Tow Vehicle Advice

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by keymastr

Looks a little hard to steer Smoket

Yeah, that is just a photo I found on the internet showing an overhead console in a custom van being built. There are dozens of variations of van overhead consoles you can see by a Bing search for "custom van overhead console."

[lukeandluna]

Thanks for all the replys!
I must say I have added another option to my list of possible TV.
The van really looks like it would fit all my needs and not beat up my wallet as much as a newer 3/4 ton truck or 3/4 ton Burb as much as I like the 2.I like having more money at the end of the month !

Normal Dave
Thanks for the link it is a good starting point for me to start looking.
I have noticed that a lot if the used vans out there have the 5.4 V8 engines.
Seems like the V10 are harder to find in late model vans.
Do they place V10 engines in later model vans?
I would like to be in 2011-2016 vehicle.

I was looking at this one.

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourc eContext=carGurusHomePageModel&entitySelectingHelp er.selectedEntity=d1139&zip=12589#listing=23178427 7_isFeatured

Thoughts?

Smokey Wren
Great Ideas the pics are pretty cool.
I like the idea of captain chairs .
We currently have a minivan(which my wife does not like!) but the seating arrangements are captains in the front,middle and bench in back.
Would it be possible to get that type of configuration on an E350?

I think the main hurdle is getting wifey on board with a full size van.
I showed her some pics of some cool ones (at least I thought they were cool) her instant reply was I am not driving that.

[Normal_Dave]

For your trailer, an E-series wagon with the 5.4L might fall a bit short on towing capacity. The non-extended body maxes out at 7,000 LBS.

The 6.8L V10 is pretty rare, but don't worry about high mileage. 8,500 LBS with the 3.73 and 10,000 LBS with the 4.10. I don't recall when they dropped the V10 from the E-350 wagons.

Look for vans with factory tinted windows, and the aluminum 5 hole rims, also the two tone silver bottom stripe can be indicators of an XLT package that might also have the quad 7 passenger seating in a standard length van.

The 5.4L will do the job power wise, but you will need to keep it wound up in the hills. The concern with the 5.4L is the towing capacity vs. your particular trailer.
https://fifthwheelst.com/documents/f...9RVTrailer.pdf

Our van is the old Chateau Package, and with our family of 6 it was perfect. Friends with Suburbans often marveled at the ease of access to passenger seating, and the lower floor and higher ceiling height. Easy to drive, and see out of especially in the front. In a Chateau, or E-150 XLT Premium they came with leather, 7 passenger seating, and a huge luggage space. The newer E-150 is really setup as an E-250, suspension wise.

[shane_the_ee]

Is the wife opposed to any van, or just the Ford? If it's any van... happy wife, happy life. There's no point in being rich & miserable. If it's just the Ford, you could also consider a Nissan NV passenger with the V8...

[keymastr]

The 5.4 V8 is not a great engine for towing heavy. Unless it comes with the earplug option it will drive you crazy as it likes to rev between 3500-5000 RPM on the hills. Whatever you get, be sure the factory loading sticker on the door sill says it has at least 1500 pounds of cargo capacity ABOVE the weight of all the passengers and gear you plan on taking inside the van, and remember the kids will grow and may want to bring friends occasionally. That sticker will say "occupants and cargo shall not exceed xxxx Lbs".

[SmokeyWren]

If it's for me, then I'd order a brand new "Eurovan" Ford Transit Cargo (not passenger) van with the drivetrain and payload I needed for towing. Then add seats and carpet to make it nice inside. The Transit passenger vans are not available with the payload and drivetrain you need for towing in mountains. So build a cargo van with windows all around, then modify it a bit to add the interior you want. The van above will probably fit in your garage, but if you want more elbow room or head room, it's available to order. Here's one I built on Ford.com:

Your Transit
Payment
$38,330 Base MSRP
+$5,470 Total of Options
+$1,495 Destination Charges
=$45,295 Total MSRP
Model
$38,330 2019 Transit Cargo Van XL 350,
Medium Low Roof, 130” Wheelbase = longer and taller are available
3.5L EcoBoost® V6 Engine = all the towing power/torque you need for your trailer
6-Speed Automatic Overdrive with SelectShift® Transmission,
3.73 Limited Slip Axle = just to be sure you are not the slowpoke holding up traffic when towing.

