SRW versus DRW for 5th Wheel Pulling

[Doss]

I recently debated between 2500 and 3500 for future expansion. I don't need the capacity at the moment but I am weighing a trade while my truck's value is still relatively high.
You guys convinced me to go for the 3500.

Now I am wondering if I would ever regret not getting DRW. For maintenance, daily drivability etc, I would much prefer SRW.

I did a quick look at the heaviest 5ers I could find and the highest GVWER rarely hit or topped 17K. That is 3K below a 3500 SRW capacity.

Obviously a DRW will be more stable but I am not seeing the trade off.

I have had a DRW in the past and it was great but it wasn't my daily driver.

[Dave Pelletier]

Originally Posted by Doss

I recently debated between 2500 and 3500 for future expansion. I don't need the capacity at the moment but I am weighing a trade while my truck's value is still relatively high.
You guys convinced me to go for the 3500.

Now I am wondering if I would ever regret not getting DRW. For maintenance, daily drivability etc, I would much prefer SRW.

I did a quick look at the heaviest 5ers I could find and the highest GVWER rarely hit or topped 17K. That is 3K below a 3500 SRW capacity.

Obviously a DRW will be more stable but I am not seeing the trade off.

I have had a DRW in the past and it was great but it wasn't my daily driver.

A great many people will go with the SRW for a 17,000 lb 5er, but I'm not one of them. For me, I draw my "line in the sand" for DRW's about 14,000 - 15,000 lbs. Like everything (particularly everything RV), there are pros and cons but I prefer to buy my truck for the heaviest load I plan on towing/hauling - been daily driving a DRW truck for 21 years now.

Yes, sometimes the DRW's are a bit more of a PITA (drive thru's , etc.) but I'm happy to trade that off for the huge difference in towing stability as well as future proofing my truck. I don't know if I'll ever buy a large 5th wheel but I may very well buy another slide-in truck camper and a dually is the best choice for one of those.....with 5,550 lbs of payload, 9,900 GAWR and 31,200 lbs max trailer capacity, I have no concerns about needing a different truck regardless of any future choices. In the meantime, I enjoy the most stable towing truck I've ever owned and I've had a small fleet of trucks for 35 years now. 174" WB, 48 gall tank, 1,050 ft lbs and DRW's =

I'm sure I'm in the minority but that's my perspective FWIW.


2 cents,

Dave

[4x4ord]

The four disadvantages a DRW possesses: width, length, gear ratio, and stiffer suspension all become advantages over a SRW short box while you are towing. I am quite happy towing my 16,000 lb rv with my SRW shortbox. If I was needing a long box I’d probably put up with the wider stance, rougher ride and poorer gear ratio of dually as well. I suspect there are quite a few fivers with gvwr of 17,000 lbs that would push the limits of a SRW. Definitely buy what’s right for you now. If in five years you want a bigger heavier trailer why not up grade the truck at the same time?

[JIMNLIN]

One ton srw vs one ton drw is more about how much load can be carried in the bed.
Both can use the same engine/tranny combo so no problems pulling the mfg 17k tow ratings.

The GM one ton has highest rawr at 10500 lbs for carrying up to 6500-6800 lbs as in hitch loads.
One ton srw GM has 7250 rawr and good for around 3600-3800 lb hitch loads before exceeding a rawr (wheel/tire/rear suspension).
Some one ton srw may have over 4000 lb payload stickers however the sticker number is a gvwr number based on front and rear axles.

Of course actual payloads depend on actual scaled axle weights.
By the time the truck is loaded/hitch in the bed/trailer hooked up , load percentage on the rear axle may get close to 25 percent.

The one ton srw will work if the hitch numbers match the trucks gawrs.

[Dave Pelletier]

Originally Posted by 4x4ord

The four disadvantages a DRW possesses: width, length, gear ratio, and stiffer suspension all become advantages over a SRW short box while you are towing. I am quite happy towing my 16,000 lb rv with my SRW shortbox. If I was needing a long box I’d probably put up with the wider stance, rougher ride and poorer gear ratio of dually as well. I suspect there are quite a few fivers with gvwr of 17,000 lbs that would push the limits of a SRW. Definitely buy what’s right for you now. If in five years you want a bigger heavier trailer why not up grade the truck at the same time?

