New Truck-no fifth wheel help GVWR etc.

[MKOwen]

We are about ready to sell our house and retire by June 29th! We have a brand new truck which we will pick up in SD the first part of May. I am trying to figure out whether we can buy a Fifth Wheel before we actually have the truck here with us. I am still a bit confused by how to figure out what size, weight, etc. for our fifth wheel. We are looing for no more than 32 feet.

These our the specs for our truck (I think it's pretty powerful but just want to be sure I don't get the wrong size and weight fiver).

RAM 3500 dually
Engine 6.7 liter Cummins diesel
GVWR 14,000
3.42 Axel Ratio
20,000 lb. direct mount hitch
fifth wheel gooseneck towing

Capacities/weights
fuel 32
GVWR 14,000 MAX
GVWR 11,000 Standard
Payload Cap. standard 4,450
Towing capacity 29,000 Max
Towing capacity 10,900 standard

I am not too mathy-that's dh's strongpoint but he is too busy right now.
I don't know why ther is a standard and a maximum. It looks liek our truck has a GVWR of 14.000, our payload is 4,450 so if our maximum towing capacity is 29,000, does that mean that we need to get a fifth wheel that is no more than 10,900 lbs? That seems kind of light.

Thanks for your help!

[dayle1]

No, it means you MIGHT be able to pull a 29k trailer with an empty truck. But every pound you load into the truck subtracts from the amount of weight you can tow. A trailer with a max weight of 29k when loaded could have a pin weight in of 6000 lbs which would exceed your carrying weight. In reality you would have a hard time exceeding the truck's limits with the size trailer you are seeking. But when you find the trailer you like it will probably be longer (and heavier) than your original goal.

[PastorRon]

Is the payload number off the sticker on the door pillar or off a chart? The only payload number that matters is on the door. Payload is vehicle specific.

[Funhaus]

I have a similar truck but mine is a 2013 Ram, 6.7 cummins DRW 4x4 crew cab, 8'box, 3.42 rear end. My door sticker says payload 5608.
The specs from the factory for my 5er are 44' long, dry weight 16,181,payload 3819, pin weight 3532.
I added the Airlift 5000 air bags to level the truck back out after hitching up.
I think you will be fine, mine pulls this unit right down the road without a problem.

[Flyte Risk]

Truck year and transmission? I pull a 38 foot fifth with room to spare using a 2014 Ram 3500 SRW. You should be clean up to 15k lbs. My truck is a bit over 8k unladen and my trailer is 12k dry and empty. All up I'm still under GVWR.

[tuffr2]

You will be able to tow 100's of 5th wheels and be within specs of your truck. There will be a few custom rigs from SpaceCraft, New Horizon or Forks RV and maybe Luxe and DRV might be too heavy.

Most DRV and Luxe will be within specs but the largest ones might be too heavy.

If you pick up your truck in SD I would start from there. Heck, you can reach the best parts of the country easy from SD...

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by MKOwen

I am trying to figure out whether we can buy a Fifth Wheel before we actually have the truck here with us.

Of course you can, if you don't insist on buying the heaviest possible fifth wheel RV trailer that your Ram might could tow. You'll have to do some estimating and guessing, so as long as you leave a generous fudge factor in your estimates, you should be able to buy a nice 32' to 35' 5er based on specs of the truck.

I am still a bit confused by how to figure out what size, weight, etc. for our fifth wheel. ....
RAM 3500 dually
Engine 6.7 liter Cummins diesel
GVWR 14,000
Payload Cap. standard 4,450
Towing capacity 29,000 Max
Towing capacity 10,900 standard

...I don't know why ther is a standard and a maximum.

Because RAM makes "one ton" pickups with different engines, different transmissions, different drivelines (4x2 and 4x4), different bed lengths, different cabs, and different number of wheels on the rear axle. Your 3500 dually diesel should max out at a GVWR of 14,000, with payload of at least 4,450, and probably closer to 6,000.

The towing capacity max of 29,000 is for the diesel engine with the proper rear axle. The towing capacity standard is with the standard gasoline engine.

It looks liek our truck has a GVWR of 14.000, our payload is 4,450 so if our maximum towing capacity is 29,000, does that mean that we need to get a fifth wheel that is no more than 10,900 lbs? That seems kind of light.

No. The towing capacity is the max weight of the trailer with nothing in the truck but a skinny driver. Or GCWR minus the weight of the empty truck with nothing in it but a skinny driver.