Packages:
+$485 Heavy-Duty Trailer Tow Package
+$1,730 Cargo Van Premium Package

Exterior:
+$425 16-inch Styled Aluminum Wheels
+$450 Windows – All-Around, Fixed Glass
+$675 Windows – Privacy Glass
+$655 Running Board, Driver- and Passenger-Side – Extended Length
+$95 Remote Keyless-Entry Keypad
+$295 Reverse Sensing System
+$220 Long-Arm Power Heated Mirrors with Turn Signals (tow mirrors)

Interior:
+$60 D-Pillar Assist Handles
+$230 Trailer Brake Controller

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The following items are included in the trim or option packages above
Pewter Leather-trimmed Seating with 10-way power driver and passenger; power Lumbar driver and passenger;
Cruise Control with Message Center
Tow/Haul Mode with Trailer Wiring Provisions
Speakers – Six (6) Speakers, Front and Rear
AM/FM Stereo with SYNC® (Radio Pack #21)
Exterior Upgrade Package
Floor Covering – Vinyl, Front and Rear
Vinyl Sun Visors with Illuminated Vanity Mirrors
Rear View Mirror
driver-side and passenger-side airbags;
Safety Canopy side-curtain airbags;
inboard armrests;
and heated seats
235/65R16 BSW All-Season Tires
Spare Tire and Wheel with Four-Ton Jack
Rear-Window Defroster

Add back seat(s) from a bone yard, cover the floor with very heavy plush carpeting, and you have a very nice van for towing your camper while the kids have lots of room to chill.

Lots of other options are available if your budget allows, including navigation radio, Sirrus/XM satellite radio and rear heater/AC.

You're not going to find the above van in stock at any dealer. But if your wife just wants to see one, then show her a low roof/short wheelbase Transit passenger van. Most dealers that handle Transit vans should have one in stock.

[lukeandluna]

Thanks for all the reply's all.
So this morning we busted out the old cons and pros work sheet on a 3/4 ton truck,3/4 ton Suburban/Yukon and finally a full size 350 passenger van.

Truck
8 pros 4 cons
I already have a truck just not the right one . (1500 Silverado)
Ruled this out just couldn't justify 400 a month payment on a truck I would drive occasionally for pleasure/towing.
My week driving consists of a work provided Nissan NV 200.
I will keep up with fixing and maintaining the Chevy until it doesn't make sense anymore.

SUV
Pros 4 Cons 6
I wanted this to work.
At the end of the day the availability price, years of vehicles and mileage scratched it out.
Again the high monthly payment played its role.
Another factor out of my 3 kids my 4 year old is on a mission he is active and destructive so he is doing his job I just couldn't justify getting something nice and getting it jacked up by junior.
Wifey will continue driving 2012 Grand Caravan.

Van
Pros 4 Cons 4
This one took selling.
I based pricing on Normal Dave's link for the 03 E350 V10
The payment is very much doable in the 100s I think per month.
We have agreed whatever van we get it will be used for towing, family trips basically a 3rd vehicle.

So the search begins.
I have inquired about availability and VIN # for the 03 E 350.
Please correct me if I am wrong or steering off path.
I should be looking for
6.8 V10
1 ton van
4.10 gears
10k tow rating
Am i missing anything?
What other vans are comparable to the V10 E350?
On and off browsing today on ebay and craigslist didn't come up with many choices.

Shane ee I will look into the Nissan it did come on my radar for being able to tow 9,100 lbs I believe.


Thanks
For all your input!

[keymastr]

Almost any SUV will not have enough cargo capacity to tow AND carry people/gear. The exceptions as you know are the 3/4 ton Burb or Excursion but they are getting harder to find. The 1 ton vans CAN work but you must make sure the particular one you find has enough cargo capacity. Not all 1 tons are created equal, do your homework and learn how to read the stickers, vin codes etc. A bit harder to do if you go back further than '05 or so as that is when they started putting the yellow loading stickers clearly on the drivers door sill.

It may take quite awhile to locate what you want in decent condition if you are going back 15 years. My experience has been that vehicles depreciate most in the first 5 years and then plateau and even rise in value after 8 or 10 years if they are a desirable model as is the case of the 3/4 ton SUV so going that old may not be cheaper and certainly will not be more reliable.

[Normal_Dave]

If it's a third vehicle, then the van is my vote. The one I posted has tremendous potential, if it doesn't have rust.

