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Old 03-14-2021, 11:38 PM   #1
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ORV 23DBS w/ F150 HDPP

Wondering what everyone's objective thoughts on towing a Outdoors RV 23DBS with a 2021 F150 Crew Cab with the Heavy Duty Payload Package and 3.5L Ecoboost.

I know everyone will recommend an F250 or more. But with the HDPP on the F150 what are your thoughts? We will never be towing near the GVWR of the trailer (never travel with water).

Specs:
ORV 23DBS
Dry Weight - 6350#
GVWR - 9995#
Tongue Weight (12% of GVWR) - 1200#
Length - 27'9"

2021 F150
SuperCrew Cab
3.5L EB
Heavy Duty Payload Package - 2880#
Max Tongue - 1400#
Wheelbase - 157"
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Old 03-14-2021, 11:50 PM   #2
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I have one and my ORV 21RWS is too much for it on steep grades, both up and down. That's why I'm getting an F350 (only $1K more than the 250). On the flat it does OK but only just. It tends to overheat going up and going down the Tow Mode sends it revving north of 5000 which is like fingernails on the chalk board! There are also times when I feel like the tail is wagging the dog and I don't like that feeling. It isn't all that often but more often than I want to put up with. It wouldn't be so bad back east but out west it just isn't doing it for me - too many big grades and I don't like going 40-45.
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Old 03-15-2021, 03:07 AM   #3
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There are only two half ton trucks that I recommend for towing heavy. They are the Nissan Titan XD and the Ford F-150 with HDPP.

The 2021 F-150 3.5 Eco-Boost is the most powerful engine you can get. The turbo is also good for going up a mountain.

You can watch a youtube video of TFL towing 9,200lbs with the Nissan Titan XD. It tows the 9,200lbs up the Ike Gauntlet in 8:21 or 8:27 (I forget) which is really good. Here is that video. In another video they use a Titan XD vs a regular Ford F-150 with the 3.5 Eco-Boost.

The Nissan was refreshed in 2020 with a 9 speed transmission and new interior with a bunch of new technology. But the 2021 F-150 is just as nice with a more powerful engine.

I would test drive the Nissan Titan XD to see how I would like it. Don't think you can find a F-150 with HDPP to test drive but I expected it to be like the Nissan XD.

https://youtu.be/Q7owNVPxWNM
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Old 03-15-2021, 09:21 AM   #4
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F150 3.5EB Crewcab HDPP vs F250 7.3 gas crewcab 6’9” bed.

1. You may find you’ll pay the same price or the F150 HDPP is more expensive due to limit inventory. But COVID has completely changed truck pricing.

2. 3.5EB is more fuel efficient than 7.3, good if you drive a lot unladen.

3. F150 HDPP is 2” longer than F250 CCSB in terms wheelbase, making it slightly harder to maneuver, but I doubt you’ll notice any difference.

4. F250 is heavier. So it will control your load better.

So if your truck double as a daily driver, F150 HDPP is good, otherwise I’d recommend F250. Many people think F250 is much bigger than F150, but in fact, HDPP makes the F150 longer, but a few inches lower than F250.
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Old 03-15-2021, 09:35 AM   #5
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There's only one reason to get the F150 HDPP over an F250 and thats the unladen mpg's.
Like mentioned the F150 CC 6.5 bed is almost the same length as the F250 CC SB.
If you get the tow mirrors added to the F150 then the width is exactly the same.
By the time you build out an F150 HDPP you're right there with an F250 which has most all the stuff you added as options as standard.
MPG's towing will be a wash with that big of a TT. I can't vouch for empty ride comfort. But guessing that there won't be that big of a difference.
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Old 03-15-2021, 09:40 AM   #6
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Living in the Northwest we see quite a few ORVís on the road. Not sure if Iíve ever seen one yet being towed with a 1/2 ton truck. Even the smallest 20fq models.

ORV has a large profile, and their tongue weights will be much higher than advertised.

Like I mentioned in your other thread, our neighbors towed a 21fqs with a F150 with the 3.5, and yes it had the power, but struggled with overheating on long grades. The following summer they got a F250 PS.

Just because the numbers work, doesnít mean it will be a safe towing experience.
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Old 03-15-2021, 09:48 AM   #7
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The dry weight of the 23DBS can be notably higher than what is listed on the web site based on how it is equipped from the factory. Based on the 9995 GVWR minus the 2726 cargo capacity from the payload sticker on our 23DBS the as-delivered dry weight is 7269. An initial CAT scale weight with full propane, dual Group 24 batteries and ~20gal fresh water was ~7400 with ~940 on the tongue.

ORV's are known for being on the heavy side, especially at the tongue. Even when we were initially looking at the Creekside models we never considered a 1/2 ton TV as we wanted the additional margins in capacity so that we would be prepared for whatever "unknowns" we might encounter along the way. We switched from the dual 12V Group 24 batteries to dual 6V GC2 and in order to help reduce the need to stop and replenish while traveling during the pandemic we now run with full fresh water and a lot more food and other supplies than previously. We also decided to change out the lighter weight metal bed cover for a Leer Hi-Rise canopy on the F-250. Last trip out I think the 23DBS was about ~8750 loaded with ~1200 on the tongue which is just under 14%.

If you are comfortable with the margins afforded by the F-150 HDPP on paper it does look like it could work.
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Old 03-15-2021, 09:53 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bneukam View Post
Living in the Northwest we see quite a few ORVís on the road. Not sure if Iíve ever seen one yet being towed with a 1/2 ton truck. Even the smallest 20fq models.

