Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-18-2022, 11:36 AM   #29
Senior Member
 
tuffr2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Palm Coast Florida
Posts: 11,690
It sounds like 'move on' has done a lot of towing but I have to disagree in that a F-150 can probably tow 5,500lb. trailer at highway speeds.

I do agree with at 20 mph the F-150 could tow 10,000lbs.

Somewhere there should be a formula that says the faster you tow the more difficult it is to control a travel trailer.

And note - when Ford says a F-150 can tow a 14,000 lbs they mean a special F-150 with the HDPP option. And they mean a flatbed trailer with rebar on it. Something that will not catch much air/wind.
tuffr2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-19-2022, 09:20 AM   #30
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by carybosse View Post
I get the issues on the truck side for capacities, the issue I have is getting good numbers on the trailer side, that should be much easier to figure.

The other issue with truck capacities, is my trucks ability to tow a utility trailer with a farm tractor on it is much greater than my ability to tow a brick, otherwise called a travel trailer.

My Silverado is rated for almost 10K in tow capacity. I can probably easily tow a trailer loaded with lead bars and a total weight of 10K. No way in the world could I comfortable tow that same weight in the form of a travel trailer. Of course, I haven't even addressed tongue weights for these two hypothetical trailers.

When the truck manufacturers slap that label on the door frame, they do this with the idea you are hauling a load of lead bars. That is one reason why I think the cross-sectional area limitations I have seen on Jeep Wranglers and some SUVs makes more sense in some ways than simply a weight limitation.
The J2807 test specification and procedure specifies a 60 square ft frontal trailer for the heavier (such as 10,000#) trailers. It isn't a flat bed full of lead bars. It isn't a full 12ft tall by 8ft wide toy hauler either.

The test also includes interesting things. A 150# allotment for aftermarket hitch hardware, 150# for the driver and another 150# for a passenger. I assume this is how you get some of these weird scenarios where the towing capacity can't be achieved even at 10% tongue weight because of payload.
Adaycj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2022, 10:35 AM   #31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: DFW
Posts: 1,576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaycj View Post
The J2807 test specification and procedure specifies a 60 square ft frontal trailer for the heavier (such as 10,000#) trailers. It isn't a flat bed full of lead bars. It isn't a full 12ft tall by 8ft wide toy hauler either.

The test also includes interesting things. A 150# allotment for aftermarket hitch hardware, 150# for the driver and another 150# for a passenger. I assume this is how you get some of these weird scenarios where the towing capacity can't be achieved even at 10% tongue weight because of payload.
Interesting requirements. I guess a cargo trailer might meet the 60 sq ft spec, 6x10 foot. Larger than I would have expected, but as you noted, still not TT size. A typical TT has a cross sectional area of ~88 feet I would guess - 8 foot wide by 11 foot tall, since there is a gap under the trailer body.
__________________
2020 Chevy Silverado 1500
Forest River Wildwood XLite 263BHXL
carybosse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2022, 08:40 PM   #32
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by carybosse View Post
I understand all of this, but my understanding is that the tongue weight is without propane or batteries.

I don't know that it is this way for all TT, by my freshwater tank and galley gray water tank are located in front of, but close to axle (pivot point) so they should make minimal impact to the tongue weight.

My black water tank and shower gray water tanks are aft, I would think full they would impact the balance more than the other two tanks. Of course, the latter tanks would reduce tongue weight.

I don't normally carry fresh water, but this fall we may take a trip where hauling freshwater might be a wise idea.
Remember as well that any weight added to the bed of the truck aft of the axel is additional tongue weight!
GIjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2022, 08:44 PM   #33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer15015 View Post
Look on the "net" for a tongue weight scale.
E Trailer sells them too.
Then you will know how to balance yours.
We have a Curt better weigh module that I purchased for $99. It is within + or - 3% of the CAT scale weights. I use it every time we hook up for a trip to measure trailer GW and tongue weight.
GIjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2022, 09:07 PM   #34
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 195
Too much weight for that truck. It definitely will be a problem in the hills. All things considered the Gross Combined Weight is too much. Towing is not always the question. Stopping is the answer. While many may tow with these tolerances and claim it is ok. It is not a pleasure to drive.
rkbeasley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2022, 06:26 AM   #35
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcstrom View Post
I'm looking to purchase my first travel trailer. SO and I have narrowed down the choices to the ***Link Removed***.

