's were changing lanes to get around me. Cars were zooming by at 15mph faster and semi's were going 8 mph faster. It was not a fun trip.

That is how I decided I needed a bigger truck. I went for a Honda Ridgeline to a F-150. That was a night and day difference.

Also IMHO if J-2807 tows at 62 mph it is a bogus test.

[bross]

Originally Posted by 2upServant

77travco I have had premature failure of transmission, rear end issues, rotor warping from excessive heat during braking. all on my one ton dually. If I can overload a one ton dually and cause problems it should be really easy to understand how simple it is to overload a 1/2 ton pickup. mine were stupid learn the hard way mistakes because I did not belong to a forum that had experienced knowledgeable people to offer up experience to help me see my decisions in judgement had flaws. I had an f-150 tried to beef it up to pull a high pressure portable wash unit. that unit full of water weighed in at probably 10-11,000 pounds. it did not take me very long to figure out I needed a bigger truck. Even still the one ton I ended up pulling it with was totaled due to inability to stop it, the brakes failed jackknifed the truck and I rear-ended a pickup in front of me. I ended up hitting him so hard that his tailgate ended up against his back window. I have made way to many stupid decisions and learned many lessons from it. now I make certain my truck will pull and stop anything I could imagine putting behind it. I refuse to take any chances where the tow vehicle may not be big enough to handle what I am pulling. Through my decisions I have been way to close to hurting myself or someone else because I "thought" my truck was big enough.

I'm not questioning your decision to buy a bigger truck but by your own admission you were inexperienced. If you are warping rotors, then you are using your brakes either way too much or just plain not driving in the best, safest way possible. We spent 9 years living on the top of a mountain pass where our daily commute was 25km down into the valley and town on one of the longest, speepest grades in the country.

When we first moved up there my wife warped the rotors on her SUV from passing slow moving semi's creeping down the mountain, only to have to slam on her brakes for the upcoming switchback turn. Once I showed her and explained to her the need to down shift and use the transmission to slow her vehicle she then carried on to drive that mountain road for another 8 years on the same rotors.

We would pretty much smell brakes every trip down the mountain, following someone who rode their brakes all the way down. thinking they had an automatic transmission so why would "I" shift.

We regularly drove our 26,000lb class A motorhome down that grade and would only need one or two brief brake applications, otherwise using the transmission to keep our speed in check. Never owned a diesel so didn't have the luxury of an exhaust brake.

Our commute...


Though widened and somewhat straightened in the late 1950s, the road is still rumoured to include “the longest continuous hill in Canada” – 12 kilometres of seven and eight percent grades.

[Kid Gloves]

Originally Posted by move on

I think SAE J2807 is more of an engineering tool. Marketing was wrapped up in bragging about how much more they could tow/haul than their competitors. It must have driven the engineers crazy. In any event, I think it's a good thing that they came up with some standards that everyone finally agreed to. Still, J2807 is only a first attempt to level the playing field. I hope to see it expanded to define more limits for safe operation. How often do we see an undersized tow vehicle wallowing dangerously down the interstate with an oversized load? It's ridiculous. How come an 80,000 lb semi can safely do 80 mph while many 20,000 lb RV rigs struggle with 60 mph? We need more guidance from the manufacturers and their engineers as to what can be safely towed.

The question was directed toward Old-Biscuit. Myself and others welcome answers to the questions we’ve asked of you.

You’re chasing dragons in expecting a vehicle manufacturer to tell you that you can do anything safely with their product. Doing so would imply that the described activity is safe. That no one could possibly be harmed. They will not put themselves in that position.

[kdauto]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

IMHO - anyone that can not tow at 72 mph needs a bigger truck. People that tow at 62 mph IMHO is a danger on the highway.

Right lane traffic on the highway travels 68 - 72 mph.

I had a undersized truck and made a 275 mile trip on the highway. I was towing at 62 in a 70 mph zone. This was on a 4 lane highway. Semi's were changing lanes to get around me. Cars were zooming by at 15mph faster and semi's were going 8 mph faster. It was not a fun trip.

That is how I decided I needed a bigger truck. I went for a Honda Ridgeline to a F-150. That was a night and day difference.

Also IMHO if J-2807 tows at 62 mph it is a bogus test.

