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Old 12-11-2019, 12:35 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by tuffr2 View Post
I think any diesel SRW truck will get close to 20mph on the highway at 70 mph on the level. SRW gas trucks will be around 16mpg on the level.
Should be close to that. Best MPG ever for mine was 16.44 MPG U.S. when I purchsed it in Texas and drove it back. 100% carefully calculated by hand vs "lie-o-meter" within 0.1MPG. Pretty accurate readout IMO.

Of course it was unladen, just my fat arse and a carry on piece of luggage, but it is a dually. I was driving 100 km/h (62 MPH) 90% of the way, highway 95% or so.

With newer, grippier tires I am not doing quite as well and rarely drive it empty for long.
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Old 12-11-2019, 02:09 PM   #30
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This is my take on what engine to purchase and the wrapper (vehicle) will follow. All three vehicle manufactures are producing a quality platform with a lot of creature comforts and bling. But what really matters to me is reliability of the engine!

From a SIX SIGMA standpoint a straight 6 design is a more reliable engine than a V8 engine. How so, less moving parts and the less complexity of the straight 6 platform. When calculating reliability you take into account the number of moving parts and the newness of the design. These all work against a V8 engine design, since there are more cylinders (2) and more moving parts do to the cylinder increase which can and will fail. All so, the split on a V8 engine block to provide 4 cylinders on one side with 4 on the other side of the block. This design doubles complexity of the engine design to accommodate the spilt of the cylinders. Such as a straight 8 is more reliable than a V8, less parts.

I know V8 engine designs have been around for sometime. But when calculating reliability numbers length of service of the design does not count for the complexity when calculating reliability.

I will take a straight 6 Cummins engine over any V8 diesel engine made today!

When I started looking at a diesel engine tow rig that was my first requirement reliability of the engine. With a less complex platform for servicing the engine and the components for that engine.

Just my take!
One thing you did not mention was inline and horizontally opposed engines are superior in n the harmonic balancing category.

Still need to compare the sum total of all parts, body, drivetrain, electrical and electronics..
Electronics can be horrible to diagnose, costly to repair and sometimes never repaired for very long. My Friend’s Father-in-law ended up getting a brand new Laramie because they were unable to figure out the electronic gremlins with his DEF tank.

I don’t believe that any of the Lifetime Warranties cover electronics.
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Old 12-11-2019, 09:23 PM   #31
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2020 Ford SuerDuty with 7.3L (gas) and 10 speed transmission should be shipping NOW, but they will be in short supply.





Newer diesel pickups are very complex. Maintenance is expensive. Fuel economy is down significant;t from the "old days". DEF is an additional expense In general, the reliability of the engines is good, but because of the complexity, repairs can be very expensive !



IMHO, a diesel engine should only be considered if you drive a large number of miles per year (50,000 or more) or you have a payload that exceed the capacity of the gasoline engine.



For brand, there is a reason that Ford is #1 in truck sales ! The Cummins engine in the Ram is very good, but it does NOT make up for a lot of short falls in the rest of the truck.


I don’t know what short comings you are talking about . I have a 14 Laramie and 4by about 50, thousand miles of towing a 14000 lb 5th wheel . No problems The interior is just as nice as any pick up in that price point . The Heavy duty was MOTOR Trends 2019 truck of the year. I guess they overlooked the shortcomings .
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Old 12-12-2019, 07:33 AM   #32
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2020 Ford SuerDuty with 7.3L (gas) and 10 speed transmission should be shipping NOW, but they will be in short supply.


Newer diesel pickups are very complex. Maintenance is expensive. Fuel economy is down significant;t from the "old days". DEF is an additional expense In general, the reliability of the engines is good, but because of the complexity, repairs can be very expensive !

IMHO, a diesel engine should only be considered if you drive a large number of miles per year (50,000 or more) or you have a payload that exceed the capacity of the gasoline engine.

For brand, there is a reason that Ford is #1 in truck sales ! The Cummins engine in the Ram is very good, but it does NOT make up for a lot of short falls in the rest of the truck.