This has all the main features we're looking for and I think should be towable by our truck okay. I'd like some sanity checking on this by others more knowledgeable and experienced in this area than myself.

Freedom Express 238BH:
UVW: 5314lb
Hitch weight: 694lb
Length: 25'9"

Truck:
2013 RAM 1500 4x4 Crew Cab 5.7L
Towing capacity: 6500lb
Payload: 1650lb
GAWR (rear): 3900
GAWR (front): 3900
Measured weight (rear): 2580lb
Measured weight (front): 3480lb

This was only with me in the truck and 3/4 tank of gas. SO and kids will add ~350lb total.

I am planning to get a 2 or 4 point weight distribution hitch. Unloaded TT is 81.75% of the max towing capacity.

The hitch weight was a bit concerning to me at first, but it seems like a properly adjust WD hitch should alleviate that by placing ~20% back onto front axles and ~20% onto trailer axles.

I would need to keep additional weight loaded onto trailer and truck bed to less than 1K lbs to stay under max towing capacity.

I live in a flat area, but am planning to drive to hilly areas (like SD and Wyoming/Yellowstone), so it'll see some decent grades.

This trailer is heavier than I originally set out to look at, but seems like we can keep within all the max weights with a bit of planning.

Am I making a stupid decision if I buy this and pull with my truck?
First, a WDH does NOT get you the weight back. That is a common misconception. AND, it will add at least 60 to 80 lbs to your tongue weight, but you gotta do it.

SO, overall, you are pushing it. But nice trailer. You can beat it by 10K if you go with something like a Catalina 221DBS though. AND, that's a low total capacity for the truck. I must admit that airbags improved the tow with the 1500 (RAM ONLY) and aren't too bad on price or install. Just remember, they do NOT get you any weight back either...

You will likely be within the specs but right on the edge. Been there done that ALWAY worrying about weight... But and So, you should be able to do it IF you keep you and your wife disciplined on "stuff." Oh, google Ram tow ratings by VIN. That will take you to the RAM site and you can put your VIN in and double check tow ratings.

But, having done something similar in the past for years in a couple of cases, your drives other than on the flat or even on the flat with wind will likely always involve a bit of stress. An ongoing, constant, low level of stress that will make a 350 to 400 mile day of driving a PITA. As I have said, you NEVER forget it is there and with kids and family????

I got tired of that always on stress and finally bit the bullet and went with a 2500 RAM 6.4 Hemi... Now, I know that may not be an answer for everyone but the difference is night and day. I went Hemi because I'm at half my payload and half my total capacity. And if you go with something like a Catalina I noted, put the 10K to a 2500 and then you will be set for the NEXT trailer... I'm serious...

So, you might consider a lighter trailer... OR, if you are young the stressors aren't as important as they are to us old farts. That is a nice travel trailer though for a family first timing... Forget those small 28 - 30 inch bunks...
Redfour5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2022, 08:23 AM   #36
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: DFW
Posts: 1,576
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIjoe View Post
Remember as well that any weight added to the bed of the truck aft of the axel is additional tongue weight!
Well, technically not tongue weight, but does hit the payload, no matter where it is loaded. The more weight behind the rear axle, the larger the impact on the rating for the rear axle.

With my popup, I could not stow much in the trailer, so the bed of my smaller Canyon was always packed. Of course, with the Canyon having a 1400 pound payload, that wasn't a major issue.

