Nissan Titan to get new Cummins V8 Diesel?

[lanerd]

We were at the FMCA Redmond Oregon rally last week, and Cummins had a new 5.0 liter "V8" diesel engine on display. After checking it out, I asked one of the Cummins guys there what it was going to be used for. His answer really surprised me....Nissan Titan.

The only info I could find indicated that the low payload capacity of the Titan would stay the same...so what good will it do to put a diesel in this truck?



Ron

[Cummins12V98]

Was planned for the RAM's but they decided to go with the Italian engine. What a shame!

EcoDiesel what a stupid name!

[Scarab0088]

The topic was discussed last year here: http://www.irv2.com/forums/f123/new-...v8-187165.html

The reason to offer a Diesel option is two fold:
Typically about 30% better MPG for similar displacement engines.
Engine lifespan.

The reason Dodge (Ram) went with the Italian engine for the 1500 is - remember, Chrysler is now owned primarily by Fiat. The new Ram Van is just a rebadged Fiat Ducato. Exact repeat of when Dodge brought the Mercedes Sprinter to the US when the owner was German.

I welcome these options. Like, there is a VW Golf TDI, available in the EU that gets 75MPG!!! Bring that to America and I will be at the front of the line to buy one for my Toad!

Safe travels

[Bamaman]

And don't forget that Fiat's by far the largest manufacturer of diesel engines in the world. I wouldn't be surprised if they make more diesels than Cummins, Navistar and Caterpillar combined.

Fiat also owns Case-New Holland ag tractors and construction equipment. They also own Kobelco construction equipment and a number of track excavator companies. They also have joint diesel engine projects with other large manufacturers--including many of the car companies in Europe.

If you saw that engine factory in Northern Italy, you'd be very impressed. The Ram 1/2 ton diesel is not a new engine--in use in Europe for quite sometime.

The Nissan/Cummins 1/2 ton engine is completely new, and they've spent an absolute fortune developing it and building the assembly lines in Columbus, IN. After they made the fiscal commitment, the company that contracted the engine turned it down. Now, Nissan has been pitched the engine at a big discount, and they're engineering a completely new Miss. built truck to put that engine in.

[schrederman]

I saw somewhere that Fiat/Chrysler is engineering a 4.0 L diesel for the next generation 1500... Anyone else hearing that?

[Scarab0088]

It's a 3.0L, like mentioned above it is called the EcoDiesel: Ram EcoDiesel - Fuel Economy, Power & Efficiency - Ram Trucks

[09 harley]

That Cummins 5 liter is also going into the Tundra!

[gggplaya]

Keep in mind that likely the Titan 5.0cummins V8 is likely going to be in the same ballpark as a 2500 pickup.

It made sense for Ram to go with a VM Motorri diesel engine because fiat own full stake in VM Motorri and most of chrysler. So likely they cut out the middle man and simply shift funding for R&D and production to VM motorri to make engines for them. If fiat keeps VM Motorri as a low profit subsidiary, then that means cheaper automobiles, which means capturing more sales and marketshare, which is what ram has been doing like crazy the last 3-4 years.

You can get a ram ecodiesel for under $30k, i really doubt you'll get a titan cummins diesel under $40k.

Also, in a youtube video the chrysler engineer explained they did extensive testing with the engine and projected fuel economy of the cummins to be around 23-24mpg, while the 3.0 ecodiesel would be closer to 30mpg. So essentially the ecodiesel was a smarter choice because you get get better fuel economy and a lower initial purchase price.

While the cummins V8 in the titan is cool, it only makes sense for certain niche individuals which tow light-medium duty a lot, or tow all the time and want specifically a half ton pickup. You'll never recoup the cost in mileage as the gassers are pushing 22-23mpg in the V8's.

[Cumminsfan]

Ram went with the 3.0 because they needed to meet the CAFE standards and their line up doesn't produce enough high mpg vehicles. The Cummins 5.0 won't give the mpg that Ram needs to meet CAFE standards.

If Nissan and Toyota don't beef up the trucks that they're going to use the Cummins 5.0 in then all will be moot.

[gggplaya]

Originally Posted by Cumminsfan

Ram went with the 3.0 because they needed to meet the CAFE standards and their line up doesn't produce enough high mpg vehicles. The Cummins 5.0 won't give the mpg that Ram needs to meet CAFE standards.