Width? sure.....length? No - not a DRW thing, all CC Long box Ford trucks share the same 174" wheelbase. gear ratio? ....I consider my 3.55's perfect for my truck and the mandatory 4.30's in the F-450 is one of the big reasons I stuck with my F350 DRW. Stiffer suspension? I'm not sure the springs are any heavier than an F350 SRW with the camper package....

Cheers,
Dave

[High Road Travelers]

I have a one ton dually because that is the only truck I could find last year when I had to have a truck. I wanted a SRW GMC one ton, but trucks were very scarce at that time and I found a RAM 3500 dually and grabbed it up as fast as I could. It is really good, except when I need to drive in tight city places, park downtown, etc. But it is great to tow my 15K fifth wheel, and I feel comfortable and stable towing in the mountains and through side winds.
I'm happy with it, and I'm getting more walking exercise in by parking in the back 40 of the parking lots.
Thanks,

[Rhagfo]

Originally Posted by 4x4ord

The four disadvantages a DRW possesses: width, length, gear ratio, and stiffer suspension all become advantages over a SRW short box while you are towing. I am quite happy towing my 16,000 lb rv with my SRW shortbox. If I was needing a long box I’d probably put up with the wider stance, rougher ride and poorer gear ratio of dually as well. I suspect there are quite a few fivers with gvwr of 17,000 lbs that would push the limits of a SRW. Definitely buy what’s right for you now. If in five years you want a bigger heavier trailer why not up grade the truck at the same time?

I could quote the four other DRW drivers like myself either don't have an issue with a DRW, or like myself daily drive one.


Width well if the mirrors fit the hips will fit. The hips are also the reason I chose to back into parking spaces.


Length, a DRW is no longer than a SRW with the same cab and bed.


I don't understand Gear Ratio, our DRW has a 3.73, a bit lower than the 3.55 of our old 2001 2500, but not killer, diesel makes up for that. That 3.73 and diesel gives a tow rating of 25,219#.


As stated we daily drive our DRW, and not many places I won't venture.

[4x4ord]

Originally Posted by Dave Pelletier

Width? sure.....length? No - not a DRW thing, all CC Long box Ford trucks share the same 174" wheelbase. gear ratio? ....I consider my 3.55's perfect for my truck and the mandatory 4.30's in the F-450 is one of the big reasons I stuck with my F350 DRW. Stiffer suspension? I'm not sure the springs are any heavier than an F350 SRW with the camper package....

Cheers,
Dave

You can’t get a DRW CC in a 160” wheel base. The SRW can be shorter. When I load 7000 lbs on the back of my SRW the rubber bumper stops are on the axle ….. Is the suspension really that soft on the DRW? As far as axle ratio goes I don’t doubt that 3.55’s work alright for your application but definitely not perfect. The new HO Powerstroke at 1200 lbft of torque makes 3.55 gears even less attractive. I think if you could try 3.10’s in a Ford dually with a HO you’d find it to be a very good compromise for towing a 15000 lb RV when loaded and running some miles empty.

[4x4ord]

Originally Posted by Rhagfo

I could quote the four other DRW drivers like myself either don't have an issue with a DRW, or like myself daily drive one.


Width well if the mirrors fit the hips will fit. The hips are also the reason I chose to back into parking spaces.


Length, a DRW is no longer than a SRW with the same cab and bed.


I don't understand Gear Ratio, our DRW has a 3.73, a bit lower than the 3.55 of our old 2001 2500, but not killer, diesel makes up for that. That 3.73 and diesel gives a tow rating of 25,219#.


As stated we daily drive our DRW, and not many places I won't venture.

It’s totally understandable for you to like your truck and to not want something different but when daily driving a DRW long box you have to concede that there are advantages that a shortbox SRW truck has. When towing …. the longer wider truck is better.

What you need to understand with gear ratios is this:
Your 2016 Ram (and I’ll assume you have the HO Cummins and Aisin) is capable of delivering 900 lbft of torque to the driveshaft at 1600 rpm. In low gear when you step on the throttle that torque can be about doubled by the torque converter before you start moving. The first gear ratio of 3.1 further multiplies the torque. Finally, that torque is multiplied again by the 3.73 ratio of your rear axle.

