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Old 12-10-2020, 09:54 AM   #141
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Thank you all for your replies. Appreciate it!
The sticker for the tires says load should not exceed 2367 lbs.
The sticker for the truck specs says load should not exceed 10000, GVWR.

So which one can we use? Obviously the tires give us some more wiggle room.
All of the marketing about gross towing capacity then is not very transparent. However, for instance, an increased weight of 100 lbs on the pin translates to a 500 lb load in the rv, more or less, depending on where you put the weight.

I think we will probably take out the tonneau cover and the tool box to lighten up the load.

Thanks for the comparable with the 2007 HD 2500 Chevy. We also have one that is a 2005 Chevy Silverado that we call the Hoss and by now should be "old reliable"!
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Old 12-10-2020, 10:34 AM   #142
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Your math is correct though I'm not sure how your trucks are that heavy; mine is about the heaviest 1 ton you can buy (diesel, QC, 4X4, LB, Dually, 6spd) and the Cummins is heavier than the other diesels and mine is 8338 with me and a full tank of diesel (I'm 200lbs).

In theory you aren't to exceed ANY of the numbers; GVWR, GCWR, GAWR and tire ratings.....in practice many people have exceeded them for years and there is a safety factor as well (the wheels don't fall off at 1lb over GVWR) but I'm NOT suggesting you should ignore the ratings, just pointing it out. For ME, the most important are the tire ratings and GAWR.....I'm LESS worried about payload and GVWR, especially in a 2500HD diesel which tends to place more of its GVW over the front axle. My guess is that you can lighten your load to be within or close to your required pin weight....but only a scale will tell you for sure.

You can get a new 2500HD with a GVWR of 10,650 or a 3500HD SRW with a GVWR of 11,800 which would give you some margin

good luck,
Dave
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Old 12-10-2020, 11:43 AM   #143
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We had a 2005 5er with a GVWR of 18000 lbs. Loaded it was 17856.

All of the kingpin load went on the back of the truck. The truck front axle was 5158 with or without the trailer. The rear axle went from 4850 unloaded to 7495 loaded.

The kingpin weight was 2645. I concluded the low kingpin weight was due to the motorcycles loaded in the toybox and the triaxle configuration.
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Old 12-11-2020, 06:21 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Pelletier View Post
Your math is correct though I'm not sure how your trucks are that heavy; mine is about the heaviest 1 ton you can buy (diesel, QC, 4X4, LB, Dually, 6spd) and the Cummins is heavier than the other diesels and mine is 8338 with me and a full tank of diesel (I'm 200lbs).

In theory you aren't to exceed ANY of the numbers; GVWR, GCWR, GAWR and tire ratings.....in practice many people have exceeded them for years and there is a safety factor as well (the wheels don't fall off at 1lb over GVWR) but I'm NOT suggesting you should ignore the ratings, just pointing it out. For ME, the most important are the tire ratings and GAWR.....I'm LESS worried about payload and GVWR, especially in a 2500HD diesel which tends to place more of its GVW over the front axle. My guess is that you can lighten your load to be within or close to your required pin weight....but only a scale will tell you for sure.

You can get a new 2500HD with a GVWR of 10,650 or a 3500HD SRW with a GVWR of 11,800 which would give you some margin

good luck,
Dave
Yes we thought the same thing about the weight of the truck. We fall within the weight ratings for the tires and the GAWRR. (Pretty proud I can put that acronym down and know what it stands for and what it means!!).
The guy we bought the truck from was towing far more in terms of length than what we want to. I think we will take out the accessories, pack it right and lean, and go from there.
Thanks appreciate the info.
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Old 12-14-2020, 11:13 AM   #145
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CCC

Another question:

Does the truck's CCC include a full tank of gas? In otherwords do I have to take a full tank of gas and include that weight (or subtract that weight from the CCC depending on how you look at it) in my CCC?

Or does the CCC already account for a full tank of gas? If so do I just need to minus weight of occupants, truck bed cargo, and pin weight of RV?

Thanks again,
Jane and Joe Ball
2500 HD 2013 GMC Sierra
2010 FR Surveyor
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Old 12-14-2020, 09:36 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by tennis40luv View Post
Another question:

Does the truck's CCC include a full tank of gas? In otherwords do I have to take a full tank of gas and include that weight (or subtract that weight from the CCC depending on how you look at it) in my CCC?

