Tow vehicle powerful enough?

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by DarrelS

Greetings! My wife and I are preparing to purchase a new Cougar 27 ft travel trailer. We are trading up in to a bigger rig. My question to travel trailer owners is about the tow rig we will be using:
2015 Ford 150 XLS gas V8

Your F-150 has two weight limits that will give you a ballpark idea.

1] GCWR, determined by using the table in the trailer towing section of your F-150 Owner's Guide. For example, if your F-150 is a SuperCrew 5.0L 4x4 with the short bed and 3.31 axle ratio, then your GCWR is 14,300. With no weight in the F-150 except a full tank of gas and a skinny driver, so your wet and loaded F-150 weighs no more than 5,300 pounds, the max trailer weight you can tow without exceeding the power capacity of your 5.0L drivetrain is 9,000 pounds. But don't ignore that little word "max". Every pound of additional weight you haul in the F-150 (people. pets, tools, anything) reduces your tow rating pound for pound. Most owners feel that around 7,000 pounds max trailer weight for a lightly-loaded F-150 is the practical limit. And note that GCWR tells you the max weight your F-150 can PULL without overheating anything and without being the slowpoke holding up traffic on hills and passes. But GCWR ignores GVWR, which is the most common limiter as to max trailer weight.

2] GVWR, from the Federal Certification Label inside the driver's door frame. GVWR is used to determine the max weight you can haul on the 4 tires of the F-150. Most F-150s with a family and stuff on board can PULL a lot more weight that it can CARRY the hitch weight of a heavy trailer.

Since you already have the F-150, the most accurate way to determine max towing capacity is to load the F-150 with all the people and other weight that will be in it when towing, fill up with gas, then weigh the wet and loaded F-150 on a truck scale.

Subtract the weight of the wet and loaded F-150 from the GVWR of the F-150 and the answer is the payload capacity available for hitch weight. Subtract 100 pounds from the payload capacity available for hitch weight and the answer is the payload capacity available for tongue weight (TW). (The 100 pounds difference is for the weight of a good WD hitch).

Divide the payload capacity available for TW by 13% and the answer is the heaviest TT you can tow without being overloaded.

Looking for feedback on how well this rig will tow our new Cougar 27ft?

Depends on what you mean my 27ft. If it's the 27 in the model number, such the Cougar Half-Ton #27 SAB, you'll be overloaded, and probably severely overloaded.. Max gross trailer weight is 8,800 pounds, with about 1,244 pounds hitch weight when loaded for camping. Your F-150 probably has less than 1,244 pounds payload capacity available for hitch weight.

The new Cougar half-ton TT is not available with 27" overall length. Closest is 25' 11" for the #22RBS. That one will have loaded hitch weight of about 1,036 pounds. But I'll bet you don't have 1,036 pounds of payload capacity available for hitch weight, either.

The above bad new assumes your F-150 does not have the "rare as a Unicorn" heavy duty payload package (HDPP). If your F-150 has the HDPP then you're probably good to go with either of the above Cougar Half-Ton TTs.

My advice? If it's not too late, cancel the deal for the too-heavy TT. Or plan on replacing your F-150 with a tow vehicle that has a lot more GVWR (and payload capacity). The marketing gimmick of a "half-ton" towable is a cruel joke, unless your half-ton tow vehicle has a lot more payload capacity than most half-tons. You can maybe pull the so-called half-ton towable TT if you load both truck and trailer with the bare minimum of weight. Do the math, and don't wind up overloaded.

[Jshopes81]

We need more info on the truck. If its the 3100lb payload version then yes its enough truck. You asked 2 seperate questions in your post. Is it powerful enough? Yes. The coyote motor is a really good gasser. It loves to rev too. How will it tow? It will probably get you from point a to point b but how well or even how legally is a different story. We need to know how your truck is equipped as far as gvwr, both gawr, and the payload on the sticker in the door jam.

As far as this forum there is alot of very useful information and there is some stuff thats just absurd as crew pointed out. I have a very small number of members here on ignore because im pretty sure theyre trolls. Someone should be along shortly to tell you that you need a diesel dually to pull that cougar. Just let it go.

[tuffr2]

I towed a 5,500lb trailer with my 2011 F-150 5.0 litre engine. That was a nice combo, it felt good. I would say my 2011 could tow 6,500lbs comfotably. The 2015 was redesigned and is more capable. It has a better frame and lighter body. Just my guess, it should be able to tow 7,500lbs comfortably.

But to be sure check the occupant/cargo capacity on the drivers side door jam. That is how much weight the truck can carry including the WD hitch and the trailer hitch weight plus people, tools, dogs, firewood, bikes, mother-in-law etc.

Agree with those that want a bit more information. The exact trailer model and the cargo capacity of your truck.

[CCrew]

Originally Posted by raineman

Sounds like someone has too small a truck for their trailer and did not like hearing it.

