Receiver hitch weight & tongue weight

[1010]

Originally Posted by myredracer

Nice trailer! Jealous... Nice WDH too.

I see the factory dry tongue weight is listed as 1080 lbs. Hard to tell where it will actually end up. I'm guessing possibly 1250 - 1400 lbs. Again, just a guess and every make and model can vary a little or a lot. May also be affected by any factory options it has.

Another thing to think about is that if you were to travel with full holding tanks, that would be over 1500 lbs of liquid in total. Not that you would ever have them completely full, but it's possible to have a LOT of additional wt. there. It looks like that would you over the GVWR rating. Not good in itself, but it could increase your tongue weight by maybe another 150 - 250 lbs, but depends on where the tanks are located.

The WDH engaged or not will not change the tongue wt. number used for sizing the bars. I've read someone here say that when the WDH is properly adjusted, you'll end up with approx. 25% of the tongue wt. transferred to the steer axle, 50% to the drive axle and 25% to the trailer axles. The vertical tongue wt. from the trailer remains the same, but it gets shifted between axles. There's a really good diagram out there that explains this, but I don't know where to find it.

You need to watch that your actual tongue weight is not more than hitch bar rating. Otherwise you may not be able to "wind up" the bars enough when engaged to transfer weight onto the steer axles. Plus, with bars that are near or over the rating, you can end up with too much bounce in the trailer (BTDT).

It sounds like you might be borderline on the bar size but you won't know until you weigh the trailer. Same with the receiver. I don't want to be the one that says you're definitely okay, but it *seems* like you should be fine to tow the trailer home or to a scale without anything loaded into it. I'm thinking you will end up with a class V receiver for certain tho.

It sounds like you are probably good on the truck payload capacity, but again, going to a scale will give you the knowledge and peace of mind.

BTW, when you weigh the TT, you should have it loaded, packed and ready as you would for a camping trip. This additional wt. can add in the range of 1,000 - 1,500 lbs.

Please post your results from going to a scale!

Thanks, we think the trailer is nice, but the weight has caused some concerns. I am interested in the weight transfer percentages you mention, I will try to locate that info. I always avoid carrying any liquid in the holding tanks if possible, go so far to empty them even if a one night stay. When we dry camp I fill my fresh water at the campground or if no water at site I fill up at the last available water, return trip, empty fresh water and dump tanks as soon as I can.

I am having a Class V hitch receiver (2") put on Thurs., as far as the bars go, I have left a message to the dealer regarding them, in any case I am going to head out this weekend, I may empty the front pass thru and put most of it in the truck bed. I contacted Husky and their tech person said the weight of the trailer is normally the point that dictates what spring bars are used, but with the tongue weight being that close (and that front storage compartment) to the 1,200 lb max, she seemed a bit surprised the dealer did not order the 1,400 lb bars. I will not be able to get weighed until I return home in 10 weeks, then I will know if the spring bars are too light, I am thinking I will need to go to the 1,400 lb bars. I do not want to be "border line" when I am towing.

[1010]

Originally Posted by NFlcamper

What I saw, the floor plan shows a fairly well balanced trailer. Bet the tongue weight doesn't vary much dry vs. loaded, and you can move stuff around to balance the trailer so you don't go heavy on the tongue. Just don't go too light. That is probably worse than tongue heavy.

I hope it is, the only outside storage is the front pass through, which has a lot of space so that is going to add weight to the front. There is a rear slide out cargo tray with a max load of 250 lbs, but as built, no way.

[1010]

Originally Posted by Cumminsfan

I agree with smokey, just upgrade the receiver. No worries and possibly a better tow as the new receiver will be structurally stronger with less flexing.
Assuming the TT comes near the advertised dry weight of 8250lb and you add 1000lbs for gear, that puts you at 9250lbs. TW will be between 10-15% so figure 12.5% for estimating purposes @1156lbs.
Looking at the floor plan most of the storage is either over the axles or in the front. Virtually nothing in the rear. I don't see how you could not load 2-300lbs in the front with the bedroom slide outs and of course the front cargo area.
Remember your WD hitch adds near 100lbs by it's self. That right their puts the dry TW at 1180lbs, only 70lbs less than the rating.

As I posted earlier, I am having a class V receiver hitch installed, as you said, I think the spring bars will work, but I think they will be so close to max or a bit above that 1,400 lbs spring bars are the way to go. When I return home I will load up the truck and trailer and take them to the scales.