I would love to know why, after seven year of selling trucks with the least reliable diesel engines.
That is what I call blind brand loyalty.
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:14 AM   #33
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Honestly, all three are pretty good trucks. They are ALL having issues with the emission systems. So just find the one that meets your towing requirements, fits your budget and the seat fits you rear end.

Ken
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Old 12-12-2019, 10:29 AM   #34
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dont be scared of a diesel

If you want to tow in the mountains get a diesel. The gas engines will not perform towing like a diesel. With 440 HP and 925 lb ft of torque none of the new gas motors can compare. It is not only being able to run up the hill it is the exhaust brake coming down. I was worried when I bought my 2017 F350 6.7 powerstroke. I have had diesels for 20 years now. 2 Ford 7.3 1997/2000 5.9 cummins 2006 and Ford 6.7 2017. I have 23400 miles on it. 90% towing my 13k lb 5th wheel. My Ford 6.7 fuel mileage is 16 empty and 10 pulling. My friend bought a 2018 Chevy 2500 4x4 6.0 gas and 4.10 gears. He averaged 12-14 empty and 6 to 8 pulling. After he moved up to 10.5 K 5th wheel he was very disapointed in his Chevy 2500. Traded it for a 2018 Chevy 2500 4x4 duramax. Could not be happier. 16-30 MPG and 10 pulling. Dont be scared of a new diesel. Keep clean fuel in it and do the maintenance. I change my oil at 5000 miles and fuel filters at 10000. You cant beat a diesel for towing.
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Old 12-12-2019, 12:23 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Zoomschwortz View Post
One thing you did not mention was inline and horizontally opposed engines are superior in n the harmonic balancing category.

Still need to compare the sum total of all parts, body, drivetrain, electrical and electronics..
Electronics can be horrible to diagnose, costly to repair and sometimes never repaired for very long. My Friend’s Father-in-law ended up getting a brand new Laramie because they were unable to figure out the electronic gremlins with his DEF tank.

I don’t believe that any of the Lifetime Warranties cover electronics.
I was only looking at the engine platform. The other items you mention are not part of the engine platform. The other items are the vehicle manufactures responsibility even though in the case of Cummins they do have a platform engineer that works with RAM.
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Old 12-12-2019, 12:35 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by theoldwizard View Post
2020 Ford SuerDuty with 7.3L (gas) and 10 speed transmission should be shipping NOW, but they will be in short supply.


Newer diesel pickups are very complex. Maintenance is expensive. Fuel economy is down significant;t from the "old days". DEF is an additional expense In general, the reliability of the engines is good, but because of the complexity, repairs can be very expensive !

IMHO, a diesel engine should only be considered if you drive a large number of miles per year (50,000 or more) or you have a payload that exceed the capacity of the gasoline engine.

For brand, there is a reason that Ford is #1 in truck sales ! The Cummins engine in the Ram is very good, but it does NOT make up for a lot of short falls in the rest of the truck.
I would go back and review your data on vehicle maintenance. I have tracked every cent that I have put into my truck over 12 years of ownership. My maintenance cost is $0.12/mile, for every item and repair from filters to tires. I now have close to 135K on the OD. My gas truck was around $0.10/mile and this truck was sold at 60,000 miles. I do have a modern diesel a 6.7L Cummins.

Now the reason why ford is number one in truck sales is they sell more half ton truck than anybody. Why? A very good but expensive grocery getter!
If you look at vehicle sales of the 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks they are even and slightly lower that RAM and GMC/Chevy total sales! The last time I checked.

When was the last time you drove a 2019/2020 Ram truck? Some people who have test drove them are stating they are way ahead of a ford 3/4 or 1 ton truck in ride comfort and operation!
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Old 12-12-2019, 01:28 PM   #37
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I just test drove a 2019 Ram 6.4 mega cab 2500. A 2020 Chevy 2500HD 6.6 gas and a 2019 Ford F-350 diesel plus my 2017 Ford F-250 6.2 gas trucks.

Now all the trucks are very nice. There is really nothing grossly wrong with any of these trucks.

Best driving is the 2020 Chevy 2500HD. The solid frame and 6.6 litre gas engine provide a nice driving dynamic.

Next would be my 2017 F-250 6.2 with it's solid feel and quiet interior. The ride is a tiny bit worse than the 2020 Chevy.

