some assistance with numbers, and thoughts

[ihbond]

LEgality: Is this doable.
TRAVEL TRAILER:
Full Feature Dry Weight - Lbs. 6650
Maximum Trailer Weight - Lbs. 9995
Dry Hitch Weight (approx. Lbs.) 795
-----Figure add 120# for propane and battereis

TRUCK: 2018 v6 twin turbo 3.5, SCREW, Shrt Bd, regular tow pkg
TOW: 10,700
Sticker: Combined Weight of occupants and cargo never exceed 1841 lbs
----Me, wife, dog about 450#
Front GAWR: 3450
REAR GAWR: 3800
GVWR: 7000

so I am new to this and just figuring out numbers:
.....795# Dry Hitch weight
.....120# Propane & Batteries
.....450# Occupants
.....300# Misc, crap (Dog blanket, WDH, etc
TOTAL#= 1665
.....1665# TOTAL
.....1841# max capacity
-
.....= 176 pounds under max capaacity

Did i calculate correctly folks ?
Would a WDH, take some of the pounds off the vehicle to share with the TT ?

Subjective: anyone have a similar setup and tow , we live in the Pacific Northwest and there are some steep grades, etc etc...is this doable, are we pushing it ? any things we can do mechanically to the truck to increase our success ?

Thanks
Ian

[MapleKing]

I don't think that the dry hitch weigh includes anything in the trailer like water and anything you add to the trailer. About 15% of the combined weight of all that would need to be added to the hitch weight.

[ihbond]

Originally Posted by MapleKing

I don't think that the dry hitch weigh includes anything in the trailer like water and anything you add to the trailer. About 15% of the combined weight of all that would need to be added to the hitch weight.

ahhh, ok, understood...thanks for the knowledge

so even if i had 100 more lbs (on top of the misc, that i included)...i would still be in the legal limits..

[Dropthejacks]

It isn't a "legal limit" you're fighting with. No one is going to weigh you and your rig and start handing out tickets because you are over the trucks GCVWR limits. Where you are messing up at is thinking you will comfortably be towing a 10K lb TT with a truck rated at 10700. Always figure your RV will be loaded to the max weight. At that the tongue weight already be pushing your truck's payload capacity, and you haven't put your stuff in the truck yet. The WD is going to shift more of the hitch weight forward onto your truck's front axle so the front wheels will remain on the ground and the headlights won't be aimed at the trees. And once you get that load moving you then have to control it and stop it, which will tax a 150/1500 pick-up badly. Sorry, you are looking at a TT that needs to be hooked to a 250/2500. Forget the "legal" aspect, if you take that rig on the highway and injure or kill someone because you were overloaded and lost control, can you live with that? You'll need to find a TT that maxs out around 8500, then you'll be closer to where you should be with that truck.

[ihbond]

Originally Posted by Dropthejacks

It isn't a "legal limit" you're fighting with. No one is going to weigh you and your rig and start handing out tickets because you are over the trucks GCVWR limits. Where you are messing up at is thinking you will comfortably be towing a 10K lb TT with a truck rated at 10700. Always figure your RV will be loaded to the max weight. At that the tongue weight already be pushing your truck's payload capacity, and you haven't put your stuff in the truck yet. The WD is going to shift more of the hitch weight forward onto your truck's front axle so the front wheels will remain on the ground and the headlights won't be aimed at the trees. And once you get that load moving you then have to control it and stop it, which will tax a 150/1500 pick-up badly. Sorry, you are looking at a TT that needs to be hooked to a 250/2500. Forget the "legal" aspect, if you take that rig on the highway and injure or kill someone because you were overloaded and lost control, can you live with that? You'll need to find a TT that maxs out around 8500, then you'll be closer to where you should be with that truck.

Agreed , that 10k will be a challenge with way, break assist, shocks, gawk ratios.. so to be fair, I plan on keeping it under 8500 lbs, I have weighed the stuff going there and don’t plan with this vehicle to boon dock.

