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Old 01-30-2023, 10:17 AM   #15
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Ditto on Ken's comments. Sway won't be the big issue, it will be GVWR, payload and RAWR.....that trailer should have a loaded pin weight close to the Tremor's payload. As mentioned, the Tremors aren't the best for heavy towing/hauling as they are compromised for increased offroad ability. I'd be looking at a dually for that trailer myself.
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Old 01-30-2023, 10:29 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXiceman View Post
Light pin weight can make for a miserable towing experience. A friend has a 37 or 38 foot 5er that is a normal weight trailer, not a light weight and his pin weight is closer to 17 or 18% of the trailer GVWR. It will beat you to death on a road that did not both our trailer and truck. My advice is not trying to go light on the pin weight just to get into a smaller truck. Get a truck suitable for the weight rating on the trailer as well as the cargo capacity to carry the pin weight and passengers.

Ken
I agree with part of what you stated. Light pin weight can be one factor in a rough ride or sway problems, but usually not the only factor.
Distance from the truck tires to trailer tires, truck suspension/tires, load distribution, trailer tires, type of hitch, and trailer nose high/low, can also be factors.
My current RV is 12k and 35' pulled with a 2500HD 6.5' bed Duramax. Trailer tires are load range G 14 ply rated. Hitch is a Sidewinder Fifth Airborne (air ride). Trailer is nose high by 1". The pin weight is usually 14 to 16%. Pulls like a dream.
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Old 01-30-2023, 12:42 PM   #17
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As others said skip the tremor package, especially since youíre already questions things. It will not tow as comfortable as the non lifted / big tire versions.

Any 1 ton / 3500 will tow that trailer within spec. Heck, even the gas version Ford will. I would be really temped for the 7.3 with the nice 10 speed if towing under 14k.

Love my diesel torque and need it for my weights but if I downsize Iím going gas.
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Old 01-30-2023, 01:00 PM   #18
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I'm looking at a:
tow: f350 diesel Tremor with guesstimated 3350 payload on the sticker
5er: 44' Arctic Wolf with 1655 pin weight, 13700 GVWR, 10800 UVW



What is the tremor package on a Ford f350?
The off-road Tremor package for the F-350 adds 35-inch all-terrain tires, a rear locking differential, lifted suspension and underbody skid plates, custom sway bars and upgraded twin-tube shocks

That Tremor Package is fine for off-roading and can be OK for Travel Trailer/Bumper Pull
5th wheel........gonna be bit different due to 'height' of truck, nose high 5vr and LIGHT pin weight
Bed rail clearance, getting 5vr to tow level (hitch/pin box adjustments/sub-frame on 5vr)

As for that 44' 5th wheel
10800/UVW with 1655 dry pin is only 15%
13700 GVWR at 15% wet pin is only 2055#
That is a very light pin weight ratio-----better if 22% and 5rv level

Light pin, length, nose high and raised truck.......not good tow combo for 5th wheel
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Old 01-30-2023, 01:26 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Toby Dog View Post
Two important weights mentioned shouldn't be guessed at. If the pin weight is from the trailer specs it is the unloaded pin weight.
As to the payload capacity you need to actually look at the truck sticker itself.
Typically 5ers don't sway but that length and a light pin can keep you busy.
The typical diesel Tremor F350 payload from the sticker is 3200-3600. Based off my options I think 3350 lbs is pretty close.

I was looking at the Arctic Wolf 3660Suite. The UVW is 11,188 with a cargo capacity of 2,887 pounds.

For total payload I assumed:
1655 unloaded pin weight
150 from additional factory options
400 from additional cargo in the trailer
400 from 2 passengers and gear in the truck
250 pounds from the hitch

That puts me at 2855 pounds of payload, 500 pounds shy of payload sticker of 3350.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselguy4 View Post
Check rear GAWR and tire load capacity. You will get more sway out of those 35 inch tires due to them rolling. My SRW Dodge Ram Mega Cab 3500 did it . It was not fun to tow in cross winds. I have a 40 ft fifth wheel. Moved to a dually.
I believe rear GAWR is de-rated from 7230 to 6950 for the Tremor. If the entire added payload of 2855 pounds sits on the rear axles it should still be under 6950. I think the load rating is E for all F350 tires? Not sure there ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercee View Post
Wow, those AW 5th wheels are super light for 44'. I looked at the entire family of the 44 footers but didn't see any matching your listed weight specs.
I was looking at the Forest River AW 3660Suite model. It doesn't use a Z frame so it saves a lot of weight at the expense of less storage space and head room. It's also missing a residential fridge, TVs, etc.
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Old 01-30-2023, 04:13 PM   #20
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As a commercial truck driver with full size 53', I dont think you will have to worry about sway as much as side wind push. 5th wheels just have more inherent stability than other types of trailers due to how that are mounted to the tow vehicle.