ORV has a large profile, and their tongue weights will be much higher than advertised.

Like I mentioned in your other thread, our neighbors towed a 21fqs with a F150 with the 3.5, and yes it had the power, but struggled with overheating on long grades. The following summer they got a F250 PS.

Just because the numbers work, doesnít mean it will be a safe towing experience.
X2


I really wanted to "upgrade" (downgrade? LOL) to an F150 for my 21RBS but after speaking with many people with a similar setup and doing my research for a couple months it was very apparent to me that an F150 would be maxed out for my trailer.......and my 21RBS is almost 3' shorter and 2,000 lbs lighter than a 23DBS.

Do yourself a favor; try to resist "confirmation bias" and you'll save yourself a bunch of grief and money.


2 cents,
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Old 03-15-2021, 10:15 AM   #9
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The HDPP F150 is a great option for a 10k lb trailer. On flat pavement, below 60mph and without any wind or semis passing. You'll be legal, but white knuckled the whole time.

If you spend $3500+ on a pro pride Hensley hitch setup, you MIGHT barely be ok. You also might realize you spent a whole lot of money trying to avoid the inevitable purchase of a Superduty.
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Old 03-15-2021, 12:09 PM   #10
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Also, OP mentions they'll never hit the max GVWR of the camper because they never travel with empty tanks.

A) You'll be surprised how much your minimal items weigh, especially after accumulating after a season or two.

B) what is the fresh tank capacity? At 8.x lb/gallon that's probably only a few hundred pounds. So 9500lb trailer without water. That's solid 3/4 ton territory.
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Old 03-15-2021, 04:21 PM   #11
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We have a Max Tow package 2014 F150 with the 3.5 Ecoboost. Fully loaded for our big trips we weigh in at 6500 lbs for the 7000lb GVW trailer. We normally travel with about 25 gals of water. I have never felt outgunned by the trailer in all of our western US and Canada adventures, but I drive it conservatively up and down grades.

Our tongue wt is about 1100 lbs with the water and our rear axle is right at its 4050 lb limit. Our hitch receiver is rated for 1130 lbs so we are right there also. The HDPP Fords improve on all those numbers and have been debating whether our next truck should be a SD or a HDPP F150. We are smaller stature folks so the deciding factor may be how easy/difficult it is for my wife to summit the SD cab when it comes time to pull the trigger.

All that being said, if I was moving up a full notch in trailer size(say 28 ft and 9k GVW) I would have to opt for a SD. I feel we are within the envelope for safety, comfort and controllability now, but I think we would be outside it with the OPs trailer even with the better HDPP numbers. I think at that point it becomes a question of the mass of the trailer vs the mass of the truck, at least in mountain driving, prairie weather scenarios. Also, keep in mind ORV's brochure empty weights have no relation to how much your empty trailer will weigh in your driveway. Oh wait, yes it does, just add 7-800 lbs.
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Old 03-15-2021, 07:15 PM   #12
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Can't tell from your post if you are considering both the truck and trailer or you own the truck and are considering the trailer.

Objectively, since you won't carry fresh water, loading 3,165 pounds of gear in a trailer with a 23 ft.box would be rare. The only way I can see doing it is to stack kegs of beer down the center aisle.

I did notice the trailer is a bunk house. Kids in the back seat will reduce your available payload. If you are also shopping for trucks, I would consider an HD rig.
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Old 03-15-2021, 08:09 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilD View Post
Can't tell from your post if you are considering both the truck and trailer or you own the truck and are considering the trailer.
Considering both. We really like the ORV rigs but our current 2017 Expedition EL isn't up to snuff. We thought the F150 with HDPP would be a good fit since all the numbers fit.

After doing more pricing and comparison it seems like the F250/350 ends up being essentially the same price (within a couple thousand) of the F150 with the HDPP. The main hesitation we had of going to the Super duty was fuel economy when not towing (the truck would be the daily driver/family car). The fuel economy doesn't seem THAT big of a difference. F150 rated to 16 city/24 highway/20 combined (I believe) while I'm guessing the 250/350 will be in the lower teens, so not a huge difference in fuel costs.
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Old 03-15-2021, 08:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradS7535 View Post
Considering both. We really like the ORV rigs but our current 2017 Expedition EL isn't up to snuff. We thought the F150 with HDPP would be a good fit since all the numbers fit.

After doing more pricing and comparison it seems like the F250/350 ends up being essentially the same price (within a couple thousand) of the F150 with the HDPP. The main hesitation we had of going to the Super duty was fuel economy when not towing (the truck would be the daily driver/family car). The fuel economy doesn't seem THAT big of a difference. F150 rated to 16 city/24 highway/20 combined (I believe) while I'm guessing the 250/350 will be in the lower teens, so not a huge difference in fuel costs.
I'm assuming that if you were to go Super Duty it would be a gasser and not a diesel. Real-world mpg on my '19 F-250 w/6.2L, 6-speed and 4.30 gears is around 11-12 city and 15.5 highway (best all highway tank is 16.8). How well (or poor depending on your viewpoint) you do with the city mpg has a lot to do with just how much start/stop there is and how flat the terrain is. We live up on a hill so most of the time I have to contend with that as well. If you hit every light red your going to be down around 11, maybe a tad below. Towing our 23DBS with average loaded weight ~8600 is around 8.5-9. From what I've seen the 7.3L w/10 speed is going to be fairly close to that - maybe 1mpg up on the city/highway numbers.
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