Or does the CCC already account for a full tank of gas? If so do I just need to minus weight of occupants, truck bed cargo, and pin weight of RV?

Thanks again,
Jane and Joe Ball
2500 HD 2013 GMC Sierra
2010 FR Surveyor
Don’t trust any manufacturer’s data, even the yellow stick on your door jamb.

The best approach is take the truck to a CAT scale, then minus the actual truck weight by your truck GVWR. This is the most accurate CCC.
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Old 12-14-2020, 09:43 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by nicky8668 View Post
Don’t trust any manufacturer’s data, even the yellow stick on your door jamb.

The best approach is take the truck to a CAT scale, then minus the actual truck weight by your truck GVWR. This is the most accurate CCC.

Yes, it does include a full tank, BUT as Nicky said, that yellow sticker value is pretty meaningless once your truck leaves the factory. Anything you've added after the fact will alter it.

Door Jam GVWR - Scaled Truck Weight (fully loaded for camping and with all passengers) = Available Payload for tongue/pin weight*.

*If not on the truck when scaled, don't forget to deduct the hitch weight from this final figure as well
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Old 12-15-2020, 07:46 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tennis40luv View Post
Read this whole thread through. We looked up our specs using a vin decoder. It reads like this:
GVWR 10,000 lbs
GRAWR 6200 lbs
Curb weight 6431 lbs per VIN specs (we weighed at station with full tank of gas and ourselves at 8240 lbs., includes a cover for the bed, 36 gallon tank, bipod,and tool box) (not sure where all the extra weight comes from if diesel weighs 6.8 lbs per gallon, and we weigh a total of 331 lbs. Can't believe the receiver hitch, tool box, and cover can weigh that much of a difference, 8240-576 {our weight plus full tank of gas weight}-6431{their curb weight spec from VIN}=1233 lbs)

So as we understand it that leaves us with a payload of 1760 lbs. left on GVWR

The fifth wheels we are looking at have pin weights of 1868 (Norwood 27-5L) and 1995, Outdoor RV. In addition, when we were looking at the specs from some of the sites suggested it did not look like moving to a 3500, esp in our preferred brand, GMC, would make that much of a difference in GVWR. Help?!!

So we cannot buy the 5th wheels without changing our truck?

Or we have to choose a different 5th wheel? I do not think there is a 5th wheel with a lighter pin weight or rather a pin weight that we would need.

Any advice or comments?

This has taken us the better part of two devoted nights looking at this as well as many conversations previous to this where we could not muster the brain cells to think about it.

The 5er you are looking at is about 11,000# dry and has a GVWR of 13,600# Northwood 27-5L, the DRY pin is 2,246# about 20.5%. Say you pack light and GVW ends up at 12,000#, 20.5% equals 2,400#, now most 5er ride better at about 22% pin, that would be 2,650# putting you close to 1,000# over GVWR.

If going to a new TV, look closely at yellow sticker payload, and GVWR. GMC has had lower GVWR than Ford and Ram over the last few years.
Ram was the GVWR king in SRW from 2013 to 2020 at 11.700# for short bed and 12,300# for long bed and about 4,000# of payload.
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Old 12-15-2020, 09:41 AM   #149
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Thank you for the replies. We will be getting weighed in the near future and we hope that will clarify some of the issues.
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Old 02-05-2021, 12:13 PM   #150
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New Member--Can my truck pull a 5th wheel??

Gentlemen:

Thanks for the add

I am considering upgrading from a TT to a used 5vr. Would you mind looking over my numbers and commenting?

Truck: 98 Ram 2500 QC 2WD, shortbed, automatic (47RE), 5.9L Cummins, 3.55 rear, factory trailer towing pkg w/ air bags, LT265/75/R16 Tires
240,000 Mi.

Off Door Sticker:
GVWR: 8800
GAWR Front:4410
GAWR Rear: 6084

My CAT scale #'s:
Steer Axle: 3800
Drive Axle: 2840
Curb Wt: 6430 (Full Fuel, no passengers )

My Math:

GVWR 8800 minus 6430 curb wt minus 370 for 2 pass. minus 200 for misc stuff in truck minus 200 5th wheel hitch = 1600# Left over for Pin weight
WITH NO SAFETY MARGIN.... and GVWR maxed out.

Using 20% for Pin Weight means a 8000# LOADED 5th wheel?
Using 25% for Pin Weight meaans a 6400# LOADED 5th wheel?