So 900 lbft x 2 x 3.1 x 3.73 = 20,817 lb ft of torque that your truck is capable of putting to the rear axle to initiate your truck and trailer to get moving.


Compare this to a new HO Powerstroke with a 3.31 rear axle ratio.
1200 lbft of torque at 1600 rpm x 2 for the torque converter x 4.615 first gear ratio x 3.31 final drive = 36,661 lbft.

In other words in order for your 2016 Ram to put the kind of torque to the rear wheels that the new Powerstroke is capable of delivering to the rear axle through a 3.31 ratio axle you’d need a 6.57 rear axle ratio.

So, obviously the 3.31 axle ratio provides all the oomph we need for lighter trailers behind the new Ford diesel but to get that 3.31 axle ratio we have to go to a SRW truck.

Anyway, having the 3.55 gears in a new Ford dually over 3.31 gears and taller tires of a comparable SRW is really not a disadvantage until we go to fill the tank with fuel. Every fill up is going to cost at least 10 to 15 dollars more with the drw compared to what a 3.31 equipped SRW with 34 inch tires would cost.

[HutchCamper]

To each their own. Jumping in to say that I have had several DRW's over the years. To me the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. This time we wanted to future proof the truck in case we went with a bigger trailer in the future. Currently have 37' fifth wheel. I daily the DRW like I always have. Plus, I have never had a truck with less than an 8' bed and never will. Just my two cents.

[Camp CA]

After towing 14,000 lb fifth wheel trailers with a 3/4-ton short bed for many years I really enjoy the 1-ton long bed DRW for towing my 16,750 lb fifth wheel trailer and fine for daily commuting. The new 1-ton DRW are surprising comfortable to drive and economical with a 3.55 axle ratio FWIW.

[MFL]

IMO, the need for a DRW starts with a FW GVWR of 16K.

If you are full time, and hauling as much junk/possessions in the truck, as you are cramming in a midsize FW, you MAY need a DRW.

If you have a business, with multiple trailers, you need a DRW truck big enough to carry a load, plus tow your heaviest trailer. This makes good sense! OTOH, if you own a fleet of trucks (let's say 9), why would you daily drive the biggest truck for so many years? Could it be for the same reason I enjoy driving my Super Duty, when I could choose my sport car, or midsize SUV?

Had a guy ask once, why I am riding my bicycle, when I have 3 motorcycles in my garage. The answer; I enjoy riding, and the exercise is a bonus! Oh ya, I very much enjoy riding motorcycles too!

[Jim513]

For us, it was about sightseeing and parking in tourist areas. We decided that we would be driving as many miles sightseeing as we would towing. We made the decision to stick with a 250 SB, and keep our 5th wheel trailer weight to 11,000# gross. After 5 years, happy with decision.
But if we went with a bigger 5th wheel, we would be looking at a dually for stability.

[Dave Pelletier]

Originally Posted by 4x4ord

You can’t get a DRW CC in a 160” wheel base. The SRW can be shorter. When I load 7000 lbs on the back of my SRW the rubber bumper stops are on the axle ….. Is the suspension really that soft on the DRW? As far as axle ratio goes I don’t doubt that 3.55’s work alright for your application but definitely not perfect. The new HO Powerstroke at 1200 lbft of torque makes 3.55 gears even less attractive. I think if you could try 3.10’s in a Ford dually with a HO you’d find it to be a very good compromise for towing a 15000 lb RV when loaded and running some miles empty.

So your mixing in arguments about SB vs. LB rather than DRW vs. SRW.....my F350 SRW is also a long box. Certainly everything is a trade-off but I won't personally buy a shortbox truck for what I do.

I tend to agree that Ford errors towards lower than necessary axle ratios given the power of the 6.7 and the ratios available in the 10spd - I think the 4.30's as the only gear available in the F450 is a mistake but the 3.55's are perfectly fine IMO and strike a great balance between capability and economy.

I would be fine with 4.30's behind my 7.3 but wouldn't want them in my diesel.

Dave