[1010]

Originally Posted by SmokeyWren

What myredracer said. The WD hitch does not change the tongue weight, it just distributes the tongue weight to various axles of the rig.

You can determine the approximate tongue weight by making two passes over the CAT scale - one with the trailer tied on without the WD bars engaged, and one without the trailer. The difference in the combined weight on the two truck axles, AKA the truck gross vehicle weight (GVW), is the tongue weight.

Or you can determine exact tongue weight by using a Sherline tongue weight scale. If you are going to be towing "bumper pull" trailers more than once in a blue moon, then you need to invest in a Sherline Tongue Weight scale anyway. Here's the one I have:
Sherline Trailer Tongue Weight Scale - 2,000-lb Capacity Sherline Tools 5780

I looked at the Sherline Trailer Tongue Weight scale a while back, guess I will take another look, thanks for all the information and insight.

[1010]

Originally Posted by Cumminsfan

I agree with smokey, just upgrade the receiver. No worries and possibly a better tow as the new receiver will be structurally stronger with less flexing.
Assuming the TT comes near the advertised dry weight of 8250lb and you add 1000lbs for gear, that puts you at 9250lbs. TW will be between 10-15% so figure 12.5% for estimating purposes @1156lbs.
Looking at the floor plan most of the storage is either over the axles or in the front. Virtually nothing in the rear. I don't see how you could not load 2-300lbs in the front with the bedroom slide outs and of course the front cargo area.
Remember your WD hitch adds near 100lbs by it's self. That right their puts the dry TW at 1180lbs, only 70lbs less than the rating.

I put on a class V hitch receiver. After loading the truck and trailer I hooked up and found the rear end of the truck to be sagging as was the front of the trailer, not bad but not right. The front end of the truck was a little light, the combo handled well even in strong cross winds that finally ran me of the interstate. Prior to taking the combo to the dealer I will get the weights, should I have the TV & trailer fully loaded when I take it in?

[NFlcamper]

I hope you are using a Weight Distribution Hitch (WDH) in addition to the class IV hitch. Now your hitch can handle the weight, but it still needs distribution off the rear axle and on the trailer axles and truck front axle. If I do not have anything in the garage area of my toyhauler, my tongue weight is 1,240 lbs. The tongue weight gets less with toy weight above and behind the axles. Even when I had my 1500 GMC I could adjust the WDH and get everything leveled. If you have a WDH, it may need adjustment to get everything level.

And yes, load up as though you were traveling to get accurate weights and adjustments.

[1010]

Originally Posted by NFlcamper

I hope you are using a Weight Distribution Hitch (WDH) in addition to the class IV hitch. Now your hitch can handle the weight, but it still needs distribution off the rear axle and on the trailer axles and truck front axle. If I do not have anything in the garage area of my toyhauler, my tongue weight is 1,240 lbs. The tongue weight gets less with toy weight above and behind the axles. Even when I had my 1500 GMC I could adjust the WDH and get everything leveled. If you have a WDH, it may need adjustment to get everything level.

And yes, load up as though you were traveling to get accurate weights and adjustments.

Yes it is a WDH, the bars are rated up to 1200 lbs, I think the 1400 lb bars would be better as well as adjusting the hitch.

Thanks for your help

[Cumminsfan]

Originally Posted by 1010

I put on a class V hitch receiver. After loading the truck and trailer I hooked up and found the rear end of the truck to be sagging as was the front of the trailer, not bad but not right. The front end of the truck was a little light, the combo handled well even in strong cross winds that finally ran me of the interstate. Prior to taking the combo to the dealer I will get the weights, should I have the TV & trailer fully loaded when I take it in?

Are you using fender well measurements on the front to set up your WD?

[1010]

Originally Posted by Cumminsfan

Are you using fender well measurements on the front to set up your WD?

The hitch was set up by the dealer when we bought the trailer, the truck had no load, the trailer, propane, batteries, 10 gallons of water in the heater & maybe a few more in the holding tanks. I didn't take any measurements when everything was loaded, I am going to have the dealer re-adjust the hitch.