Are these calc's realistic/close?
What are your experienced recommendations? ( and, no, I can't afford a 1 ton truck AND a new to me 5er

Thanks for any thoughts/suggestions. Great Site
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Old 02-05-2021, 01:19 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupaDav View Post
Gentlemen:

Thanks for the add

I am considering upgrading from a TT to a used 5vr. Would you mind looking over my numbers and commenting?

Truck: 98 Ram 2500 QC 2WD, shortbed, automatic (47RE), 5.9L Cummins, 3.55 rear, factory trailer towing pkg w/ air bags, LT265/75/R16 Tires
240,000 Mi.

Off Door Sticker:
GVWR: 8800
GAWR Front:4410
GAWR Rear: 6084

My CAT scale #'s:
Steer Axle: 3800
Drive Axle: 2840
Curb Wt: 6430 (Full Fuel, no passengers )

My Math:

GVWR 8800 minus 6430 curb wt minus 370 for 2 pass. minus 200 for misc stuff in truck minus 200 5th wheel hitch = 1600# Left over for Pin weight
WITH NO SAFETY MARGIN.... and GVWR maxed out.

Using 20% for Pin Weight means a 8000# LOADED 5th wheel?
Using 25% for Pin Weight meaans a 6400# LOADED 5th wheel?

Are these calc's realistic/close?
What are your experienced recommendations? ( and, no, I can't afford a 1 ton truck AND a new to me 5er

Thanks for any thoughts/suggestions. Great Site
Not sure why your weight doesn't match your axle weights?....must have deducted some load.

Anyhow, you look like you have a handle on the math. If you are going to go over, do it with your eyes open.......but that said, I've had the exact same truck and IMO it is much more capable than the numbers would indicate. The cummins is very heavy which deducts from your payload but the weight is all on the front axle. You may only have a payload of 2370 lbs but you have 3244 lbs before reaching your rear GAWR. Also, you could move your "200 lbs of misc. stuff" to the trailer which would help.

I had a Bigfoot 25C9.6 on my 2001 Ram 2500 QC 4x4 Cummins and my GVW was about 10,000 lbs....I drove that rig from Canada to Baja Mexico on everything from I5 to really bad dirt roads without a second thought or issue. I did have custom overloads (campers have a high center of gravity). Of course I'm not recommending that YOU ignore your stickers and I'm the first to tell someone they have an insufficient tow vehicle but in this case, I'd suggest your tow vehicle is more capable than the numbers suggest.

Everyone will chime in that you need to buy a 3500 SRW but the trucks are identical except for the rear spring pack and badging (I have a couple of each)

2 cents,
Dave
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Old 02-05-2021, 03:47 PM   #152
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Dave-

Thanks for the quick and thorough reply, I'm still digesting...
In the meantime I wonder what you thought about the following:
Interesting side note regarding towing specs out of the original “1998 Ram Pickup Owner’s Manual Cummins Turbo Diesel”:
In the “Towing Recommendations” section they list several vehicle setups ie 2500 vs 3500, reg cab vs club cab, manual tranny vs auto, 3.55 vs 4.10 rear end, 4 wd vs 2 wd, etc. with corresponding GVWR’s, GCWR’s, etc.
EVERY 2500 setup they list , whether 4wd vs 2wd, auto vs manual, Reg cab vs Club cab, etc. shows 8800 for a GVWR.
Except for MY SETUP: “2500 HD 4x2 Club Cab, Auto 4 speed OD HD w/3.55 rear” which is listed at 10,500 GVWR
( Even my setup “2500 HD 4x2 Club Cab, Auto 4 speed OD HD" w/4.10 rear is listed at 8800 )
It’s interesting to note that all the 3500 setups they list have a 10,500 GVWR.
Could my listing of a 10,500 GVWR be a misprint?
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Old 07-06-2021, 08:34 AM   #153
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I this link has be OBE. It leads to a list of assisted living homes

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyJC View Post
HERE is another resource developed by iRV2.com member Ken Lenger. It's highly recommended reading for selecting a truck or RV!! At the bottom of the page is an Excel spreadsheet where you can plug in the numbers for your candidate tow vehicle and trailer to ensure that your rig stays within all of the manufacturer's ratings.

Rusty
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Old 07-06-2021, 08:36 AM   #154
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I did not go thru all the posts here, but has anyone ever seen this on-line calculator? Seems pretty interesting

https://www.ajdesigner.com/apptraile...utionhitch.php
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