Test Drove a 2017 F350 dually today and...

[Gordon Dewald]

If you are looking for a smoother ride when you buy a heavy truck there are numerous aftermarket air ride kits that you can add to your truck. You air up with a load and air down without. Run between 3500 and 5000.

You will get used to the shift lever.

[RussOnTheRoad]

Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald

If you are looking for a smoother ride when you buy a heavy truck there are numerous aftermarket air ride kits that you can add to your truck. You air up with a load and air down without. Run between 3500 and 5000.

You will get used to the shift lever.

Thanks for your comments

Are you talking about kits like the Firestone Ride-Rite Air Springs? I had those on my Class C in the rear. They raised the vehicle up a little giving me a little more ground clearance which was handy for that ass-dragging machine. I sometimes even used them to help level the rig side to side by pumping one side up while deflating the other.

I'm not certain it was ever clear to me what they did for ride comfort, but to be fair I didn't use them in conjunction with adjusting tire air pressure which I always kept at max. Unlike a pickup which one moment is unloaded and the next has 4,000# of payload thereby allowing/requiring you to adjust tire pressure, the Class C had more or less a consistent weight which required a more or less consistent tire pressures.

I'm not so sure I'd get used to the shifting of the F350 and my other half who isn't as good as I am at this sort of thing might meet with an unacceptable level of frustration.

[bobbin]

Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald

If you are looking for a smoother ride when you buy a heavy truck there are numerous aftermarket air ride kits that you can add to your truck. You air up with a load and air down without. Run between 3500 and 5000.

You will get used to the shift lever.

imho, this is a misconception respecting air. IF the vehicle is engineered for air only, then an increase in comfort is possible. But no vehicles today are air only: they are all mechanically suspended inter alia by leaves or coils.

For longevity, reliability, simplicity, mechanical springs are very much preferable to air bags. If you need the capacity of a dually, then you must accept the standard, mechanical suspension with its harsh ride.

Yes, you can add air bags, but the purpose of these is to distribute the load between springs and bags thus to raise the rear and level the truck. When deflated, air bags do nothing in such mech/air configuration. At no time have I enjoyed a softer ride when using air bags on a dually.

In fact, air can introduce problems. 1/ is the reliability of the components: bags, compressor, valves, tubes, etc. 2/ is body roll. When level, air gives the impression your suspension is more solid. But this evaporates for body roll. The reason is the air system design: none today isolate left from right. This means as more weight shifts to right wheels during turns, the right side compresses down and the air in the right bag will deflate and move into the left bag: just like water in a carpenter level. The right side can then be overloaded, as only the mechanical springs remain to support the load. The solution is to add 1-way air valves to prevent this; and good luck trying to find and install these. If 1-way are used, each airbag must be greatly increased in capacity: and good luck trying to fit 2x sized bags onto any truck.

The overall solution is to engineer a spring material that is variable in its compression resistance: the more load the more resist. The only product on the market today that attempts this method is the Timbren. Timbren is not perfect, and some owners have negative experiences, but imho it is a step in the right direction.

as always, caveat emptor.

[RussOnTheRoad]

Originally Posted by bobbin

imho, this is a misconception respecting air. IF the vehicle is engineered for air only, then an increase in comfort is possible. But no vehicles today are air only: they are all mechanically suspended inter alia by leaves or coils.

For longevity, reliability, simplicity, mechanical springs are very much preferable to air bags. If you need the capacity of a dually, then you must accept the standard, mechanical suspension with its harsh ride.

Yes, you can add air bags, but the purpose of these is to distribute the load between springs and bags thus to raise the rear and level the truck. When deflated, air bags do nothing in such mech/air configuration. At no time have I enjoyed a softer ride when using air bags on a dually.

In fact, air can introduce problems. 1/ is the reliability of the components: bags, compressor, valves, tubes, etc. 2/ is body roll. When level, air gives the impression your suspension is more solid. But this evaporates for body roll. The reason is the air system design: none today isolate left from right. This means as more weight shifts to right wheels during turns, the right side compresses down and the air in the right bag will deflate and move into the left bag: just like water in a carpenter level. The right side can then be overloaded, as only the mechanical springs remain to support the load. The solution is to add 1-way air valves to prevent this; and good luck trying to find and install these. If 1-way are used, each airbag must be greatly increased in capacity: and good luck trying to fit 2x sized bags onto any truck.

The overall solution is to engineer a spring material that is variable in its compression resistance: the more load the more resist. The only product on the market today that attempts this method is the Timbren. Timbren is not perfect, and some owners have negative experiences, but imho it is a step in the right direction.

as always, caveat emptor.

