Nissan Titan with Cummins Diesel

[Cumminsfan]

Originally Posted by bobbin

Agree with your comments: imho the XD is a better choice than the F150. People seem unaware of basic physics: the XD has more mass than the F150, and so will be better able to control the forces applied by the TT or 5W. Also, the XD has a heavier, stronger rear axle than the F150 [even with the upgrades to the F150]. I see the XD price has dropped, so this makes it much more competitive, but should drop a bit further yet.

No argument with me about mass controlling mass. However the XD just doesn't have the capacity to carry enough weight for anything but the smallest 5th wheels. If thats what someone wants then fine.
I guess engineers don't know something according to your post. The HD F150 can tow 12,000+lbs and carry 2500+/- lbs. Thats more than the XD. The F150 weighs less and has plenty of power with the 3.5 EB which means it will perform better when towing. I would much rather tow a 9,000 lb 5th wheel with an HD F150 over the XD. With the XD I's be over my weight ratings.

[Demiles]

Originally Posted by Cumminsfan

No argument with me about mass controlling mass. However the XD just doesn't have the capacity to carry enough weight for anything but the smallest 5th wheels. If thats what someone wants then fine.
I guess engineers don't know something according to your post. The HD F150 can tow 12,000+lbs and carry 2500+/- lbs. Thats more than the XD. The F150 weighs less and has plenty of power with the 3.5 EB which means it will perform better when towing. I would much rather tow a 9,000 lb 5th wheel with an HD F150 over the XD. With the XD I's be over my weight ratings.

Fords highest fifth wheel rating for the 2017 F150 is 11700 and that's with a 15% pinweight according to SAE standard which is 1755. So that means the max pin rating weight is 1755 not 2500. So 20% pinweight would limit the fifth wheel to 8800 lbs. Now my XD has a max pin weight rating of 1773lbs so that puts the fifth wheel capability really close to the same for both trucks. Sounds to me like those engineers at Ford just want mislead uninformed consumers, just as they've done to you.

[leeshearer]

If your pin weight rating is 1755 lbs, what is the cargo capacity of your truck?

[Demiles]

Originally Posted by leeshearer

If your pin weight rating is 1755 lbs, what is the cargo capacity of your truck?

1818lbs on the sticker and it's 1773 pin weight rating.

[Oldelevatorman]

Originally Posted by Demiles

1818lbs on the sticker and it's 1773 pin weight rating.

Nice try, probably wouldn't want to tow a 5th wheel with 1773 pin and 1800 ccc. More like 12-1300 pin to give you some room for gear and common sense or get a trailer!

[bobbin]

excuse, but imho the numbers do not tally. per the Ford site, the F150 max towing requires the 3.73, modified suspension, tranny cooler, etc, which add weight. the specs indicate: gcw 17000#, gvw 7000#, curb/tare 5200#.

gvw - curb = max payload. 7000 - 5200 = 1800# payload.

gcw - gvw = max tow load. 17000 - 7000 = 10,000#.

so at 20% pin weight, the max 5W weight is = 1800/.20 = 9000 which is close to the 10k# above. if 25% pin wgt, than 5W wgt is only 7600#.

the F150 is lightly built. the numbers indicate to me the F150 is not suited for any 5W. but could be suited for light travel trailers.

recall: the XD has a much heftier rear axle and brakes.

just my opinion. to each his own.

[Oldelevatorman]

Originally Posted by bobbin

excuse, but imho the numbers do not tally. per the Ford site, the F150 max towing requires the 3.73, modified suspension, tranny cooler, etc, which add weight. the specs indicate: gcw 17000#, gvw 7000#, curb/tare 5200#.

gvw - curb = max payload. 7000 - 5200 = 1800# payload.

gcw - gvw = max tow load. 17000 - 7000 = 10,000#.

so at 20% pin weight, the max 5W weight is = 1800/.20 = 9000 which is close to the 10k# above. if 25% pin wgt, than 5W wgt is only 7600#.

the F150 is lightly built. the numbers indicate to me the F150 is not suited for any 5W. but could be suited for light travel trailers.

recall: the XD has a much heftier rear axle and brakes.

just my opinion. to each his own.

I towed a big TT with my '11 f150 eco-boost, 31' ORV Wind River which weighed about 7800 to Canada and back. Plenty of power, stopped good, it just broke down 3 times on our last 8-week trip around the West. Selling dealer did pay some of our expenses which was nice of them. But traded it in on a dually when we got home and bought a fifth wheel and are full timing. I never would have towed any size fifth wheel with it however.

[Demiles]

An F150 can tow a fifth wheel and stay under its ratings, it's possible. With that said a Titan XD will tow right up to its max rating with ease which has led quite a few of its owners to go to fifth wheels some in 1800-2200 range. Would I? No I wouldn't but the XD does have some reserve , its obvious once you tow with it.

[bobbin]

agree. during my short trip with the XD, I formed the impression this truck could give more than its ratings. except for fuel consumption: this is higher than expected when towing.

