New 5th Wheel weights/lengths out of control

[Nlambert]

Originally Posted by Jshopes81

You dont have to have 20% pin weight on a gooseneck. I bought a backhoe last year and used a gooseneck equipment trailer to move it. The rear of my truck barely moved and it towed great.

Rawr on a 1 ton dually is not 6390.

True.... i dug a little deeper and the RAWR on the particular truck in question is 9,750 lbs. It's 6,390 on a SRW.

However, GN hitches on these trucks are still limited to 30k lb max trailer weight which would put a 35k load over. You still have to factor in payload capacity, which isn't going to change regardless. I'd bet that backhoe and the trailer didn't break 35k lbs.


A Gooseneck should still be in the 20-25% pin weight range to balance the load. If you're unsure if that's true, call a GN trailer manufacturer and ask them. Goosenecks carry more weight on the pin than fifth wheel trailers because the axles are set further back on the trailer than a fifth wheel.

[BirchyBoy]

Originally Posted by southernlady

And yet, Alliance RV is putting two mid profile 5th wheels out this year. One is a 32, the other a 30 footer.

Alliance got on my radar last night. They seem like a very high quality, competitive priced 5th wheel.

I would like to find a 34’ “luxury” toy hauler with a compartment big enough for a motorcycle and a GVWR of 14k.

[southernlady]

This were the mid profile floorpans shared. They’ve also added a bunkhouse.

They are in the finishing stages of a second facility to start building tow behinds.

[Jshopes81]

Originally Posted by Nlambert

True.... i dug a little deeper and the RAWR on the particular truck in question is 9,750 lbs. It's 6,390 on a SRW.

However, GN hitches on these trucks are still limited to 30k lb max trailer weight which would put a 35k load over. You still have to factor in payload capacity, which isn't going to change regardless. I'd bet that backhoe and the trailer didn't break 35k lbs.


A Gooseneck should still be in the 20-25% pin weight range to balance the load. If you're unsure if that's true, call a GN trailer manufacturer and ask them. Goosenecks carry more weight on the pin than fifth wheel trailers because the axles are set further back on the trailer than a fifth wheel.

Single wheel 1 ton rawr is over 7. I have no idea what 6390 is. Maybe 3/4 ton?

The backhoe being under 35k is irrelevant since i was talking about how the trailer was loaded.

I dont need to call a gooseneck manufacturer to ask where their axles are placed, ive driven them for the last 10 years.

[Nlambert]

Originally Posted by Jshopes81

Single wheel 1 ton rawr is over 7. I have no idea what 6390 is. Maybe 3/4 ton?

The backhoe being under 35k is irrelevant since i was talking about how the trailer was loaded.

I dont need to call a gooseneck manufacturer to ask where their axles are placed, ive driven them for the last 10 years.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/chryslermed...rhh9udegr4.pdf

See page 6
Ram 2500:
Ram 2500, reg cab, 4x2, tradesman, 8' box: Rear GAWR - 6,000
Ram 2500, reg cab, 4x2, tradesman, W/O Box: Rear GAWR - 6,390

See page 10 & 11
Ram 3500:
Ram 3500, reg cab, 4x2, tradesman, 8'box, SRW: Rear GAWR 7,000
Ram 3500, reg cab, 4x2, tradesman, 8'box, DRW: Rear GAWR 9,750


If you don't think that you can overload a truck with a Gooseneck and that pin weight isn't a factor, you might want to call them. And as I said earlier, 20% of a 35k Gooseneck is 7k lbs on the nose, which puts the truck at it's max GAWR with zero room to spare. So if you don't load it exactly right, you've just exceeded the RAWR.

Strange how people will decide that payload info provided by the manufacturer doesn't really matter, and pin weight isn't as important but will swear by the max trailer weight rating that's provided by the same people. It all matters. If you're out on any one of the specs, you might as well be out on them all.

Anyhow, we are digressing from the topic at hand.

[Jshopes81]

I never said to ignore any ratings. Youre coming to that conclusion on your own. If youre pulling a block of steel that weighs 20k lbs you can put it pretty square over the trailer axles and be in alot more control of how much pin weight you have. As long as you have some pin weight it wont be a problem with a gooseneck or 5th wheel.

[2upServant]

I am probably going to take a lot of flack for this statement but here goes. Most 5th wheels still use electric brakes that get hot and fail putting all the stopping power to the tow vehicle. so imagine 20,000 pound trailer being pulled by a 9000 truck you need to do an emergency stop because some ding dong pulls out in front of you. your brakes get hot and fade, you have 20 k pushing 9 k who wins ? the trailer is going to go wherever it wants. I pulled our toy hauler with an F-350 warped the brake rotors and dropped the tranny. Our new trailer GVWR is 24 k . traded my truck for the M2-112 freightliner sport chassis. I no longer worry about the trailer pushing me anywhere. as the poster in another thread stated the biggest reason for crashes are too small a tow vehicle and the drivers in ability to control the vehicle. Simple deduction says a 20,000 pound trailer forty feet long attached to a twenty foot long pick up at 9000 pounds does not take much of a brain to figure out which one will control in a push come to shove situation.

