Truthful Payload Article

[move on]

It has always amazed me that pickup truck manufacturers can get away with advertising that their trucks can tow 12,000 pounds, but when you actually get it hitched up to a trailer you find out that it can only safely tow 6000 lbs.

[tuffr2]

Look at the Jayco Eagle 330 RSTS series travel trailers. They are 40' long and have a GVWR of 11,995lbs. So any half ton truck that can tow 12,000lbs would be good right??

That is so wrong. Those trailers need a dually truck. I am not sure any SRW 350/3500 can tow that trailer.

[mistercee]

In my couple of short years of truck ownership and RV towing I've learned a lot. One thing I've noticed is that those that lob bombs at the weight police are most often (not always) those that are towing overweight and want to justify their choices. They have a tire and rim that can carry 3500 lbs and a rear axle that can handle 6K, so they think nothing of dropping 3100 pounds of pin weight in a truck with a payload of 2300 lbs. IMHO, you cannot pick and choose what ratings you wish to follow and call it good. You are only in compliance when you are within the prescribed rating for the weakest link in the chain. I might be naive, but I think the engineers put rating stamps on for a reason and I'll take my cue from them.

You can follow safe towing guidelines with regards to weight or not, it's up to you. I just don't see the need to rip on posts that try to educate people, especially those that may not have a clue on towing safely.

[RVnAggie]

thanks to the OP for sharing the link and helping educate others so they can make informed decisions. Couldn’t help but share a few thoughts on this....

I don’t actually have an official weight police badge, so I can’t write any overweight tickets that some folks that might need one, but I do have an engineering degree and thus was able to learn a bit about design principles, material fatigue due to repetitive loading, and the physics that apply to over 20,000 lbs traveling at various speeds. I also work with enough attorneys on a nearly daily basis to know why one might occasionally need to consider legal risks, but all the above is really irrelevant.

I’ve owned and pulled 5th wheels since 2003 and currently pull a 40 footer that weighs 15k+ with just over 3200 lbs of pin weight per scales. The current tow mule is a 2019 F350 DRW. The 5er was purchased in 2016, a couple months after purchasing a new 2016 F250 so we could start trailer shopping. Of course the guy with the engineering degree considered towing capacity, GVWR’s, GCWR, RAWR....all good on the F250 for the size range of trailers I would be considering. So after pulling said 5er for 3 years, it was only after getting caught in extremely high winds on I-40 in New Mexico where at least one travel trailer I personally witnessed and several 18 wheelers were blown over, that I decided we needed a dually (a truck with training wheels.)

This event was also shortly after a good friend (also an engineer, and better one) had bought a 42 footer and a new F350 DRW tow vehicle. Only after talking with him during my new truck search did I learn that my engineer self had completely failed to consider the payload/max cargo rating of the prior F250 in all my seemingly over-analysis at the time of purchasing the 5er.

After upgrading to the F350, getting a “bigger” driver’s license (Class A Exempt) to be fully legal, and weighing the rig out of curiosity, only then did I realize I had worn the legal risk of being considerably overloaded in one regard for 3 years. Essentially, my 5er was well beyond the cargo capacity of the F250 the day we left the dealership before even putting a single can of beans in it. Of course I added air bags two weeks later and leveled it up so it looked fine and rode fine.....until I pulled the same trailer with the F350 for the first time.

in short, there is NO comparison to the feel of the trucks pulling the same trailer. Of course the training wheels make the dually more stable, that’s a given, but in addition, the overall ride and handling is much more comfortable. I have bigger brake assemblies, more ground contact and can attest to a significant improvement in breaking and stopping distance, absolutely no payload concerns at all, and I’ve eliminated any unwarranted legal risk due to non-compliant weight concerns. Truth is, I didn’t know what I didn’t know until the upgrade to the F350. Had I been completely thorough in my considerations initially, I would not have been “under-sized and over-risked” for 3 years of towing across 9-10 states.

The moral of this lengthy personal story is while we all have different driving habits, different risk tolerances, different levels of experience, etc., etc., one should allow themselves, and encourage others, to be educated. For those that do and then choose to stay within ALL their tow vehicle’s capacities, it’s a fact that the inherent level of safety and risk mitigation “built into the combination” of truck and trailer will improve as will peace of mind when traveling.