Sounds like you jump to conclusions. I pull a 2018 Keystone Bullet 220RBI w/a 2018 RAM Quad Cab 5.7/3.92's. Blue Ox Sway Pro w/1000lb bars since the trailer by design is hitch heavy. Factory tow control.

RV'ing for 25 years and the 6th rig we've owned. Feel free to find fault with it. And fail.

If it helps you trying wife is 105lbs and we have 180lbs worth of dogs.

[CCrew]

Originally Posted by weredoingit

If it's that bad here why did you join?

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[VernDiesel]

Depending somewhat on gearing it should pull that fine. It will slow some & work pretty good at higher altitude climbing a mountain grade as it’s not a forced induction engine. But so what it’s not a race it will still maintain a respectable pace.

The bigger concern is always stability such as gusts & when semi pass close. Also sway & controlling speed coming down. Your truck has sufficient size suspension & brakes for that trailer but will greatly benefit from proper meets Fords specs setup. In fact the same trailer can go from out of spec unsafe unstable to safe & stable without removing any weight simply by adjusting your WDH & loading. I have taken an overweight “white knuckle ride” to within specs safe & stable tow only by adjusting hitch & loading by scale results.

How do you KNOW you have proper setup? You take it down to the CAT scale. It weighs steer, drive, & TT axles separately at the same time. These give you exactly what you need to know as to if it meets Fords specs and therefore will be safe n stable according to Ford and SAE Society of Engineers.

Far and away the two specs that you have to get in the zone so to speak to know you will have a safe stable tow is in 1 getting your seen on scales tongue in the 10 to 15 percent range. Preferably around 12.5 percent of gross trailer weight.
To find this number when useing a WDH you subtract your unloaded truck weight from your trailer in tow truck weight then divide that number into the gross trailer weight.

And 2 that you have your WDH set so that it replaces your trucks unloaded steer weight. Naturally you have to first know what your trucks unloaded steer weight is so you may need to weigh it seperately.

You will have to adjust your WDH & loading to make this happens as well as Confirm you are not exceeding your drive axle rating. Your scale slips will also show Gross vehicle weight IE actual remaining payload and combined vehicle weight both of which Ford also has a specific to your truck spec for and generally shouldn’t be exceed. BTW I transport TTs for the Mfgs commercially so it is something I speak from a lot of first hand experience with.

CAT normally charges around $12 for the initial weigh & $2 per additional while you are making adjustments & getting your rig to a safe set up for your family as well as to an enjoyable rig to drive. You can download CATs free app for locations & gps directions. Enjoy.

[Rednax]

1). Engine power hasn’t mattered in over a dozen years.

2). Neither has TV brakes.

3). Truck Payload or towing capacity aren’t meaningful. Axle/wheel/tire ratings are the ONLY legal barriers.

4). Travel trailer chassis design trumps most other concerns: fully independent suspension with anti-lock disc brakes is the standard to meet. Convert anything else. The tow vehicle can’t/won’t overcome this basic deficiency.

5). Only travel trailer “shape”
Is more important. The primary cause of loss-of-control accidents will be caused by winds. Natural or man-made. Square box trailers riding high enough for winds to easily pass under, and to gather force along the side sail area, are lousy to tow. Easily overturned.

Pickup trucks are unstable. And worse when towing. Pray nothing ever occurs that causes the steering to be important. And that you’re already below 55-mph.

A travel trailer tow vehicle for the average vacationing family needs to be spec’d for solo use, first. 3X, 4X or 5X as many miles are run solo. That’s the use that matters. What’s worse than a pickup? As no business use pertains and the vehicle is always too nose heavy. You’d genuinely put your family at higher risk of injury or fatality? Since those are the numbers.

Rolls over at speeds where a car or other just spins around. Low speed city accidents.

Handling TW is a function of correct use of a WDH hitch. Same value seen on solo TV Steer Axle as when hitched & tensioned (the starting point). If the pickup shows the same FF-RR imbalance as when solo/empty, it’s hard to achieve good performance.

A 1000-lb TW is easily within range of many cars and SUVs. As you’ll be adding about 300-lbs to each TV axle once correctly hitched.

A pickup is drastically in need of a Hensley-patent hitch. In a class by itself. As the pickup is the likeliest cause of a loss of control accident, not the trailer, “maybe” problems encountered by the TV won’t as badly affect the TT. Tripping hazards a classic example.

In addition, a TUSON electronic trailer-mounted anti-sway device. Belt & suspenders with the Hensley.

Maybe a pickup will stay upright with this help given industry-standard bad trailer design &. equipment. And maybe not. As, what, 99% don’t lash down gear in the bed OR the passenger cab?

Chasing “Payload” and “Tow Capacity” is a fools errand.

Staying upright and lane-centered is the goal. Another perfectly uneventful trip. Spent at speeds below traffic flow. Distinctly below 65-mph.