[Phantom13]

We had a 48'Teton with 5 slides and 4 axles custom made for us. Pulled it with a Volvo 660 tractor. The 5th wheels aren't getting too big, you just need to pull them with the proper equipment. Doesn't matter how big or little it is if you try to pull it with a 1/2 ton pickup. Get the right size truck !

[xrated]

Originally Posted by Nlambert

They advertise that, but with caveats that it only applies to the unicorn truck.
-Reg cab
-DRW
-8' bed
-2wd
- Base model (Tradesman)

but I don't see how they can get there even on that truck for a multitude of reasons.

1) Payload is 6,570 lbs. 20% (pin weight) of a 35k fifth wheel or gooseneck is 7,420 lbs so you'd be over payload by almost 1k lbs before adding in passengers, cargo, etc...

2) Tongue weight of a 35k lb trailer would be roughly 5,250 lbs.

3) RAWR is 6,390 lbs. So the pin weight would be over the GAWR.

4) 5th wheel hitches are limited to 19k lbs. Gooseneck is rated for 30k. You'd be over on both.

5) Even a Class 5 receiver hitch is only rated for up to 18k lbs and are only rated for a tongue weight of up to 1,800 lbs. You'd be way over.

Really, I've got a B&W Companion that is rated for 25K lbs with over 6000 lbs of pin weight.

[BikesAndGuns]

Originally Posted by KerrTx

Is it just me? Are all the new 5th wheel lengths and weights getting to the point you have to have a DRW? I'm not talking about the Ultra Lights, but more of the higher end, full-time. It seems like there use to be a lot more product choice for something in 35' length with a 15,000 GVWR. Everything I'm seeing new on the market are 37' with minimum 17,000 GVWR. I'm not saying you can't use a SRW 1 ton to move some of these, but you are running really close and maybe over the max tow vehicle capabilities once your fully loaded. Add to that the road conditions are almost never ideal, it's risky business. I feel better knowing there is a cushion between what I'm towing and what I can tow.

We have a 2018 Heartland Cyclone 4200 Fifth Wheel Toy Hauler. It is 34' with 20,000 GVWR. We pull it with a 2011 GMC Sierra 350HD Dually Diesel. Shortly after I got my Nevada driver's license, I was looking at the back of it and realized that I was not allowed to drive our rig because in total it weighed well over 26,000 lbs! Apparently I needed a non-commercial Class A license, which required a special driving test and I was back in Arizona by then.

Anysway, I figured I'd get a South Dakota license on my way out to the east coast from Arizona and said as much on this forum. Fortunately, a very wise person pointed out that, should I have an accident, I would be driving with an invalid license and my insurance company could deny the claim. So....I booked a flight from Arizona to South Dakota, flew in on day 1, rented a car and stayed at a hotel that shared a parking lot with the DMV. On day 2, I walked across the parking lot and into the DMV where I was the only one in line and 15 minutes later I was a fully-licensed resident of South Dakota. Drove to the airport and flew home. Whew!

[xrated]

Originally Posted by BikesAndGuns

We have a 2018 Heartland Cyclone 4200 Fifth Wheel Toy Hauler. It is 34' with 20,000 GVWR. We pull it with a 2011 GMC Sierra 350HD Dually Diesel. Shortly after I got my Nevada driver's license, I was looking at the back of it and realized that I was not allowed to drive our rig because in total it weighed well over 26,000 lbs! Apparently I needed a non-commercial Class A license, which required a special driving test and I was back in Arizona by then.

Anysway, I figured I'd get a South Dakota license on my way out to the east coast from Arizona and said as much on this forum. Fortunately, a very wise person pointed out that, should I have an accident, I would be driving with an invalid license and my insurance company could deny the claim. So....I booked a flight from Arizona to South Dakota, flew in on day 1, rented a car and stayed at a hotel that shared a parking lot with the DMV. On day 2, I walked across the parking lot and into the DMV where I was the only one in line and 15 minutes later I was a fully-licensed resident of South Dakota. Drove to the airport and flew home. Whew!

I think you meant to type....44' long, not 34'!

[tuffr2]

Yep, I knew about that 26,000 or 25,999lb. threshold. I think it was thru the grapwvine somethow. the rig that I had came in under 25,000lbs by a few.

[barrys]

Whatever the length, please try to keep your tail in on your side of the road, Especially on cures to he left If you can't drive on the fog line stay on the interstate.

[SR71jetmech]

Originally Posted by Ray,IN

The 2021 Ram 3500 W/ Cummins 6.7 diesel, 2WD has a maximum towing capacity of 35,000#

Mine says 37000# HOWEVER, in the owner’s manual it specifically states a 5th wheel to 30000#.

Mine is ‘21 Ram 3500 DRW 4X4 CC LB HO Aisin.

Fifth wheel weighs are different than how they rate these towing capabilities. And payload always gets topped first on a fifth wheel.