Thanks for that. I learned, inter alia, what inter alia means! LOL.

I think you might be mistaken about one thing. I had Firestone Ride Ride air springs installed on my Class C. There was no compressor as the bags were manually filled or deflated. I used my bicycle pump and it took but a few pumps to fill them as they are quite small. They were also discrete, isolating completely right from left. Each had its own air valve. I could adjust each to different pressures and as I wrote above this allowed me to use them to help level my rig left to right.

[tuffr2]

How did you like the power when you stepped on it? A dually is built to provide very stable towing platform. If the tires were aired up to the max the ride will be mildly rough.

[bobbin]

Originally Posted by RussOnTheRoad

Thanks for that. I learned, inter alia, what inter alia means! LOL.

I think you might be mistaken about one thing. I had Firestone Ride Ride air springs installed on my Class C. There was no compressor as the bags were manually filled or deflated. I used my bicycle pump and it took but a few pumps to fill them as they are quite small. They were also discrete, isolating completely right from left. Each had its own air valve. I could adjust each to different pressures and as I wrote above this allowed me to use them to help level my rig left to right.

droll ! If you are using a bicycle pump, then each would have a valve, and so would be discrete. I was referring to an onboard system utilising a single air pump, and these do not usually have discrete 1-way valves.

Reverting to the OP, the query concerned comfort. Air, added to the stock suspension, will not increase comfort. air can level a truck in static condition. Like any suspension, an air suspension must be carefully designed, engineered, and tuned for the specific vehicle to achieve the optimum result.

cheers.

[RussOnTheRoad]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

How did you like the power when you stepped on it? A dually is built to provide very stable towing platform. If the tires were aired up to the max the ride will be mildly rough.

I do not know how well the tires were aired but I want to drive one again when I do. It was very peppy when I gave it some gas. Not sure if that is much of an indication of anything.

[tuffr2]

With the torque numbers for 2017 model trucks the peppy acceleration w/o a trailer will equate to very good acceleration with a heavy trailer. Example on my older 2012 dually, I probably have close to 20k miles towing and only one close call when I entered a sharpe highway exit with too much speed. But the dually was well planted and took that exit a bit like a sports cars.

[George Schweikle]

Russ,

Are you doing test drives of trucks in anticipation of going from a class C motorhome to a 5th wheel trailer?

Originally Posted by RussOnTheRoad

I do not know how well the tires were aired but I want to drive one again when I do. It was very peppy when I gave it some gas. Not sure if that is much of an indication of anything.

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by RussOnTheRoad

Thanks for your comments

Are you talking about kits like the Firestone Ride-Rite Air Springs? I had those on my Class C in the rear. They raised the vehicle up a little giving me a little more ground clearance which was handy for that ass-dragging machine. I sometimes even used them to help level the rig side to side by pumping one side up while deflating the other.

I'm not certain it was ever clear to me what they did for ride comfort, but to be fair I didn't use them in conjunction with adjusting tire air pressure which I always kept at max. Unlike a pickup which one moment is unloaded and the next has 4,000# of payload thereby allowing/requiring you to adjust tire pressure, the Class C had more or less a consistent weight which required a more or less consistent tire pressures.

I'm not so sure I'd get used to the shifting of the F350 and my other half who isn't as good as I am at this sort of thing might meet with an unacceptable level of frustration.

I looked at something for our 450 but decided I did not drive it unloaded enough to warrant the cost.

UltraRide Chassis Air Suspension
https://kelderman.com/specialty/lift-kits/

[MtnTrek]

With all the engineering marvels birthed by FOMOCO on their new SD-truck lines and we're debating the suspension harshness of a 350 DRW vs a Subaru? Perhaps we have way to much time on our hands.
Be well.

[Dasmoeturhead]

I'd rather drive my awesome Ram 3500 4x4 dually CTD, any day (stiff or not), than a Subaru (a car built for someone smaller than I am. Ram= total comfort, until you can't fit in a parking space at Chinamart.

[wingnut60]

MtnTrek,
Good response. Also, was just in a new 350 yesterday, and the guy sure didn't have any problems shifting from P to R to D. I think there are some unrealistic expectations at play...

[RussOnTheRoad]

Originally Posted by George Schweikle

Russ,

Are you doing test drives of trucks in anticipation of going from a class C motorhome to a 5th wheel trailer?

Yes. My Class C at this point is ancient history and I expect to be ordering both an F350 and Arctic Fox 29-5t fifth wheel in short order.