Of course you will have to keep in mind load and balance, but you shouldnt get what us TT guys call sway at all. Bigger worry is being straight out blown over in a strong side wind, lol.
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Old 01-31-2023, 06:14 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit View Post
I'm looking at a:
tow: f350 diesel Tremor with guesstimated 3350 payload on the sticker
5er: 44' Arctic Wolf with 1655 pin weight, 13700 GVWR, 10800 UVW



What is the tremor package on a Ford f350?
The off-road Tremor package for the F-350 adds 35-inch all-terrain tires, a rear locking differential, lifted suspension and underbody skid plates, custom sway bars and upgraded twin-tube shocks

That Tremor Package is fine for off-roading and can be OK for Travel Trailer/Bumper Pull
5th wheel........gonna be bit different due to 'height' of truck, nose high 5vr and LIGHT pin weight
Bed rail clearance, getting 5vr to tow level (hitch/pin box adjustments/sub-frame on 5vr)

As for that 44' 5th wheel
10800/UVW with 1655 dry pin is only 15%
13700 GVWR at 15% wet pin is only 2055#
That is a very light pin weight ratio-----better if 22% and 5rv level

Light pin, length, nose high and raised truck.......not good tow combo for 5th wheel

Old Biscuit, you just saved me a bunch of typing! You hit the nail on the head.
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Old 01-31-2023, 08:16 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Rhagfo View Post
Old Biscuit, you just saved me a bunch of typing! You hit the nail on the head.
He usually does!
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Old 01-31-2023, 08:23 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by NPCampbell View Post
The typical diesel Tremor F350 payload from the sticker is 3200-3600. Based off my options I think 3350 lbs is pretty close.

I was looking at the Arctic Wolf 3660Suite. The UVW is 11,188 with a cargo capacity of 2,887 pounds.

For total payload I assumed:
1655 unloaded pin weight
150 from additional factory options
400 from additional cargo in the trailer
400 from 2 passengers and gear in the truck
250 pounds from the hitch

That puts me at 2855 pounds of payload, 500 pounds shy of payload sticker of 3350.




I believe rear GAWR is de-rated from 7230 to 6950 for the Tremor. If the entire added payload of 2855 pounds sits on the rear axles it should still be under 6950. I think the load rating is E for all F350 tires? Not sure there ...



I was looking at the Forest River AW 3660Suite model. It doesn't use a Z frame so it saves a lot of weight at the expense of less storage space and head room. It's also missing a residential fridge, TVs, etc.
You are using the manufacturer's dry weights and then making a bunch of assumptions.....you are far better off to use 22% of the trailer's GVWR as many have mentioned previously. Your 500lbs of extra capacity could easily end up being zero or worse.

2 cents
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Old 01-31-2023, 09:45 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Dave Pelletier View Post
You are using the manufacturer's dry weights and then making a bunch of assumptions.....you are far better off to use 22% of the trailer's GVWR as many have mentioned previously. Your 500lbs of extra capacity could easily end up being zero or worse.



2 cents
His estimated pin weight is only 150lbs shy of the 3000lb 22% of GVWR you suggest. Seems like a pretty good assumption on his part. 20% has been closer to RL weights for myself and most of my fifth wheels have had less actual percentage than that.
Dry weights from the factory is the only thing you can base decisions on until you purchase the unit, load it up, and run it across a scale.
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Old 01-31-2023, 10:24 AM   #25
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All other things considered; measure the height of the bedrails on the Tremor. Then, measure the overhang height on the intended trailer when level. I would want 4" of clearance when unhooked and allowing for 2" of truck squat.
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Old 01-31-2023, 10:33 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Reprobate View Post
His estimated pin weight is only 150lbs shy of the 3000lb 22% of GVWR you suggest. Seems like a pretty good assumption on his part. 20% has been closer to RL weights for myself and most of my fifth wheels have had less actual percentage than that.
Dry weights from the factory is the only thing you can base decisions on until you purchase the unit, load it up, and run it across a scale.
Pin weight and payload are two different ratings
Pin weight is the amount of weight added to the trucks rear axle/tires
Payload is trucks weight capacity based on front & rear axles
*Trucks GVWR minus Base Weight (minus any trim options)
400# of passengers/gear in truck are payload NOT Pin Weight

Suspect when REAL Numbers are used OP will exceed Payload but not rear axle rating
BUT that is going to be least of issues towing a 5th wheel with 35" tires, increased suspension etc Tremor Trim

Bed rail clearance, Nose High, light pin weight...all spell not good towing combo
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Old 01-31-2023, 10:45 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit View Post
Pin weight and payload are two different ratings

Pin weight is the amount of weight added to the trucks rear axle/tires

Payload is trucks weight capacity based on front & rear axles

*Trucks GVWR minus Base Weight (minus any trim options)

400# of passengers/gear in truck are payload NOT Pin Weight



Suspect when REAL Numbers are used OP will exceed Payload but not rear axle rating

BUT that is going to be least of issues towing a 5th wheel with 35" tires, increased suspension etc Tremor Trim



Bed rail clearance, Nose High, light pin weight...all spell not good towing combo
He actually calculated payload, I just used the wrong term. Forgot that you have to be very specific in these discussions....
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Old 01-31-2023, 12:32 PM   #28
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Dry weights from the factory is the only thing you can base decisions on until you purchase the unit, load it up, and run it across a scale.
I would disagree. I would use the GVWR as you will be closer to that than dry weight by the time you are ready to camp. Plus that should be your worst case number.
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