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Old 07-24-2017, 10:47 AM   #1
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Roadmaster Active Suspension

I have been investigating the Firestone Sport Rite to level the ride of my van until today.... I visited a local trailer dealer and there I saw the Roadmaster Active Suspension. I'm impressed.

I have three weeks to install one of these systems on my van before I embark on a 2800 mile trip. So I need to hear some testimonies from those who have the RAS installed, especially if you've installed the RAS on a Ford E-350 Super Duty Extended Wagon.

Thanks in advance...
George
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Old 07-24-2017, 11:49 AM   #2
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Reach out to Pappystoy on this forum, he has them on his '95 E-350 extended wagon.

A few other discussions here: http://www.irv2.com/forums/f45/roadm...on-324045.html

Like either of the airbags, they won't increase payload, just how you manage what you have. We put them on a '93 Dakota, they did just what they were supposed to do once set correctly, If they still advertise an MPG claim, you know that's bogus, but the product does work.

I bought the Firestone air bags, because of the ease of adjustability empty vs. towing, and the deal was great at the time.
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Old 07-24-2017, 01:06 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Normal_Dave View Post
...Like either of the airbags, they won't increase payload, just how you manage what you have...
Thanks Dave, Here's the stats...

According to the 2010 Ford Econoline Towing Selector, my van is GCWR = 13,000# and MLTW = 6300# (Maximum Loaded Trailer Weight)

The van's GVWR = 9100#
The trailer's GVWR = 5762#

According to NADA Guides, the curb weight of my van is 5695# (lets round that to 5700#)

Given my GCWR and curbweight, I have calculated that my payload can be as high as 3400#. Considering that I will begin the trip with one passenger and end the trip with none, I will probably load 2000# - 2300# people, product, instruments, amplification equipment, and luggage inside the van.

In the past, my trailer loaded without water weighs in at roughly 4600# - 5000# on the tandems.

So lets add up some numbers....
Curb weight 5700#
Payload 2300#
Trailer 5000#
COMBINATION TOTAL 13,000#

When I have the van and trailer loaded for my upcoming trip, I will weigh the combination, then the van alone, and then calculate my loaded trailer weight. the van with trailer. All the while hoping for under 13,000#


-------------------------------------------

So my purpose in exploring the airbags and now the RAS is to correct the sagging hitch. On a previous trip where I was loaded similarly, I adjusted the angle of the WD head to allow more pull on the bars. This caused the hitch pin to wear the receiver's 5/8" round hole into an oval hole.

So this time around to avoid damaging a new Ford Class III receiver hitch, I just want to support and level the rear of the van. Then the WDH can do its job more efficiently.

Does that sound reasonable?
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Old 07-24-2017, 03:14 PM   #4
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I don't think the hitch pin issue was caused by the WD hitch. Many thousands of those hitches are in use every day and only a very small percentage have the problem you described with the pin wallowing the hole. I could be wrong but I thought that was more a factor of how much play the stinger had in the receiver.

In any case you need to get your van weighed first because you are basing all of this on the published curb weight from a brochure. I guarantee yours will weigh more giving you less payload than you think you have.

The other issue is that you are starting out with the absolute max load leaving no safety margin or room for anything you realize you need after being on the road for a bit.

Stop looking at advertised brochures, your 2011 van has a loading sticker on the drivers door sill that tells you all the numbers you need. GCvWR of your particular van, not one in a brochure that may not be exactly like yours. Same for axle weights and cargo capacity.
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Old 07-24-2017, 04:15 PM   #5
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Roadmaster Active Suspension

Thanks alot for the reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keymastr View Post
I could be wrong but I thought that [the hitch pin issue] was more a factor of how much play the stinger had in the receiver.
I have considered that. The problem that I have with this idea is that I've used the same Reese WDH head/shank since 2000 with 5 different vans, 5 different receivers. The first time that I had this problem was the first time that I had an extended van and attempted to level the rig with the WDH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keymastr View Post
In any case you need to get your van weighed first because you are basing all of this on the published curb weight from a brochure. I guarantee yours will weigh more giving you less payload than you think you have.
Yea, I think you're right. My city has a free scale at the city dump. I think I'll take a trash bag down tomorrow morning and weigh the van.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keymastr View Post
The other issue is that you are starting out with the absolute max load leaving no safety margin or room for anything you realize you need after being on the road for a bit.
Please, I'm only using the numbers for comparison. Believe me, I'm happy that I'm not over 13,000# in my calculations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keymastr View Post
Stop looking at advertised brochures, your 2011 van has a loading sticker on the drivers door sill that tells you all the numbers you need. GCvWR of your particular van, not one in a brochure that may not be exactly like yours. Same for axle weights and cargo capacity.
As a matter of fact, my van does not have such a sticker. So I have to depend on the accuracy of other information sources.