Towing at 100km/h (62MPH) I get 27.5l/100km. At 115 km/h (72 MPH) I'll be sucking 30l/100km. Not everyone is scared of traffic, and not all speed limits are 75MPH or more. Speed limits here are 100km/h everywhere.

If some idiot can't pass me while I'm in the right lane of a 2 or 3 lane highway maybe they should not be driving!

[tuffr2]

I think it has been proven that people driving at different speeds causes accidents

[imjustdave]

Originally Posted by 2upServant

Safety is where the rubber meets the road period. you should really never tow over roughly 80% of capacity or you will be looking at premature failure in a lot of cases. you personally may very well be the best driver in the world. You also may have the safest truck in the world. Oh wait the other guy does not. whoops hence the accident! when you are running against your limits you have no wiggle room when something goes wrong. what if your system has wear and tear on it and you are running at capacity at all times do you really believe you are safe? point in case I am having issues with my brake controller. it does not feel like it is doing it's job. it never has no matter what I do. I found out recently what the biggest part of the problem was and fixed that. even though my trailer is a 2018 we had to replace faulty brakes on the trailer. now 6 new sets of brakes, and reprogramming the brake controller I at least feel the brakes working to some degree. some would say good enough you have trailer brakes. I decided that the cost of a new brake controller to make sure everything is new and wired properly. working as designed. the right controller for the truck and trailer has a higher probability of stopping the truck and trailer than my thinking i might possibly have fixed the issue, but not 100 % sure. So I decided instead of hoping, my wife's life and my life plus anyone else I may hit is not worth taking that chance period. running at 100% capacity is hard on equipment when conditions are 100% ideal. how many times have you travelled where everything was 100 % ideal conditions? I am rated at rear axle at 19500 pounds rear axle, front axle at 13,000, chassis CGVWR 54000, I run about 15,000 rear axle and about 11,000 front axle when completely loaded. I have room to wiggle and not strain my equipment at all.

I think your confusing breaking strength with working loads.

You realize most stuff in life that has been engineered to a rating ... is well already under spec? Take rigging for example say a strap to hold wood down on a flat bed, Working loads Rating and breaking strength are 2 vastly different ratings. typically working is usually 1/3 of breaking, so you have a built in safety factor already by design criteria.

For a truck I doubt anyone past some engineers at the manufactures know the true breaking strength of a pickup. But I would consider the working load GVW of a truck to be well within the ability of the truck to do the job day in day out and millions of people do just this daily with zero issues.

Now if you have faulty equipment then you need to fix it. But if your under your rated ability I see no issue with that. If you want to be at 80% that's ok too but I wouldn't' be spreading it out to the world as you should never go over 80% as fear and doom will happen.

Millions of people go over GVW daily they aren't replacing X because they went GVW + 1 lb and the turck just fell apart. Now if you have a strap and go 1lb over breaking strength well... stand back and watch the show.

[Kid Gloves]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

IMHO - anyone that can not tow at 72 mph needs a bigger truck. People that tow at 62 mph IMHO is a danger on the highway.

Right lane traffic on the highway travels 68 - 72 mph.

I had a undersized truck and made a 275 mile trip on the highway. I was towing at 62 in a 70 mph zone. This was on a 4 lane highway. Semi's were changing lanes to get around me. Cars were zooming by at 15mph faster and semi's were going 8 mph faster. It was not a fun trip.

That is how I decided I needed a bigger truck. I went for a Honda Ridgeline to a F-150. That was a night and day difference.

Also IMHO if J-2807 tows at 62 mph it is a bogus test.

In my opinion, you may have just fallen off your rocker.

While towing speed is a touch off topic, how is towing at 72mph “safe”, on TT tires with a maximum speed rating of 65mph?

Additionally, while not as prevalent as in the past, there are, occasionally, some signs posted on the interstates which display a minimum speed, typically 45mph. Towing, or just driving at ~62mph in a 70mph, or an 80mph zone is perfectly legal. It really should be of no concern to you, that other drivers are disturbed by the fact that you are operating your vehicle in a legal manner.

[77Travco]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

IMHO - anyone that can not tow at 72 mph needs a bigger truck. People that tow at 62 mph IMHO is a danger on the highway.

Hahaha!!! Oh man!.. Now who could possibly argue with that! Talk about grabbing the wheel and dragging us all the way over to the other ditch!