Not much in my opinion, compares to the V10 E-350. Chevy had an 8.1 Express 1-ton but extremely rare. There is so much utility, and modular interior layout capability.

Lookup posts by carringb on that other RV forum (rv.net). He has well over 400K most of it heavy towing on his 6.8L E-350 extended wagon. He upgraded to 4.56 gears, and added dual rear wheel conversion.

Then go see this fellow down in North Carolina... an idea farm.
4x4 Van Conversion kits

[6_Riders]

6.0 gm van should work as well. You can also find the gm van with the 6.6 Duramax that are cheaper than a pickup by far, even though they are fairly hard to find.
I tow with a 1 ton extended GMC van. My 8000# trailer doesn't squat it much at all. Its as roomy as you can get. I also haul motorcycles in it. Much more utilitarian that a pickup really.

[lukeandluna]

Hey All,
Thanks for the replies.
Been looking around still for a van.

I keep going back to the van that Normal Dave found.
Looks clean low miles no rust.
I was able to pull specs via VIN.
I just wanna make sure I am within limits for my application.

me wife 3 kids
Trailer
2017
Gulf Stream Travel Trailer
Conquest 268BH
GVWR 7660 lbs
GAWR Front 3500 lbs
GAWR Rear 3500lbs

Ford E 350 Specs
Vehicle Name Ford Econoline Wagon
Body Style Ext Passenger Van
Body Code 138.0" WB
Drivetrain Rear Wheel Drive
Passenger Capacity 12, 6, 15 6.0 min 15.0 max
Gross Axle Wt Rating - Front 4600 lbs 4600.0 min 4600.0 max
Gross Axle Wt Rating - Rear 6340 lbs 6340.0 min 6340.0 max
Curb Weight - Front 2932 lbs 2932.0 min 2932.0 max
Curb Weight - Rear 3254 lbs 3254.0 min 3254.0 max
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating Cap 9300, 9300, 9100 lbs 9100.0 min 9400.0 max
Gross Combined Wt Rating 15,000, 18,500, 12,000 lbs
Dead Weight Hitch - Max Trailer Wt. 8,600, 10,000, 5,700 lbs
Dead Weight Hitch - Max Tongue Wt. 860, 1,000, 570 lbs 570.0 min 920.0 max
Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Trailer Wt. 10,000 lbs
Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Tongue Wt. 1000 lbs 1000.0 min 1000.0 max
Engine Order Code 99S
Engine Type Gas V10
Displacement 6.8L/415
Fuel System EFI
SAE Net Horsepower @ RPM 305 @ 4250
SAE Net Torque @ RPM 420 @ 3250
Trans Order Code 449, 44E 449.0 min 449.0 max
Trans Type 4 4.0 min 4.0 max
Trans Description Cont. Automatic w/OD
First Gear Ratio (:1) 2.71 2.71 min 2.71 max
Second Gear Ratio (:1) 1.54 1.54 min 1.54 max
Third Gear Ratio (:1) 1.00 1.0 min 1.0 max
Fourth Gear Ratio (:1) 0.71 0.71 min 0.71 max
Reverse Ratio (:1) 2.18 2.18 min 2.18 max
Cold Cranking Amps @ 0° F (Primary) 650 650.0 min 650.0 max
Cold Cranking Amps @ 0° F (2nd) 750 750.0 min 750.0 max
Maximum Alternator Capacity (amps) 220, 130 115.0 min 220.0 max
Maximum Alternator Watts 3300, 1950 1725.0 min 3300.0 max
Total Cooling System Capacity 30.6 qts 23.0 min 30.6 max
Engine Oil Cooler Yes
Frame Type 1 Channel Ladder
Suspension Type - Front Coil
Suspension Type - Rear 2-Stage Multi-Leaf
Spring Capacity - Front 3550 lbs 3550.0 min 3550.0 max
Spring Capacity - Rear 6195 lbs 6195.0 min 6195.0 max
Axle Type - Front Twin-I-Beam
Axle Type - Rear Ford Semi-Floating
Axle Capacity - Front 4600 lbs 4600.0 min 4600.0 max