-----------------------------------------

The great debate on the topic on capacity and weight has always been a hot bed for debate, with many heated arguments as of late. I know this because 13 years ago, I was an iRV2 moderator who made made mistakes and enemies for stating my opinions on safety, and conservative calculation of GCWR-GVWR=MLTW. Many disasgreed with me, but I still believe that I know the correct way to match my equipment. But wait sir, that is not the purpose of my post. Please bear with me as I redirect...

I am seeking opinions from a specific audience: Folks who have installed the Roadmaster Active Suspension on 1.) Ford E-350 SuperDuty Extended Wagons, or else 2.) Anybody else who has installed the RAS and has their pros and cons on the product.

Thank you,
George
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Old 07-24-2017, 09:09 PM   #6
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Well, keep looking, that sticker is somewhere on the vehicle. Could be on the glove box door or other door sill of the van. Could even be under the hood but I doubt it. Was the van wrecked and painted? That might explain the absence of the loading sticker.

Here is that Ford vin lookup site which will give the build sheet and shows the options and sometimes the gross weight rating. just click on "vehicles" and put your vin in the red box. https://www.etis.ford.com/vehicleReg...vNT.fcvas1901c
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Old 07-25-2017, 08:46 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keymastr View Post
Well, keep looking, that sticker is somewhere on the vehicle. Could be on the glove box door or other door sill of the van. Could even be under the hood but I doubt it. Was the van wrecked and painted? That might explain the absence of the loading sticker.

Here is that Ford vin lookup site which will give the build sheet and shows the options and sometimes the gross weight rating. just click on "vehicles" and put your vin in the red box. https://www.etis.ford.com/vehicleReg...vNT.fcvas1901c
Thank you for the link. It did not reveal information relevant to my towing needs.

I did search for stickers. My van has three:
1.) Incomplete Vehicle which states 9100# GVWR, front GAWR and rear GAWR
2.) Tire Loading Information which states "The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 9100#
3.) Altered Certification Label which restates GVWR and GAWR

There is no curb weight or payload listed on any of the three labels.
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Old 07-25-2017, 08:51 AM   #8
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I did it !!!

I ordered my upgrades!

I placed my order for the Roadmaster Active Suspension kit # 2613-E which is the specific kit for my 2010 Ford E-350 Superduty Extended Passenger Van. The best price was found on eBay through a vendor in Wilmington NC, Rex & Sons RV.

Next I placed my order for new Bilstein Shocks. The best price was found at SummitRacing.com

Since the RAS requires loosening the Ubolts, I have scheduled time with a mechanic on Saturday to Git 'er Done!
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Old 07-25-2017, 09:04 AM   #9
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Hi George,

Your etis report should have given you both engine size and gear ratio. You have a 2010 E-series extended wagon with few other choices that affect payload once you get past the above. Everthing else you need to know should be here on page 2:
https://www.ford.com/resources/ford/...ERIESsep09.pdf

I'm guessing yours must be an aftermarket conversion van, if so the converter modifications affect the factory weight ratings, (due to added weight of their stuff) and their modified sticker would rule the day, and often they don't have good information, so you are left with using a combo of the factory information and real world scaled weights.

Sounds like you are on the right track, I think I could do a lot with your engine and rear gear ratio information, even if it's a conversion van.
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Old 07-25-2017, 11:27 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Normal_Dave View Post
Hi George,

Your etis report should have given you both engine size and gear ratio. You have a 2010 E-series extended wagon with few other choices that affect payload once you get past the above. Everthing else you need to know should be here on page 2:
https://www.ford.com/resources/ford/...ERIESsep09.pdf

I'm guessing yours must be an aftermarket conversion van, if so the converter modifications affect the factory weight ratings, (due to added weight of their stuff) and their modified sticker would rule the day, and often they don't have good information, so you are left with using a combo of the factory information and real world scaled weights.

Sounds like you are on the right track, I think I could do a lot with your engine and rear gear ratio information, even if it's a conversion van.
Dave,
You are right. The ETIS report gave me the engine, transmission and differential ratio. As did the towing guide.