No I would not want that burden of taking someone’s life by my carelessness. Though I am getting the facts as best as I can.. so thank you and appreciate your ideas.
Ian

[keymastr]

First off, "full featured dry weight" sounds like it was from the Outdoors RV brochure, as thhat was how mine was listed. What the brochure cannot tell you is that weight is just an estimate written months before those units started rolling down the line. Often they do not include awnings, slide toppers, Accesory/generator racks, spare tires, and almost never include propane tanks or batteries let alone the actual propane. Anything that could be considered an option like air conditioners may not be included either.

What I am telling you is that my trailer was several hundred pounds over the "full featured dry weight" and had a tongue weight of just over 12%. It will be much closer to it's gross weight rating than you think and will have a tongue weight between 1200 and 1500 pounds depending on where the weight is located. With another 100 pounds for the WD hitch and your passengers you will be at or over the max cargo weight of that truck. Most here who have driven that standard F150 will tell you that is 3000 pounds too much trailer and if it is over 26 feet long it is even worse. A 30 foot trailer has too much leverage for a lighter weighing tow vehicle. An F250 weighs about 2000 pounds more and it makes a big difference in the tail wagging the dog.

Don't do it! Read the towing threads going back as far as you want. Nearly everyone who tries to tow right to the limit of rated capacity finds out pretty soon that they need more truck and end up with a bigger one, spending much more than they had planned, myself included. Countless threads like yours. Probably the most common thread on the site. Quote: "I need a smaller vehicle to fit in my garage, I need it to ride like a car and get 20 MPG as a daily driver. I need an SUV with 3 rows of seating." All of those things are TERRIBLE reasons to choose a tow vehicle. It should be chosen by it's capacity to safely control your trailer and cargo in the worst, nost extreme conditions possible. Period.

[tuffr2]

What you can try is a better W/D hitch with sway control. Do a search on this site for Pro-Pride and you will see a post by a very experienced person that list 3 or 4 good devices. Another one that I remember is Straight-Line. The very best W/D Sway Control will cost $800 - $1500.

Heck, people that want to tow that much are usually talking about 3/4 and 1 ton trucks gas or diesel.

Even if you spend $1,500 on a fancy Pro-Pride device you may still not be happy with the way your current truck tows that trailer.

[runamuck]

my freedom express has a sticker showing the weight as shipped from the factory. It weighs 329# more than the brochure says and that is before the battery which was added at the dealer. so you have to take those brochure numbers as just a "ballpark number"

[Demiles]

Just an FYI. Vehicle manufactures tow ratings are set with marketing in mind, meaning that rating applies to a vehicle at its absolute minimum GVW as allowed by the SAE j2807 standard. They set the rating at 10,700 which doesn’t mean that at 10,699 everything is going to be perfectly fine. Salesmen are always optimistic on the numbers just to make a sale so be careful. The best thing you can do before you buy is educate yourself. My own comfort level for conventional towing is the trailer shouldn’t weigh more than 1.2x the unladen truck weight. That provides a decent margin of safety that I prefer.

[cfowler55]

I have to respectfully disagree. Manufacturers must insure the published specs are indeed safe. Now this is not to say it would be a 100% pleasant experience towing at or near the limit. But it will be safe with a diligent operator. By the mentioned 1.2x rule , if I understand what you are saying, you would limit my DWR 3500 to 10,200 tow capacity ?

[CWSWine]

There should be a sticker on your hitch that has two weights ratings. One with and one without WD. I guess the with WD will be between 1100 and 1200 pounds and the one without between 500 and 600 pounds. Loaded ready to camp that TT at 8500 pounds with tongue weight between 10 and 15 percent would be 850 to 1275 and a TT at 10% I think is too light and hard to handle.

[Skip426]

The other consideration is , that not all the truck's payload capacity is available at the rear axle , and it's the rear axle rating and tire capacity that's most often pushed past the limit.

Take the truck loaded for travel , to the scales with a full tank of fuel and get the true loaded axle weights to compare with the ratings .
Don't forget the , weight distribution hitch and sway bar weights in any calculations.