Happy Trails,

[CharlesinGA]

Originally Posted by RVnAggie

thanks to the OP for sharing the link and helping educate others so they can make informed decisions. Couldn’t help but share a few thoughts on this....

Snip............................

The moral of this lengthy personal story is while we all have different driving habits, different risk tolerances, different levels of experience, etc., etc., one should allow themselves, and encourage others, to be educated. For those that do and then choose to stay within ALL their tow vehicle’s capacities, it’s a fact that the inherent level of safety and risk mitigation “built into the combination” of truck and trailer will improve as will peace of mind when traveling.

Happy Trails,

Oh so well written............. Thank You!

Charles

[Jshopes81]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...14pwfRYf71Z1C1

Ford says youve got the same brakes as a 250, fyi. You also went from a 17yo platform to a clean sheet design.

[RVnAggie]

Originally Posted by Jshopes81

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...14pwfRYf71Z1C1

Ford says youve got the same brakes as a 250, fyi. You also went from a 17yo platform to a clean sheet design.

Yessir, significant design changes from ‘16 to ‘19.
Regarding the brake info...
From 1999-2016, the F250 & F350 SRW had the same brakes but different on the F350 DRW....same rotor dia, but larger calipers/pads thus “bigger” in terms of sq in of contact surface and better braking ability. Haven’t confirmed almost certain the same is true for the 2017+ trucks.

Regardless, the fact remains the F350 DRW (required to achieve ALL manner of sticker compliance in my case) vs F250 in same model year, results in an inherently safer combination.

[JIMNLIN]

Originally Posted by move on

It has always amazed me that pickup truck manufacturers can get away with advertising that their trucks can tow 12,000 pounds, but when you actually get it hitched up to a trailer you find out that it can only safely tow 6000 lbs.

Truck mfg tow ratings include all types of trailers.....not just RVs
Yes some 12000 lb trailers can be towed with a proper 1/2 ton truck like Fords F150HDPP or older GM 1500 HD.
Trailer like my GN/bumper pull flatdecks or stock trailers can be loaded to achieve needed hitch weight.

The clicky may work for someone just looking to pull a RV trailer but the rest of us that may need a truck for work purposes (pulling non rv trailers) we don't use that type of info.

What we look for in lets say a 3/4 ton diesel truck is one with the biggest RAWR numbers which will be carrying all the hitch load plus gear in the bed. GVWR or payload sticker numbers aren't used to determine a overloaded truck or the trailer. Truck or trailer mfg can choose any GVWR they want up to and including the sum of the vehicles axle ratings which is one reason dot uses GAWRs on these size trucks.

Having hauled legally/safely per DOT for over a million miles and vehicle mfg requirements for a living I don't care if some want to use the trucks GVWR....or the payload sticker if they think the truck is overloaded above that number no one is going to think badly of you for your decision to use those numbers.

But I see no reason to belittle those that understand which trucks ratings are the most important from a safety/legal standpoint.....and which numbers aren't.

[Jshopes81]

Originally Posted by JIMNLIN

Truck mfg tow ratings include all types of trailers.....not just RVs
Yes some 12000 lb trailers can be towed with a proper 1/2 ton truck like Fords F150HDPP or older GM 1500 HD.
Trailer like my GN/bumper pull flatdecks or stock trailers can be loaded to achieve needed hitch weight.

The clicky may work for someone just looking to pull a RV trailer but the rest of us that may need a truck for work purposes (pulling non rv trailers) we don't use that type of info.

What we look for in lets say a 3/4 ton diesel truck is one with the biggest RAWR numbers which will be carrying all the hitch load plus gear in the bed. GVWR or payload sticker numbers aren't used to determine a overloaded truck or the trailer. Truck or trailer mfg can choose any GVWR they want up to and including the sum of the vehicles axle ratings which is one reason dot uses GAWRs on these size trucks.

Having hauled legally/safely per DOT for over a million miles and vehicle mfg requirements for a living I don't care if some want to use the trucks GVWR....or the payload sticker if they think the truck is overloaded above that number no one is going to think badly of you for your decision to use those numbers.