You are right again. My van was built as an incomplete window van. The seating was completed by a 3rd party converter who produces commuter vans. Mine was produced with 14 bucket seats (no bench seats).... 2 in the front, then four rows of three in the rear.

Here are drivetrain specs you asked for:
Engine 5.4L
Transmission: Automatic 4R75E
Axle Ratio / Differential: 3.73:1

Yes the link you provided to the trailer towing selector told me:
GCWR: 13,000#
MLTW: 6300#

My door sticker states:
GVWR: 9100#

So putting it all together.....
IF my van scales 9100, I can tow a maximum 3900# loaded trailer
IF my trailer scales at it's GVWR 5000#, my van should not scale more than 8000# loaded.
Under no circumstances, should I ever exceed the GCWR 13,000#, or any of the individual axle or tire weight ratings.
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Old 07-25-2017, 12:19 PM   #11
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Hey George, apologies for posting the Ford towing selector right after you already did...(the mind is a terrible thing...) I somehow missed your post yesterday that had all your data.

You've already got most of what you need to know except the actual weights. Since your van was converted for commuting use, and you have the 8 passenger setup, I'd use the factory guide for the E-350 extended 11 passenger with your motor and gear, without concern for changes made by the converter. I was concerned that it might be a fully dressed conversion with lots of heavy add-ons. Sounds as if you could be within the limits. I can't find it but somewhere along the line, I thought the E-350 Wagons were rated based on a typical passenger load, unlike the other manufacturers?

Back to the subject at hand, I'm disappointed I didn't think of the Roadmaster in your original post. It is a wonderful tool, and I would argue much easier to install on the E-350 since you don't have to drill the frame.

With my brother's '93 Dakota Club cab, 318 V-8, he had the tow capacity, but the Roadmaster was a great add-on. He routinely hauled his '70 Firebird with a 455 on a steel decked open car trailer, and that Firebird was much heavier than you would think. Went from Georgia to Dayton, OH a couple of times covering Jellico Pass on I-75. That little truck did quite well, and as advertised, the Roadmaster doesn't come into play until you load the springs. It really works well in cornering and lane changes too, which your van will appreciate. We tweaked our setting a little higher for car trailer duty, but driving empty was quite smooth. With the Firestone airbags, you'd have to air down to get a "normal" empty ride.

I can't help but still wonder, if you've towed with this setup and the van loaded for let's say 5-6 years, are the factory springs still up to snuff? Our vans really make them work, even sitting still, and even more loaded, and towing on top of that. Same for the WD hitch. I'd be curious about real front to rear axle loading with your entire combo. I like Smokey Wren's WD hitch setup guide too, plain and simple.

With all that said, I'm amazed to discover changing from 3.73 to 4.10 does nothing for the max trailer weight according to Ford, but in reality, I'll bet you'll appreciate the difference. That 5.4L makes it's power and torque at higher rpms, as you already know.

5.4L 255 hp V8 Flex Fuel Vehicle
Power 255 hp @ 4,500 RPM Torque 350 lb-ft @ 2,500 RPM

You've got the makings of a fine tow rig, just thinking a little more tweaking, and wondering if something is missing in the WD setup.

Best,

David
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Old 07-25-2017, 12:35 PM   #12
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3.73 to 4.10 is not much change. I would go to 4.30 to make it worth the cost.
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Old 07-25-2017, 12:42 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Normal_Dave View Post
With all that said, I'm amazed to discover changing from 3.73 to 4.10 does nothing for the max trailer weight according to Ford, but in reality, I'll bet you'll appreciate the difference. That 5.4L makes it's power and torque at higher rpms, as you already know.
Dave, I'm sure that there would be an improvement in pulling hills. But I'm afraid that it would also drink more dinosaurs too. I think that 255HP and 350 foot pounds is sufficient, driven conservatively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Normal_Dave View Post
You've got the makings of a fine tow rig, just thinking a little more tweaking, and wondering if something is missing in the WD setup.
Dave, I've wondered the same. I'm going to send this in a PM
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Old 07-25-2017, 12:54 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keymastr View Post
3.73 to 4.10 is not much change. I would go to 4.30 to make it worth the cost.
I tend to agree with you on this statement. With the OD transmission, my final drive is 3.17 currently with the 3.73, and would be 3.48 with a 4.10, and 3.65 with a 4.30. I'm just not sure that the towing advantage to the lower gear choices will offset the loss of economy when not towing. I'm pretty sure that my 3.73 with moderate towing speeds is a good compromise for me.
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