Axle Capacity - Rear 6340 lbs 6340.0 min 6340.0 max
Axle Ratio (:1) - Rear 3.73, 4.10, 3.55 3.55 min 4.1 max
Shock Absorber Diameter - Front 35 mm 35.0 min 35.0 max
Shock Absorber Diameter - Rear 35 mm 35.0 min 35.0 max
Stabilizer Bar Diameter - Front 1.00 in 1.0 min 1.0 max
Front Tire Order Code T38
Rear Tire Order Code T38
Spare Tire Order Code T38
Front Tire Size LT245/75R16E
Rear Tire Size LT245/75R16E
Spare Tire Size LT245/75R16E
Front Tire Capacity 3042 lbs 3042.0 min 3042.0 max
Rear Tire Capacity 3042 lbs 3042.0 min 3042.0 max
Spare Tire Capacity 3042 lbs 3042.0 min 3042.0 max
Revolutions/Mile @ 45 mph - Front 677 Rev/Mile 677.0 min 677.0 max
Revolutions/Mile @ 45 mph - Rear 677 Rev/Mile 677.0 min 677.0 max
Revolutions/Mile @ 45 mph - Spare 677 Rev/Mile 677.0 min 677.0 max
Front Wheel Size 16 x 7.0 in
Rear Wheel Size 16 x 7.0 in
Spare Wheel Size 16 x 7.0 in
Front Wheel Material Aluminum, Steel
Rear Wheel Material Aluminum, Steel
Spare Wheel Material Steel
Steering Type Pwr
Steering Ratio (:1), On Center 17.0 17.0 min 17.0 max
Turning Diameter - Curb to Curb 48.0 ft 48.0 min 48.0 max
Turning Diameter - Wall to Wall 50.2 ft 50.2 min 50.2 max
Brake Type Pwr
Brake ABS System 4-Wheel
Disc - Front (Yes or ) Yes
Disc - Rear (Yes or ) Yes
Front Brake Rotor Diam x Thickness 13.03 x 0.48 in
Rear Brake Rotor Diam x Thickness 12.9 x 2.36 in
Fuel Tank Capacity, Approx 35.0 gal 18.6 min 35.0 max
Fuel Tank Location Midship
Front Head Room 42.5 in 42.5 min 42.5 max
Front Leg Room 40.0 in 40.0 min 40.0 max
Front Shoulder Room 68.4 in 68.4 min 68.4 max
Front Hip Room 65.6 in 65.6 min 65.6 max
Second Head Room 40.2 in 40.2 min 40.2 max
Second Leg Room 36.9 in 36.9 min 36.9 max
Second Shoulder Room 70.5 in 70.5 min 70.5 max
Second Hip Room 66.5 in 66.5 min 66.5 max
Third Head Room 40.1 in 40.1 min 40.1 max
Third Leg Room 41.4 in 41.4 min 41.4 max
Third Shoulder Room 71.2 in 71.2 min 71.2 max
Third Hip Room 66.9 in 66.9 min 66.9 max
Fourth Head Room 39.6 in 39.6 min 39.6 max
Fourth Leg Room 40.8 in 40.8 min 40.8 max
Fourth Shoulder Room 69.6 in 69.6 min 69.6 max
Fourth Hip Room 66.2 in 66.2 min 66.2 max
Fifth Head Room 38.0 in 38.0 min 38.0 max
Fifth Leg Room 38.5 in 38.5 min 38.5 max
Fifth Shoulder Room 68.1 in 68.1 min 68.1 max
Fifth Hip Room 66.0 in 66.0 min 66.0 max
Wheelbase 138.0 in 138.0 min 138.0 max
Length, Overall w/rear bumper 232.0 in 232.0 min 232.0 max
Width, Max w/o mirrors 79.3 in 79.3 min 79.3 max
Height, Overall 84.1 in 84.1 min 84.1 max
Overhang, Front 30.1 in 30.1 min 30.1 max
Overhang, Rear w/bumper 63.8 in 63.8 min 63.8 max
Ground to Top of Load Floor 30.2 in 30.2 min 30.2 max
Ground Clearance, Front 7.0 in 7.0 min 7.0 max
Ground Clearance, Rear 7.0 in 7.0 min 7.0 max
Rear Door Type Panel
Rear Door Opening Height 48.3 in 48.3 min 48.3 max
Rear Door Opening Width 51.4 in 51.4 min 51.4 max
Side Door Type Sliding, Hinged
Side Door Opening Height 48.3 in 48.3 min 48.3 max
Side Door Opening Width 39.6, 47.1 in 39.6 min 47.1 max
Cargo Area Length @ Floor to Seat 1 140.4 in 140.4 min 140.4 max
Cargo Box Width @ Wheelhousings 51.3 in 51.3 min 51.3 max
Cargo Box (Area) Height 52.5 in 52.5 min 52.5 max
Country of Origin United States Ford

Again thanks all for your time and wisdom.