[bneukam]

I agree with keymastr, do not go by the ORV website. Look at the dry weights of models that are sitting on dealers lots. The model I was looking at last year was over 500lbs heavier sitting on the lot versus the website. Many people have bought an ORV thinking their 1/2 ton would tow it. My neighbor included, but soon realized they needed a bigger truck. They used to list some of their models as 1/2 ton towable when in fact they weren’t even close. ORV builds a great product, but they need to be more up front on their website on dry, and tongue weights. IMHO

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by ihbond

LEgality: Is this doable.
TRAVEL TRAILER:
Maximum Trailer Weight - Lbs. 9995
Dry Hitch Weight (approx. Lbs.) 795

If you properly load that trailer to 9,000 pounds, the hitch weight is going to be about 1,270 pounds. If you load it for bear but don't exceed the gvwr of the trailer, the hitch weight will be about 1,400 pounds.

Your receiver hitch probably has a weight limit less than 1,270 pounds, so the hitch will be overloaded, even if you didn't have other weight problems.

TRUCK: 2018 v6 twin turbo 3.5, SCREW, Shrt Bd, regular tow pkg
TOW: 10,700
Sticker: Combined Weight of occupants and cargo never exceed 1841 lbs
REAR GAWR: 3800
GVWR: 7000

The tow rating is NOT your limiter. You'll exceed the GVWR long before you reach the tow rating,

Your GVWR is only 7,000 pounds. Without anything in the truck, the hitch weight is going to overload your F-150. You don't have the max tow pkg, and you don't have the heavy duty payload pkg, so you'reprobably going to be severely overloaded with that trailer.

Did i calculate correctly folks ?

No. Not even close. You're trying to justify towing way too heavy a trailer with way too little tow vehicle.

Would a WDH, take some of the pounds off the vehicle to share with the TT ?

Yeah, but not enough to prevent you from exceeding the payload capacity of your F-150. However, you must have a WD hitch for any tongue weight (TW) more than 500 pounds, so plan on buying a good WD hitch for any trailer that weighs more than about 3,850 pounds.

Subjective: anyone have a similar setup and tow, ...

Not exactly. I have a similar tow vehicle, but my TT is much smaller and lighter weight. On my last RV trip, the wet and loaded trailer grossed less than 5,000 pounds, yet I was overloaded by 100 pounds over the 7,100 pounds GVWR of my F-150

is this doable, are we pushing it ?

You'll not just be pushing the limits, you'll probably be way overloaded.

Your wonderful 3.5l Ecoboost drivetrain will have no problem PULLING that trailer over the pass, but you'll probably be severely overloaded over the payload capacity of the F-150 when loaded with a normal family, tools and camping gear.

...any things we can do mechanically to the truck to increase our success?

No. Nothing you can do will increase the GVWR and payload capacity of your F-150. if you insist on towing that trailer, the answer is to jack it up and run a heavier-duty truck under it. You can patch the suspension with overload air bags or overload springs to hide the symptoms of a sagging rear end and headlights aiming for the stars, but you'll still be overloaded.

So your answer is to shop for a much lighter TT. With very little weight in the F-150, you can probably handle a trailer with GVWR not more than about 7,000 pounds without being overloaded.

If you're serious about buying a TT to tow with your F-150 without being overloaded, then here's the drill:

1] Load your F-150 with everybody and everything that will be in it when towing. No guessing nor estimating. Everything means pets, tools, campfire wood, and anything else that weighs more than a handkerchief that will be in the F-150 when towing.

2] Drive to a truck stop that has a CAT scale and fill up with gas.

3] Weigh the wet and loaded F-150.

4] Subtract the weight of the wet and loaded F-150 from the GVWR of the F-150. The answer is the payload capacity available for hitch weight.

5] Subtract 100 pounds from the payload capacity available for hitch weight and the answer is the payload capacity available for tongue weight. That 100 pounds is for the weight of a good WD hitch.

6] Divide the payload capacity available for tongue weight by 13% (O.13) and the answer is the heaviest TT with average TW you can tow without being overloaded. Guaranteed, it will be a lot lighter trailer than the one you're considering.

Example: You wet and loaded truck weighs 6,000 pounds. So the heaviest TT with average TW you can tow without being overloaded is 6,923 pounds.