So if your pickup has absolutely nothing in it that wasn't installed by the factory, and the factory installed no options other than the engine and automagic tranny, then you could tow a trailer that grossed up to 29,000 pounds. But of course your pickup has lots of options and it will be loaded with people and pets and tools and other gear, so you cannot tow anywhere near 29,000 pounds, but that should still leave you with the ability to tow a nice 32' 5er.

Towing capacity is not the only limiter as to the max weight of a trailer you can tow. GVWR and rear GAWR are also limiters. GVWR is the max weight that can be on the two axles of the truck. Rear GAWR is the max weight that can be on the rear axle of the truck.

Whichever limiter you hit first will be the deciding limiter for your tow vehicle. The most common limiter is the GVWR of your Ram.

Typical wet and loaded weight of a dually diesel tow vehicle is about 10,000 pounds. That leaves 4,000 pounds for maximum hitch weight. Subtract 200 pounds for a good 5er hitch and that leaves 3,800 pounds for the max pin weight of a 5er without being overloaded. Pin weight (weight of the kingpin on the hitch) averages about 20% for medium-size 5ers. So divide 3800 by 0.2 (20%) and the max weight of a normal 5er you can tow without overloading your Ram is 19,000 pounds.

The most popular fifth-wheel RV in the 35-foot class for the last several years has been the Keystone Montana. The model 3121RL is probably just what you're looking for in a nice medium-sized 5er. The specs say 35' long, but the model number indicates closer to 32'. I suspect that means tip of the pinbox to tail (back of spare tire) is 35', but interior front to rear walls is closer to 32'. GVWR of 16,380 is well within your weight limiter of ~19,000.
Montana 3120RL

[Muddflap]

Actually Ram calculates the tow rating with: Passenger Weight = 300 lb
Options Weight = 100 lb. Trailering Equipment Weight: 75 lb for Conventional Hitch, 70 lb for Gooseneck and 250 lb for 5th Wheel.

https://m.ramtrucks.com/assets/towin...ing_charts.pdf

[MKOwen]

I will show this to my husband. It looks like we can tow anything 35' or under safely then. We only want a 32 footer so we should be fine. I'm goingto go shop around a little next week to see what there is around here. Thanks for your help!!!!!!

[CWSWine]

Here is a video put out by RV Safety that might help you understand some of the ratings.

https://rvsafety.com/rv-education/ma...ks-to-trailers

[khuffmanjr]

Just for reference, the Dually RAMs can have one of three rear axle ratios and offer three transmission options, since we're talking diesel here.

The high output RAM in a crew cab (4 door) long bed with AISIN tranny and 3.42, 3.73 and 4.10 rear end will give you 20520, 25020 and 30320 lbs towing, respectively.

The non-high output RAM in crew cab long bed with the 68RFE tranny (the "normal auto") with 3.42, 3.73 and 4.10 rear end will give you 16660, 18660 and 21660 lbs towing, respectively.

Now, you said it was the 3.42 rear end, so we're at either 16660lbs or 20520lbs. That's nearly 4000lbs difference so it would help to know if you're getting the high output cummins with the AISIN transmission.

As for payload, well...you'll be good on payload. 14000lbs GVWR will cover an extremely wide range of fifth wheels on the market today. Certainly anything close to the length you're looking at would work completely within the payload numbers for your truck.

Would you be able to tell us if the truck will have the AISIN transmission? Also, its important to note the non-AISIN would certainly pull a much larger trailer than 16660lbs without much trouble, but you'll more likely go over the max towing weight with the non-AISIN. Some of the more popular full profile fifth wheels are anywhere from 16000lbs to 18000lbs GVWR. Heavier luxury fifth wheels can approach 24000lbs or more. Toy haulers will likely be 20000lbs and up too. The truck would do it, regardless of options, but its best, and safest, to stay within the ratings from RAM.

Good luck!

Ken

[MKOwen]

Hopefully I'm replying to the right person. Ken or Khuffmanjr, what I have on the specs fo rour transmission is that it is a 6 speed Automatic 66RFE transmission. I do not know if it's an AISIN or not. Maybe my husband does but he's not here right now. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

[MKOwen]

For some reason there was no video there. I was in the right place but when I clicked it, nothing happened. Oh well. Maybe I'll try again later. Thanks.

[MKOwen]

I showed my husband the thread on here about my GVWR and his response was : We're worried about the combined gross vehicle weight ratio adding up to more than 26,000. Because then we would legally need a class A license, not necessarily a CDL. That is my husband's comment. He's having trouble finding anyone that will just do a Class A license, they are all geared for CDL's.

Can you respond to that? Thanks. I'm the go between, I guess :-)