[guy65]

Originally Posted by bobbin

agree. during my short trip with the XD, I formed the impression this truck could give more than its ratings. except for fuel consumption: this is higher than expected when towing.

the XD is actually a 3/4 ton truck down- labeled as 1/2 ton, because it would not be able to compete with a standard 2500. But you still pay the price for a 2500 from the competition- it's not about if it's a good truck or not, it's about that you actually have a bigger sized truck which actually can't do stuff, what the bigger sized trucks can do, but you have to pay for it. every 1500 is cheaper, every 2500 cost the same (some even less) and can do WAY more.
Yes, it could do more, but because of government regulations, emission regulations and classifications, this truck is a circumcised super bad performing 2500. That's why Nissan put it into the 1500 class, where, of course it has great performance compared to the other 1500's.
And especially the fuel consumption compared with power, torque, weight and emissions are the reasons, why RAM rejected the engine and went with the 6.7L Cummins. Yes- this is, how old this engine is and was laying on the shelf at Cummins, until someone comes and grasses it up, just to be able to put a Cummins- badge on the fender and give at least a few people a reason to buy a completely old concept truck, which would not be able to survive on the market on it's own.
Actually- Nissan wanted to built the new Titan on RAM base, at RAM Assembly Plant. The deal was put on hold due to the turmoil during the Fiat engagement. The next plan was to assemble it at Toyota on Tundra platform. But Toyota was giving conditions, where every normal person would say: I'd rather die. This was the reason, why Nissan thought- ok- one more try and if that ain't working, we kill the program. The Titan is the result. Not good enough to play in the league where it was planned for and not even better than everything else a level lower. The Titan will reach it's destiny sooner or later, if they don't accept, that the only way to survive, is make the truck available for under $35000 in a comparable trim level. But even then- it's an exotic truck, which has absolutely nothing appealing. The sales numbers don't lie- and don't let them blend you with: we sold 100% more vehicles- well- if you sold 5 and now 10- still not enough to cover the cost.
I'm not saying the Titan is a bad truck- But it just don't fit anywhere in. And this will kill it.

[Demiles]

You obviously haven't been out shopping for a new truck recently. There's very little difference in price between 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks in the same configuration and trim levels.

[guy65]

Originally Posted by Demiles

You obviously haven't been out shopping for a new truck recently. There's very little difference in price between 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks in the same configuration and trim levels.

not really- the 1/2 tons are mostly higher trim level and the 3/4 tons are low trim level but having things stock, what the 1/2 tons are packed in extra. Compare a big horn 1500 with tow package and 4x4- it will have a similar price than a 2500 Tradesman 4x4 and 5.7L Hemi for almost the same price. and it has chrome bumpers and other stuff, what's normally in a 1500 SLT, like the radio, rear slide window, etc..., what is the reason that even in basic base, the 2500 does not look cheap, as the 1500 tradesman does. But if you go with a similar equipped Tradesman 1500, there are ~$5000 in between. I check all the time, when I'm at the dealer for my free oil changes. The 2500 has always Tow package for example, most of them 4x4. things, what cost ~$5000 extra at a 1500. If you then count the big horn package, you loose up to 400# payload compared to the tradesman. It's always what you want- a luxury cruiser to impress middle aged women on wally world parking lot, or want them to actually work. And for some reason, everyone wants to have the big horn, Laramie, longhorn edition- lots of useless blinkblink and then complaining, when you realize, that it can't do more than a Kia SUV, because it's so loaded with stuff you need just once in your lifetime (example electric seat adjustment, programming more than 30 radio stations and still listen always to one and the same, super duper trip computer and still having always one and the same setting, leather seats and putting a towel on it because the sweat runs down your spine, super duper electronic regulated AC and still just simply turn it on max cold, when you need it, etc...) or starting to cry because it got dirty from the mud-puddle in the driveway- even worse- someone steps into your truck and has dirt on the shoes!!!!.
It's everyone's personal preference- I prefer a midgrade trim, where I have some amenities but not overloaded. I live on 32 acres and need it also to work- so 4x4 is a must have to and I can regulate my A/C alone plus- I wash it every 2 weeks, if I have time for it- not that I love dirty trucks- I like it clean- but I have more important stuff to do. A truck can have some comfort, but other than that- it's a truck. That's why I have specifically the SLT trim, which cost me almost no payload or tow capacity. I also have the poopie 17" rims- which is actually better for heavy loads than the fashion-wheels in trail wagon size, what they put on there now. - if I want to have a luxury vehicle, I buy a Mercedes 600SL.
And before I buy me a captive 2500, labeled as 1500 because it would never be able to compete with the class where it's actually in, I go and buy me a 2500 to begin with for the same amount of money. The Nissan is a joke in my eyes. Every 5.7L Hemi has a better fuel mileage as gasser than that wannabe tool. Even when you tow. and if you see the max tow of a 1500 Hemi- it's almost the same. Now tell me one reason for the Nissan- except someone likes the look of it, which I don't dispute- I actually like the front.

[Demiles]

" Now tell me one reason for the Nissan- except someone likes the look of it, which I don't dispute- I actually like the front"

Did I insult your Ram or something? I've never driven one so I won't comment. I'm not going to keep repeating myself so go back and read the whole thread. Maybe read up on the SAE J2807 standard and see how they come up with the ratings.

[guy65]

Demiles- It doesn't matter. I know the specs and I was very interested in the truck because of the diesel- which I would actually prefer over a 3.0 V6. I expected it to be something spectacular and to be an alternative. It's not. I know, you have one and I believe, you're happy with. I would not like to have it, after what I know and buy a 2500 either gas or diesel, before I buy a Nissan XD. You did not insult my RAM. What you might not know- I work in the Automotive industry and have some deeper information. I said also- the XD is not a bad truck, only that it was a chance to do something right, because it was designed from scratch. The engineers had all chances to pull it off. And they screwed it up for reasons I mentioned. It's not a bad truck- but that's about it. It did not make it into my radar- especially because of the disappointing motor, which, how I already said, was castrated even more to be able to cramp it into the light duty class (LD Class is way more restricted and regulated by EPA with emissions and gas mileage, which castrates the engines for about 30% of it's potential), because if it would be in the class it belongs, it would be the worst of the worst.
I know, if you have it, you don't want to hear it- but that's what it is from technical standpoint. And that's the criteria I choose my truck by. But nice front it has, though...