3rd would be the Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi mega cab. This truck was also solid and drive nice but I found it a bit clumsy.

4th the 2019 F-350 diesel. Simply the diesel engine is not as perfectly refined as any of the gasoline engines. It was a solid truck but after driving my refined F-250 the diesel engine is still bit harsh. These diesel engines are way more refined then they use to be but can not match the gas engines for smoothness.
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Old 12-13-2019, 09:41 AM   #38
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I can and have gotten 21-22 mpg running down a relatively flat freeway in all my Duramax trucks including my most recent 2019 DRW 3500 (not towing). Running around town I am lucky to get 14; it is usually closer to 13 and sometimes 12 depending on the hills and number of stops. That said, I absolutely love driving my diesel loaded or unloaded and I don't think the gasser version is even close when it comes to driving experience. That, of course, is my subjective and unscientific opinion.
With my 2019 GMC 3500 Duramax I have gotten 13 while towing (only towed with it once so far) and anywhere from 14 to 20 empty.
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Old 12-13-2019, 10:07 AM   #39
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My friend bought a 2018 Chevy 2500 4x4 6.0 gas and 4.10 gears. He averaged 12-14 empty and 6 to 8 pulling. After he moved up to 10.5 K 5th wheel he was very disapointed in his Chevy 2500. Traded it for a 2018 Chevy 2500 4x4 duramax. Could not be happier. 16-30 MPG and 10 pulling.
Was your friend trying to haul at 75 MPH speeds or something(with the gas engine)? Anything special on that 5th wheel, like excessive height or odd aerodynamic drag?

I'm asking because I basically have the same setup, older truck, haul 2000-2500 more lbs and 6 vs 4 wheels. I get better MPG. Only difference is axle gearing, mine are 3.73 vs your friend's 4.10. I usually haul at 62-68 MPH depending on terrain and speed limits.
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Old 12-13-2019, 11:50 AM   #40
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I would go back and review your data on vehicle maintenance. I have tracked every cent that I have put into my truck over 12 years of ownership. My maintenance cost is $0.12/mile, for every item and repair from filters to tires. I now have close to 135K on the OD. My gas truck was around $0.10/mile and this truck was sold at 60,000 miles. I do have a modern diesel a 6.7L Cummins.

Now the reason why ford is number one in truck sales is they sell more half ton truck than anybody. Why? A very good but expensive grocery getter!
If you look at vehicle sales of the 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks they are even and slightly lower that RAM and GMC/Chevy total sales! The last time I checked.

When was the last time you drove a 2019/2020 Ram truck? Some people who have test drove them are stating they are way ahead of a ford 3/4 or 1 ton truck in ride comfort and operation!
Please post the link that shows the number of sales in relation to 3/4 and 1 ton trucks by manufacturer.
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Old 12-13-2019, 12:36 PM   #41
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Sorry; it is not a free site you need to be a paying member to the site. Here is one site I use to belong to that had that information.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...cast-by-class/

The other was S.A.E. which I use to be a paying member. Now that I am retired I needed to cut back on my expenses.
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Old 12-13-2019, 02:13 PM   #42
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Pro/Cons of 2018-newer Ram vs Chev vs Ford diesel pickups?

I will be buying a 2018 or newer 3/4 or 1 ton pickup within 3 months. I have been waiting to see reviews on the 2020 7.3 F250 before making a decision, because it SHOULD do everything I need it to do when pulling my TT, but, if the fuel mileage on the new 7.3 is not to my liking, I will probably choose a diesel truck instead.

I am not a brand loyalist when it comes to Ford, Chevy or Ram and I have no doubt that each has it’s Pros and Cons, only, I have no idea what the pros and cons are for these new diesel trucks.

What can you tell me about reliability, ease of maintenance, repair costs, fuel efficiency, maintenance costs, etc?

Why is one brand better or worse than another brand?

I thank you for your time and consideration.
Ken
If you will have a co-pilot on most camping trips, make sure he/she has a chance to sit in the RAM before you seriously consider it. The transmission hump intruding into that space was a deal-breaker for us.

This is my first Diesel and so far I'm thrilled (approx 3,000 towing miles since Augus).

Best regards,
Chris
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