[1010]

We have returned from our trip & I went to a CAT scale to weigh the F250 & the Blackstone 280RLSB. I did not weigh the trailer as the scales were busy with commercial rigs and I did not want to make someone wait as long as it would take me to unhook & hookup.
I must be doing something wrong with Smokeywren's method of determining the trailer's tongue weight (went on scale hooked up with the WD bars unhooked & the TV solo) I came up with 1,940 lbs. does this # sound right? The WD bars are rated up to 1,200 lbs, the highest weight rated bars from Husky are 1400 lbs., the receiver is rated to 1,500 lbs. I must have done/figured wrong here, if not how can I safely tow the trailer?
Full propane tanks & the two six volt batteries add approx 100 lbs, so I am at 1,180 lbs tongue weight, which leaves maybe 800 lbs of stuff loaded in the trailer. Outside storage is in the front, maybe a couple of hundred lbs, now I am pretty much maxed out on the 1400 lb bars. With this trailer, almost all storage is in front of the axles, so that would put more weight on the tongue, or just about the entire load of the trailer, which could be 900 lbs or more.
I took the rig to the local guru of hitches and they determined the ball height of 25 1/2"s should be at 29". I purchased a new shank that brought the ball up to 29"s. We were unable to level the trailer out, as adjusting the bars up made it impossible to put the bars on the trailer. They thought heavier bars may help, saying they have never seen this before. I have much more faith in these guys then the dealer, maybe the trailer is too heavy for the f25.
I am taking the trailer in this month to the dealer, see what they can do. Appreciate any help.

[wandering1]

A lot of opinions, dont rely on them, go to a hitch store and ask.

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by 1010

I must be doing something wrong with Smokeywren's method of determining the trailer's tongue weight (went on scale hooked up with the WD bars unhooked & the TV solo) I came up with 1,940 lbs. does this # sound right?

Your Blackstone 280RLSB has

GVWR 10,160
Dry trailer wt 8250
Dry hitch wt 1080
dry hitch wt % = 13.1%

13.1% of GVWR is 1,331. But with front pass thru, you may have 15% of GVWR for wet and loaded hitch weight, or 1,524 max hitch weight. So 1940 pounds of hitch weight is not reasonable.

You probably still have the scale tickets, so double-check your method.

1. Wet and loaded trailer tied onto the TV, but WD bars not hooked up. You want the combined weight on the two axles of the TV. (Ignore the weight on the trailer axles for now.)

2. Without the trailer, weigh the TV again. And again, you want the combined weight on the two axles of the TV.

3. Subtract the combined weight you got in step 2 from the combined weight you got in step 1. The answer is your hitch weight (tongue weight) of the wet and loaded trailer.

4. Go back to step 1 and get the weight on the trailer axles. Add hitch weight from step 3 above, and that is the GVW of your wet and loaded trailer. Compare the weight on the trailer axles to the combined GAWR of the trailer axles.

[1010]

Originally Posted by wandering1

A lot of opinions, dont rely on them, go to a hitch store and ask.

I did, these guys are experts at what they do.

[1010]

Originally Posted by SmokeyWren

Your Blackstone 280RLSB has

GVWR 10,160
Dry trailer wt 8250
Dry hitch wt 1080
dry hitch wt % = 13.1%

13.1% of GVWR is 1,331. But with front pass thru, you may have 15% of GVWR for wet and loaded hitch weight, or 1,524 max hitch weight. So 1940 pounds of hitch weight is not reasonable.

You probably still have the scale tickets, so double-check your method.

1. Wet and loaded trailer tied onto the TV, but WD bars not hooked up. You want the combined weight on the two axles of the TV. (Ignore the weight on the trailer axles for now.)

2. Without the trailer, weigh the TV again. And again, you want the combined weight on the two axles of the TV.

3. Subtract the combined weight you got in step 2 from the combined weight you got in step 1. The answer is your hitch weight (tongue weight) of the wet and loaded trailer.

4. Go back to step 1 and get the weight on the trailer axles. Add hitch weight from step 3 above, and that is the GVW of your wet and loaded trailer. Compare the weight on the trailer axles to the combined GAWR of the trailer axles.

The advertised GVRW is 10,300, not that it makes that much difference. I am far from being good in math but I went over my figures again and came up with the same numbers. Step 4, using my figures puts the trailer at 10,040 lbs, the TV weighs 8,140 lbs, (minus a 200 lb passenger) add them for a total of 18,180 lbs. The total weight of TV & trailer with WD hooked up was 18,120 lbs. The axels are rated at 5200 lbs. The 15% tongue weight of 1,524 lbs is 24 lbs over the max receiver weight of 1,500 lbs, not to mention the max 1,400 lb bars. I do not think I have put nearly 1,800 lbs in the trailer. When I came up with a tongue weight of 1,940 lbs I said that is not reasonable, but that is the figures I have. I am taking the trailer in for service on the 26th, I will get some answers.