But I see no reason to belittle those that understand which trucks ratings are the most important from a safety/legal standpoint.....and which numbers aren't.

Legal and safe arent always the same thing. Im well under on my axle weights but i smoke fords gcwr warranty number so i am legal. Im safe because of my driving practices. A log splitter behind a 1 ton dump can be dangerous in the wrong hands.

[tuffr2]

Agree, lots of different types of trailers with an RV being the most difficult to tow. If you look at a flat bed gooseneck trailer you will often see a track hoe sitting right over the axles of the trailer and not on the truck. These types of trailers require the towing specs.

Opposite a flat bed gooseneck trailer is a 5th wheel. A 5th wheel you have a lot of weight sitting on the truck. Plus big high flat sides that is difficult to pull through the air.

Travel trailers (bumper pull) are also very though to tow and control. People look at the towing spec of 10,000lbs and think they mean an RV when the manufacturer is thinking flat bed trailer.

[sirtate]

Originally Posted by Jshopes81

Legal and safe arent always the same thing. Im well under on my axle weights but i smoke fords gcwr warranty number so i am legal. Im safe because of my driving practices. A log splitter behind a 1 ton dump can be dangerous in the wrong hands.

Truth...

Someone running at the 'no more than 50%' rule with a 1 second following distance in heavy traffic, or riding the brakes down a 6% grade, isn't 'Safe[emoji2400]'...

My kids always tease me about how I drive like an 80yo man when I have a trailer... Geez, Dad! Why do you have to go 50mph down this hill?
(I then explain snubbing off speed, and the math behind it, again. They roll their eyes)

I've spent millions of miles behind the wheel of 18wheelers. After I got scared a few times in the Canadian Rockies (and on i15 heading north into Vegas) I remembered snubbing...

Do I do 75mph towing? No.
It causes 30% more heat to go into your brakes over 65mph, the heat that could cause brake fade...
Plus; it burns more fuel, that's expensive...
Plus+1; I'm on vacation! (65 adds 30mins to a typical day....the beer will still be cold when you get there!)

But, the weight police will tell me I'm unsafe...

[ardvark16]

It was a great article that most people really should read. There are plenty of overloaded rv’s on the road. Many of the drivers are clearly not on these forums and do not know anything about weights. When I picked up my new 5th wheel there was a family there picking up a 38 foot travel trailer with a Ram 1500. The family was large and had a dog and the truck was almost dragging the trailer. The dealer let them go just like that too. I also saw a Ford F-250 this past week towing a Cedar Creek 360rl. Safety is not a “feeling”, it’s a practice and involves guidelines and actions. Some people “feel” like they know better than they do. This article is merely showing people that their assumptions about their 1/2 ton being a mighty tow vehicle might be a bit off and that there is more to snatching a camper than just buying it and dragging it to a site.

[JIMNLIN]

Legal and safe arent always the same thing. Im well under on my axle weights but i smoke fords gcwr warranty number so i am legal. Im safe because of my driving practices. A log splitter behind a 1 ton dump can be dangerous in the wrong hands.

My statement was pointed the claim being over a GVWR or a payload sticker isn't safe. Being under the trucks GAWR ensures the truck has plenty of brakes/suspension/tire and wheel capacities/truck frames to carry the load.

But I see your point on a Home Depot log splitter behind a dump truck comment.

[Jshopes81]

Originally Posted by JIMNLIN

My statement was pointed the claim being over a GVWR or a payload sticker isn't safe. Being under the trucks GAWR ensures the truck has plenty of brakes/suspension/tire and wheel capacities/truck frames to carry the load.

But I see your point on a Home Depot log splitter behind a dump truck comment.

I agree with you fully regarding what makes things legal. Ive done my homework in several states and they all confirm the same thing about axle weights and registered weight. Im not a megamile driver, but ive got a class a cdl and a couple hundred thousand safe miles logged as well as many weigh stations and rsi checkpoints. Ive been around a little anyway. Whats legal is very cut and dry. Whats safe, on the other hand, is up to the individual driver and how they conduct themselves on the road. Weve got a few members on here pulling their 5th wheels with semis. Id sure say theyre legal for the load, just like theyd be with a 1 ton in most cases, but having never seen their driving, i cant comment as to how "safe" they are.