Towing question

[Rumble]

I'm looking to buy a pop up and pull it with my 2005 Jeep LJ. The jeeps towing capacity is 3,000lbs and the coachman clipper I'm considering has a dry weight of around 1,700lbs. Even with supplies and 2 kids and 2 adults I think we'll be good. I guess my concern is the jeep has a 4 inch lift and I'm worried that somehow that will compromise a safe tow. I intend on getting a drop down hitch to keep it level but still...

Anyone have any experience or opinion on this?

Thanks!

[Skip426]

Welcome to iRV2.
What can I tow is the most asked question here in the forums.
I think your in trouble ; here's what you'll need to do, and why.

The 3,000 lbs towing capacity is with a 150 lb driver only in the Jeep , so ALL weight over 150 lbs in the Jeep has to be deducted from the 3,000.
Load your Jeep with family and take it over the scales , get front and rear axle weights and check them against the ratings on the door sticker .
With a lift kit and bigger tires you may already be at or over GVWR without the tongue weight of the trailer.
JMHO: with the lift kit you should reduce the amount of weight that you tow, ( any drop receiver will change weight towable too) ; even without your family, on board; I can't say if there is a ratio that the lift would reduce capacity, I just don't trust altered vehicles for towing.

[Old-Biscuit]

Pop-up is a good choice

4" lift......then a drop hitch shank is needed so pop-up tongue is roughly 18" above road.

[vsheetz]

What diameter tires do you have and have you regeared? The TJ/LJ 6 cylinder engine is a wonderful powerplant, but does not have a lot of power for towing. If running larger than stock tires regearing will get some of the capability back. Braking is also reduced with the larger tires. If towing an upgrade here should be in the plan as well.

[nosticks]

Pulling it is one thing, getting stopped is another. Also, with a lift kit on your jeep, handling stability is already compromised. As a JK owner I can tell you that you won't be comfortable with the set up you described.

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by Rumble

Anyone have any experience or opinion on this?

Years of experience while two kids were growing up, towing a pop-up that had an 8' floor, an ice box, and lights, but no reefer or stove or electric or gas. We carried a Coleman gasoline stove, lantern, and catalytic heater along with a plastic dishpan and a 5-gallon jug for water. We traveled all over the lower 48, including every mountain range and most National Parks. We got wet only one time, when we had to set up the camper during a heavy rainfall at Sequoia Nat'l park. Not a fancy camper, but it beat the heck out of a tent.

We towed it with a V-8 powered AMC Hornet Sportabout "compact" station wagon for several years, then towed it with an E-150 full-size van for several more years. The Sportabout V-8 was a rare bird - I had to special order it from the factory to get the V-8 drivetrain. The van was also a special order commercial window van with bare floors behind the front seats, but with rear AC and the fanciest interior they offered. I finished the floor by adding plywood, high-density foam and high-dollar plush carpeting behind the front seats, then added matching Captain's chairs back seats from the bone yard. The kids loved traveling in it.

I usually didn't even know the trailer was back there, but then I had the V-8 powertrains. Towing that wet and loaded trailer up the mountain with a 6-cylinder powertrain would probably have been a lot less comfortable.

The Coachmen Clipper is a relatively new model so the factory doesn't have the specs posted yet for most of them. But I found one with GVWR of 2,300 and dry weight of 1760 that is probably close to the one you're looking at:
Coachmen RV - Manufacturer of Travel Trailers - Fifth Wheels - Tent Campers - Motorhomes

That's only 531 pounds for bedding, clothing, pots and pans, food, drinks, water, and anything else you want to haul in the trailer. So pay attention to weights. Don't overload the trailer.

I think you can compensate for the lift by adding a drop ball-mount that results in a level trailer, front to rear. But if you also replaced the stock tires with tall tires and wheels. then you'll also need to re-gear the differentials to get back to the performance you had with stock-size tires.