[Normal_Dave]

Several thoughts.

The specs posted still don't tell us which gear ratio that actual van has. Have the dealer snap a pic of the door sticker, then lookup the 2 digit axle code to verify 3.73 or 4.10. Either way, with your trailer at 7,660 GVWR, you appear to be in good shape.

The E-350 I posted is an extended model, but the seating is setup for 12 passenger, and the pictures lead me to believe it was ordered new this way. The 4 passenger reward seat is in the third row position, leaving a large cargo space.

The XL package is the entry level, but this one has the power window and locks package upgrade, along with the nicer stereo and speakers in the doors. A quick visit to Crutchfield.com should take care of that. Add a flip down DVD player for the family and presto.

I like the slider passenger door, makes it easier to access when parked next to vehicles, or at campground.

The factory rear A/C and heat proves invaluable, along with the overhead adjustable air vents to keep individual passengers comfortable, not to mention the individual reading lights for each row.

While it has that government appearance with the dog dish hubcaps, rubber flooring and no chrome, you could easily upgrade those items from a donor XLT wagon, or if you want to get fancy, I've read you can graft the entire front grille and headlights from the newer models onto this one without too much trouble, although I prefer the look of the older models. You could simply swap the grille to the chrome trimmed one. The boring rectangular headlights actually perform better than the aero composite style on the fancier XLT wagons.

About the only achilles heel I can think of on the older vans is A/C blend door motors, one behind the dash, one in the rear that can fail to defrost only mode. Another is the door latch cables, which can pop out of their anchor, again age related. Not the end of the world, just something to consider.

Even if this one doesn't have the factory receiver installed, being a wagon, it should already have the harness run to a point just above/behind the rear axle, making the install of a factory 7-pin socket for your trailer a breeze.

Again, not going to win the beauty contest until you dress it up a bit, but I doubt you will find a more capable tow rig, with as few miles on it, for a few dollars as that boring E-350 Wagon.

The V10 and gas mileage don't go together either so take that idea off the table, but the saying goes, the V10 doesn't much care if it is towing or not, it's just the cost of doing RV business. With the money you are saving, you can buy lots of gas, take more trips, and be smiling like the cat that ate the canary while others are paying 60 even 72 months at hefty amounts for the privilege of towing with a new rig, that frankly isn't a whole lot more capable than what you have.

(Spoken like a true kool-aid drinking van owner...) Dig around a bit, you'll see several folks towing heavy with vans, that say they won't do it any other way, and lament the demise of the V10 in the E-350 wagons. The new Transit gives up the ability to tow as heavy as the V10 with passengers.

Here's an old ad that has pictures of a newer model XLT standard body length 12 passenger setup with an aftermarket DVD player in the ceiling. If you look close you will see there is very little difference between the models over the years, and only really cosmetic between XL and XLT in your case.
http://www.2040-cars.com/Ford/E-Seri...layer--320062/

A little eye candy: towing 15,000, (a huge Outdoors RV trailer), about 25,000 combined, now his rig is modified and IIRC, re-certified to back it up. but it is the 6.8L V10, E-350.

[Normal_Dave]

Copy/paste from carringb's post (on another forum) on the weight explanation for above:
"Van on this trip was a bit over 10,000 pounds (it's 8,500 empty). TT = 13,000 loaded. Sleds + trailer ~1,800. I didn't weight the sled trailer, but its galvy, not aluminum. Van and TT have been weighed many times."

[lukeandluna]

Thanks Dave
Still browsing
Came across a few Chevys 3500 with the 6.0
the Fords price and low miles is tempting .
My main concern is its age I currently have an 03 Chevy and well Iam fixing things granted it has 100k more miles on it.
I am not much for fancy I have learned my lesson anything nice the kids are gonna jack up.
As far as gas yep I get it nothing cheap about driving/towing camping it cost money.
Slider doors yep I am in agreement wifey has em on her minivan push button open close its awesome!
60 to 72 month loan? No thanks not for me
That pic is way cool that van looks mean!
The trailer behind the trailer too funny!