But with a rig that can do a double emergency lane change at travel speed. No tire leaves the ground.

The TV least likely to achieve this will be a pickup.

Among pickups, then, are differences that matter. 2WD over 4WD. Independent front suspension over straight axle. Rack & pinion Steering over Sector gear. 130” WB versus 160” WB.

That the automakers don’t test half their vehicles for towing means nothing. They didn’t in the 1960s either. But they increasingly included schematics for hitch receivers far better than the OEM or aftermarket provides today.

Body on frame isn’t better. It’s weaker as a vehicle by design, and adds weight where not needed. Pickups are Stone Age design. “Hi, 1938, want your little truck back?” Meant for farmers, ranchers and contractors. Who once were smart enough to leave them at home for family trips.

I guess my favorite is “comfort level”. Panties all twisted up when climbing a Rocky Mountain grade at 25-mph near the summit. So?

If it’ll hit 60-mph on level ground within 30-seconds, it has adequate power. 1968 or 2018. 20-seconds is “fast” for a combined family rig.

Ones “safety” (stability as risk reduction) outweighs all other considerations. Learn what matters. AND WHY.

The new guy experts on RV forums with their 5,10,20 years ain’t at all your friends if a pickup is what they recommend. As it’s all they’ve ever used. And haven’t many clues about setting a WDH either.

Don’t ever bring up “skill” or “habits”. Useful only to a point. And everyone has off days.

The moment it really matters there is no less stable combination than a 4WD pickup with its incorrectly-hitched, leaf-sprung square box travel trailer with drum brakes. Both high center of gravity vehicles.

Either is easily rolled, alone. Together, you’ve life-changing consequences due to willful ignorance and pig-headedness.

Do better.

.

[tuffr2]

The Ford 5.0 litre coyote engine is about the same as the Ram 5.7 litre hemi in power. Actually it is a tiny bit better. There is only one gasoline V8 engine that is a tiny bit better than the coyote 5.0 litre engine and that is the Chevy 6.2 litre engine. You probably can not tell a differece between these 3 V8 engines.

For towing, the only real better half ton engine is the Ford 3.5 Eco-Boost. That is the only engine you might notice a differece.

[Striper05]

Originally Posted by DarrelS

Greetings! My wife and I are preparing to purchase a new Cougar 27 ft travel trailer. We are trading up in to a bigger rig. My question to travel trailer owners is about the tow rig we will be using:
2015 Ford 150 XLS gas V8

Looking for feedback on how well this rig will tow our new Cougar 27ft?

IMHO I would suggest a 3/4 ton just in case...

[Jshopes81]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

The Ford 5.0 litre coyote engine is about the same as the Ram 5.7 litre hemi in power. Actually it is a tiny bit better. There is only one gasoline V8 engine that is a tiny bit better than the coyote 5.0 litre engine and that is the Chevy 6.2 litre engine. You probably can not tell a differece between these 3 V8 engines.

For towing, the only real better half ton engine is the Ford 3.5 Eco-Boost. That is the only engine you might notice a differece.

Im not 1000% sure but i might expect the coyote to run differently than the others. The motor likes to rev so id expect power higher in the rev range. Just something to potentially be aware of.

[tuffr2]

Jshope81 - you are correct. The Coyote engine produces max power at a slightly higher RPM than do either the Chevy 6.2 and Ram 5.7. Both Ram and Chevy use the 5,600 RPM HP while the Ford 5.0 uses 5,750 RPM HP.

But the bottom line the Ford 5.0 litre engine is no slouch. It is a powerful engine and light years ahead of the old Ford Triton 5.4 litre engine.

[Jshopes81]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

Jshope81 - you are correct. The Coyote engine produces max power at a slightly higher RPM than do either the Chevy 6.2 and Ram 5.7. Both Ram and Chevy use the 5,600 RPM HP while the Ford 5.0 uses 5,750 RPM HP.

But the bottom line the Ford 5.0 litre engine is no slouch. It is a powerful engine and light years ahead of the old Ford Triton 5.4 litre engine.

I was simply saying it might drive a little differently. The mustang has a 7000rpm redline. I dont know how different they are, id assume at least the tune, knowing this i would think it likes to be revved more than a 150 rpm redline difference shows. That doesnt show the actual dyno curve.

[tuffr2]

I am a sucker for modern engines. In the mid 90's I was driving the Ford wiz bang 4.6 32 valve engine in a Lincoln Mark 8. My friend had the same engine in a Mustang Cobra.

I like the 4 valve / cylinder engines.

[Jshopes81]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

I am a sucker for modern engines. In the mid 90's I was driving the Ford wiz bang 4.6 32 valve engine in a Lincoln Mark 8. My friend had the same engine in a Mustang Cobra.

I like the 4 valve / cylinder engines.

I much prefer to keep things simple. Kiss will always keep you out of trouble. Fuel injection is the only modern ammenity i feel a need for.