Trailer tires: Your most likely trouble spot with that trailer is the inadequate stock tires that come with it. The first thing I would do is replace the tires (and wheels if necessary) with tires that have a lot more weight capacity. I'd install the biggest tires that would fit in the wheel-well. That's what I had to do with my pop-up after blowing out three trailer tires.

Enjoy camping with your family. I certainly did.

[user293]

I've come accross two schools of thought about trailer towing and trailer weight.

Many people in this forum support using the GVWR to calculate trailer weight when no GCWR is available.

Other people, long time in pulling RVs support using tow capacity ratings from the owners manual. A GVWR isn't the same as towing capacity, but can be used to determine an approximation.

e.g. My Jeep's OE specifications show it's towing capacity as:

Jeep's OE specifcations:

Max. Gross Trailer Weight Std. _______ 2000 lbs. (900kg)
Optional ________ 5000 lbs. (2250 Kg) - must have auto. trans.

Payload Rating (Includes Occupants & Cargo) ___1150 lbs. (590 kg) Weight Distribution, %F/R ______ 53/4

However my GVWR from the door sticker is 4900 lbs

My jeep's weight without payload is no less than 3,000 lbs and no more then 3,500 lbs. With options I think it is around 3200 lbs.

Using the GVWR @ 3200 lbs my maximum towing capacity should be around ~1700 lbs, without payload. To determine max. trailer weight you would need to use vehicle weight with payload.

unladen weight: 4900 - 3200 = ~1700 lbs.

With 500 lbs payload 4900 - 3700 = ~1200 lbs

Much less than from Jeeps OE specifications sheet.

I think would more likely work from Jeep's tow capacity specifications and also consider the GVWR value from the door sticker. The tow capacity specifications don't have any payload for the capacity ratings which are likely calculated using a zero payload. However the optional max. towing capacity is 5000 lbs with automatic transmission. My Jeep has a auto transmission, HD radiator a 14,500 btu trans cooler, heavier than stock springs and shocks and hd steering stabilizer. (I normally prefer to tow lighter trailers under 2000 lbs. as the Jeep makes a better toad than tow vehicle)

____________

If working from Jeep's specifications I'm able to tow up to 5000 lbs with an auto transmission and possibly additional items such as weight distribution hitch. Jeep's OE tow package included a hd radiator, trans cooler and hd springs.

Weight distribution hitches basically help to offset the tw towards the front of the vehicle producing more stabilized towing.

I once towed a ~2,200 lbs empty cargo trailer and started to noticed very slight differences than when towing @ 2000 lbs and under. (the speeds your travelling and road condition also makes a difference of how a trailer tows) The heavier the trailer at higher freeway speeds the trailer starts to behave differently while on the road. At higher speeds a slight turn of the steering may cause a trailer to start to become un-stabilized. This is not good, possibly means the trailer payload is off-set, not distributed evenly front to rear, side to side, etc.

How To Set Up a CURT Weight Distribution Hitch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnO_9hd5SA0

It's important a trailers payload is evenly distributed from front to rear and there's the right amount of tw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jk9H5AB4lM

[user293]

Googled tow capacity for the LJ is 3,500 lbs, however the tow capacity may very between Wrangler models and options?

I read from a few forums the tow capacity provided by Jeep may differ if there are no trailer brakes.

The 3,500 rating is most likely a maximum tow capacity rating when towing a trailer with brakes.

I'd probably first research from some of the Jeep Wrangler forums.

Wrangler Unlimited (LJ) towing capability - JeepForum.com

[user293]

I may be wrong about the trailer brake requirements. Normally trailer brake requirements are set by the State and local jurisdictions. Each state has it's own trailer tow requirements base on the weight of the trailer. Most if not all also have toad brake requirements based on the toad weight.

Though I have camped in an RV up in the mountains, lowland wilderness and along the ocean. I've mostly have tent camped in the past 60+ years. If not backpacking mostly canvas type tents.

Nylon tents don't normally last long, have more humidity, are less comfortable, easier to maintain are better suited for backpacking.