The difference in payload between my Canyon and my Silverado is not as much as you might imagine. Canyon was ~1400 pounds, Silverado is just over 1900 pounds. Tongue weight on Canyon was ~700 pounds if I remember correctly, while Silverado is 980 pounds.

With my current TT, a lot more goes in the trailer, actually, a lot of of it stays in the trailer year round. My Silverado bed is not loaded as much typically as the Canyon bed was.
__________________
2020 Chevy Silverado 1500
Forest River Wildwood XLite 263BHXL
carybosse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2022, 09:40 AM   #37
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by carybosse View Post
Well, technically not tongue weight, but does hit the payload, no matter where it is loaded. The more weight behind the rear axle, the larger the impact on the rating for the rear axle.

With my popup, I could not stow much in the trailer, so the bed of my smaller Canyon was always packed. Of course, with the Canyon having a 1400 pound payload, that wasn't a major issue.

The difference in payload between my Canyon and my Silverado is not as much as you might imagine. Canyon was ~1400 pounds, Silverado is just over 1900 pounds. Tongue weight on Canyon was ~700 pounds if I remember correctly, while Silverado is 980 pounds.

With my current TT, a lot more goes in the trailer, actually, a lot of of it stays in the trailer year round. My Silverado bed is not loaded as much typically as the Canyon bed was.
Aft of the axel is considered tongue weight no matter how one characterizes it!
GIjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2022, 10:22 AM   #38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Kelowna, B.C. Canada
Posts: 1,992
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIjoe View Post
Aft of the axel is considered tongue weight no matter how one characterizes it!
never heard that one before.....



Dave
__________________
2022 Outdoors RV 25RDS, 2022 F350 dually, 6.7PSD, 10 spd, 3.55's
Dave Pelletier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2022, 12:59 PM   #39
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 338
Sounds to me like you have the numbers figured out correctly.
Being "at" or "near" your trucks capacity
Is never a good thing. It will wear out the lil 1/2 ton in no time..it will be a white knuckle experience unpleasant while driving. A danger to your family.. Dont trust an rv or truck sakesmam...they are trying to sell you on the purchase.. the forums are full of opinions..
I know you dont want to buy a new
More capable truck.. But i think in regards to your families safety it may be in your best interest...truly if you think this purchase of a camper is your last then your probably not
Being realistic...we all here have been through this.. if you get a 1 ton you wont have to buy another truck( as in trade your 3/4 ton because the next camper you buy is too big.)
Buy once cry once...
varmonter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2022, 05:11 AM   #40
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Posts: 490
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIjoe View Post
Aft of the axel is considered tongue weight no matter how one characterizes it!
Not.
CamperLifer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2022, 05:43 AM   #41
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: Ontario
Posts: 145
I looked up the definition of tongue weight:

Tongue weight is the downwards force from the tongue of the trailer to your hitch. In other words, it's the amount of your loaded trailer weight that sits behind the rear axle of your vehicle.
mto502 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2022, 09:47 AM   #42
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by mto502 View Post
I looked up the definition of tongue weight:

Tongue weight is the downwards force from the tongue of the trailer to your hitch. In other words, it's the amount of your loaded trailer weight that sits behind the rear axle of your vehicle.
Roger that!
GIjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
advice



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I need a sanity check on this USMCRET Technology: Internet, TV, Satellite, Cell Phones, etc. 10 07-26-2021 05:20 PM
Purchasing our first RV - all advice and expertise needed rbilramz Class C Motorhome Discussions 25 06-08-2020 02:37 PM
Hello iRV2 I need some advice on purchasing new rig re101 Class A Motorhome Discussions 15 02-12-2017 06:45 AM
Purchasing a new Fifth Wheel or Toy Hauler and need Advice mark42h iRV2.com General Discussion 2 05-21-2015 10:03 PM
Sanity Check, need a second, third, forth pair of eyes to double check brocja01 Toads and Motorhome Related Towing 6 11-04-2014 07:20 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.