If Nissan and Toyota don't beef up the trucks that they're going to use the Cummins 5.0 in then all will be moot.

I really don't think that's true. They have the Fiat Doblo coming to the states which should boast relatively high mpg for the RAM brand, and the V6 1500 gets 25mpg highway, and the ram minivan gets 26mpg, the 28mpg of the ecodiesel isn't going to make much of a dent in the fleet average, especially considering the HD trucks aren't even rated. Even so, they are way ahead of the curve for light duty trucks. The government reach a deal with automakers which basically saves face for both, where they can use mathmatical models to come up with a relatively fictitious representation of CAFE mileage, meanwhile the EPA sticker is far less than their "CAFE" rating. A car that gets 29 EPA mpg is equivalent to a car that gets 39 mpg on the CAFE scale. They are totally different scales. A light truck that gets 23mpg EPA is equivalent to a light truck that gets 30mpg on the CAFE scale.
When CAFE Meets EPA: A Tale of Two Fuel Economy Standards - AutoObserver

Scroll down the wiki about 3/4 of the way, you'll see a chart with the CAFE and EPA target ratings by year. Corporate Average Fuel Economy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As you can see, the ram truck brand already meets the 2025 rating with their V6 truck. They're good up to about 2021 even with just the V8 hemi if they can up the average by about 2mpg. That's easy to do by lowering the truck, use low rolling resistance tires, and maybe aluminum body like the ford.

[Cumminsfan]

Here you go How Does Fiat Chrysler's CAFE Standings Affect Consumers? - PickupTrucks.com News

[w6pea]

I was going to purchase a new Dodge 3500. I can see it now they are going to be using the italian motors soon than later. I guess I will purchase a Ford F-Series again.

[gggplaya]

Originally Posted by Cumminsfan

Here you go How Does Fiat Chrysler's CAFE Standings Affect Consumers? - PickupTrucks.com News

There's a huge descrepancy with that article and an agreement Obama made with all the largest american auto makers in 2011. In 2011 they revised the chart to reflect vehicle "footprint" which allowed for lowered CAFE standards based on size. In the 2011 agreement it says the target for 2013 for a ram 1500 would be 22.5mpg, but in the article you linked it says the target was 25.3mpg. Not really sure what to believe here.

For the past few years, Ram has been introducing all sorts of technologies to improve fuel economy. Nick Cappa, Ram spokesman, said it is also customer demand that is driving better fuel economy.

"Our research tells us that fuel economy is the No. 1 unmet customer need in half-ton trucks, and we own the top two spots [25 mpg highway with the Pentastar V-6 and 28 mpg highway with the EcoDiesel V-6]," Cappa said. "The numbers tell the story. Our strategy works. Ram's powertrain offerings set the standard. In the fuel economy race, we are clearly ahead of our competitors."

While what Cappa says is true, it is also true that Ram, like all automakers, is focusing on meeting CAFE regulations.

In the quote from the article you linked, it shows that the ram spokeman talks about customer demand as being the driving point for the fuel efficient trucks. But its the author of the pickuptrucks.com article that keeps insinuating ram is trying to meet CAFE standards. FCA has to buy emissions and CAFE credits for the rest of their product line, which is underperforming in those areas. All they have is the DART and Fiat 500, both of which are underperforming in sales. It's doubtful they can build a hybrid and sell it in enough quantity to meet CAFE, so this is why FCA announced they are bringing more diesel's to the states. Coupled with the fact that Euro6 and Tier4 emissions will be aligned in 2016. Meaning whatever they make for europe doesn't have to be redesigned for the states, they just have to get EPA approval. This is how they'll get in line with CAFE standards by 2016-2017. If the dodge journey had the engine of it's fiat freemont counterpart in europe, it would sell very well here in the states. The ram sells about 200k trucks a year, and the ecodiesel has about a 20% take rate. SO that's only 40k units to offset the rest of the product line, doesn't seem like enough to me.

Check this video interview with RAM on the new ecodiesel. Skip to 3:40 where they talk about going with this over the cummins. He says it's because the cummins didn't have an engine with low enough displacement to fit the duty cycle and needs of a light duty customer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jujbpbawqDc

[09 harley]

Just a quick note.

(Mod Edit)

Let's hope that more intelligent individuals come up with CAFE and pollution control solutions. Who out there likes the new diesels that are almost choked to death? Enough rambling.