[77Travco]

Originally Posted by Rumble

I'm looking to buy a pop up and pull it with my 2005 Jeep LJ. The jeeps towing capacity is 3,000lbs and the coachman clipper I'm considering has a dry weight of around 1,700lbs. Even with supplies and 2 kids and 2 adults I think we'll be good. I guess my concern is the jeep has a 4 inch lift and I'm worried that somehow that will compromise a safe tow. I intend on getting a drop down hitch to keep it level but still...

Anyone have any experience or opinion on this?

Thanks!

Lift the popup to match the ride height of the Jeep. I pull a popup offroad and it's nice not to "drag anchor" when on the trails.

[Atom Ant]

I figured I could get by towing our boat with a TJ from the campground to the dock so I thought I would test it - Whoooa! that boat pushed me right through a stop sign and I was smashing the brake pedal to the floor. I didn't have a controller for the brakes (my boat trailer has electric brakes) but thought that would be OK - NOT. If I hooked up the brakes, the rig would be totally dependent upon trailer brakes to survive, which is too much risk for me.

Assuming the pop up won't have trailer brakes (<2,500 lbs), you probably are going to be real disappointed in how it stops.

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by Atom Ant

If I hooked up the brakes, the rig would be totally dependent upon trailer brakes to survive, which is too much risk for me.

(Mod Edit)

Service brakes are designed to stop the weight of the vehicle when loaded to the GVWR of the tow vehicle. Trailers hauling more than a rowboat need trailer brakes, which are designed to stop the weight of the trailer when loaded to the GVWR of the trailer.

(Mod edit)

Assuming the pop up won't have trailer brakes (<2,500 lbs), you probably are going to be real disappointed in how it stops.

Almost all modern pop-up tent camper trailers have brakes. There are 19 models of the Forest River Flagstaff tent trailers and only two do not have brakes.

Originally Posted by Flagstaff

Electric Brakes (Opt. LTD, Std. on all other Series)

(Mod Edit)

[Atom Ant]

Originally Posted by SmokeyWren

(Mod Edit)

Service brakes are designed to stop the weight of the vehicle when loaded to the GVWR of the tow vehicle. Trailers hauling more than a rowboat need trailer brakes, which are designed to stop the weight of the trailer when loaded to the GVWR of the trailer.

Almost all modern pop-up tent camper trailers have brakes. There are 19 models of the Forest River Flagstaff tent trailers and only two do not have brakes.

I guess if we are going all factual and techno here, instead of just lobbing out some trivia - lets get accurate:

I don't quite see where the state laws call out "rowboats" as the criteria for brakes - rather it is weight, and 33 of the states use 3,000 lbs as the threshold. I believe the Coachman Clipper (not Forest River as you use for an example) was quoted as being 1,700 lbs which technically would not be required to have brakes in any state except California, Idaho, Nevada and New York. Even if brakes were provided by the manufacturer (they are on most Coachmans as well), the owner would be under no obligation to install a brake controller and actually use them in any state other than the four listed above.

http://www.towshop.com/trailer_suppl...aking_laws.htm

My only reason for commenting is that I have a Jeep like the OP and I was quite surprised at how quickly it ran out of brakes when pulling the boat to the dock. When towing with the MH or Superduty or Expedition, we don't even notice the brakes on the boat and actually have to test them to make sure they are working.

That was all - Just a friendly input to the OP based on some recent experience. Let those toss stones that have NEVER tried to tow a trailer without brakes when they should have them.

[Rumble]

Thanks for all the input!

Let me clarify a few things.

* The coachman clipper 108st does have trailer breaks.
* I did plan on adding a break controller to the jeep. ( I also have a Subaru Outback 2.5 that is rated for 3,000 lbs and was going to add the controller to too).
* I planned on using a 4 inch drop hitch or lower if needed to keep the trailer level.
* I have regeared the jeep to a 456
* the jeep is a manual transmission

Also, it is a LJ so I have a slightly longer wheel base than a TJ. We live in central Florida and in most cases wouldn't be towing it in any real elevations. I figured if we went further we would use the Subaru. Need to be safe though, this all about the family.