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Old 05-08-2021, 08:53 PM   #1
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Truthful Payload Article

I've been RVing for 20+ years and have been hanging out on these message boards pretty much that whole time. Payload, GVWR, salesman promises, etc, etc, etc. have all been going around that whole time. I honestly don't ever remember reading a single article like this one:

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/dont-as...an-tow-camper/

This should be a required handout from any and all trailer salesman to potential consumers. And it's not even that the article is perfect or complete with all relevant information. It just opens the door for Joe-consumer to realize what he might not be considering.
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Old 05-08-2021, 09:09 PM   #2
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Be really useful, but you have to assume that the truck salesman can read. ha ha ha

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Old 05-09-2021, 07:18 AM   #3
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Its the same drivel the weight police like to use. Gvwr and gcwr are registration and warranty numbers. Period.
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Old 05-09-2021, 08:02 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Jshopes81 View Post
Its the same drivel the weight police like to use. Gvwr and gcwr are registration and warranty numbers. Period.
Yup...
Gross Axle Weights are all that matter to the engineers...

A bearing doesn't know how much weight is carried by the other bearings on the vehicle...
Nor does it care...

The weight police should also be all-up-and-over left/right balance too, if they knew all of it...
(What?! You've got 60% of the weight on the left side?! Danger! Danger!)

The Gross Weight numbers, either Single vehicle or combined are just there for the lawyers to weasel out of responsibility... (And taxation purposes when it's on a registration form)

Interesting exercise; check out the rules in your State/Province and discover how they change from 'light duty' to Medium Duty... This occurs at 6500# to 7100# in most areas...

You'll find that if the tow vehicle is registered under that magic number, GCVWR is left blank on that registration...
There is NO gross weight number!

Only axle weights are looked at..
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Old 05-09-2021, 01:06 PM   #5
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Its the same drivel the weight police like to use. Gvwr and gcwr are registration and warranty numbers. Period.
No, it's an article educating people on pairing a truck to a trailer. You can choose to make it into another fight but could we maybe take a thread off from that?
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Old 05-09-2021, 04:23 PM   #6
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No, it's an article educating people on pairing a truck to a trailer. You can choose to make it into another fight but could we maybe take a thread off from that?
Id love for the weight police to stop posting nonsense, se yes, please take the thread off from drivel and bs unless its going to be titled how to stay in warranty and under registration. Ill gladly stay out of that thread.
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Old 05-09-2021, 05:28 PM   #7
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Id love for the weight police to stop posting nonsense, se yes, please take the thread off from drivel and bs unless its going to be titled how to stay in warranty and under registration. Ill gladly stay out of that thread.
Just to be clear, I agree with you about axle weights being what matters (hence the caveat in my OP that the article isn't perfect). My point is that the way towing information is presented to consumers (via ads splashing a single number and/or from a money grubbing salesman) is borderline fraudulent.

Far too often people come in here AFTER buying a truck only to realize it isn't nearly as capable as they thought. Ads usually just focus in "tow rating" which has almost nothing to do with GVWR or FAWR/RAWR.

I'm really not beating the drum as the weight police or even in the name of safety. It's more of a consumer protection/education thing.
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Old 05-09-2021, 05:55 PM   #8
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Just to be clear, I agree with you about axle weights being what matters (hence the caveat in my OP that the article isn't perfect). My point is that the way towing information is presented to consumers (via ads splashing a single number and/or from a money grubbing salesman) is borderline fraudulent.

Far too often people come in here AFTER buying a truck only to realize it isn't nearly as capable as they thought. Ads usually just focus in "tow rating" which has almost nothing to do with GVWR or FAWR/RAWR.

I'm really not beating the drum as the weight police or even in the name of safety. It's more of a consumer protection/education thing.
I agree with you on that. Theres just so many variations on these numbers. Youve got your registration numbers, your warranty numbers, your numbers that can get you fined or the combination of which, and then theres the numbers that each individual person feels safe at. I know my tow vehicle, but im well over on fords numbers, but under on axles, tires, and registered gvwr. Just because i feel perfectly safe pulling my camper, doesnt mean anyone else will.
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Old 05-09-2021, 06:15 PM   #9
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It was a good article for an introduction but it was just that, an introduction. There were some glaring omissions, axle capacity, and errors, curb weight on VIN sticker, (maybe that's new recently) that left a fair amount to be desired. With just a little more information it could have been a great article.
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Old 05-09-2021, 06:16 PM   #10
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Yikes. These forums are turning to pure junk. No need to flame or lob silly insults is there? I mean I guess you can but itís not constructive. I agree that people should tow safely. I also agree that most salesman want the sale. Thatís where their interests are. But to say that the only thing that matters to an engineer is the axles. Really?!?! You clearly arenít an engineer or a person who works with heavy equipment. Or you do and are a danger to those around you. Things are made to be safe because of people who have zero regard for engineering and actual safety. Just look at yer axles and yer fine bub! All that engineering crap is fer the college boys! Just because you did it, that donít mean itís safe. Thatís called anecdotal evidence.
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Old 05-09-2021, 07:33 PM   #11
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Someone needs to take a minute and reread the posts in order and understand whats being said and diving off the deep end.
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Old 05-09-2021, 07:44 PM   #12
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Old 05-09-2021, 07:54 PM   #13
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I care about safety for my family and I as well as those around me, strangers or not. Secondarily, I care about financials particularly liability and risk from sue happy people that watch and listen to too many lawyer commercials about striking it rich. I donít think Iím labeled as weight police or as smarter than the engineer. Iím probably somewhere in between I guess. I am trying to be more active on these forums to help fellow RVíers out to make sound decisions, doing it right the first time and being safe for everyone out there on the road. We have a lot of new people into RVíing right now.

Pay attention to tire ratings above all else. Itís easy to get lost in all the ratings but this is clearly labeled on tire sidewalls and you can easily weigh your rear axle loaded up for travel with the trailer attached. If you think youíre close to being overweight get to the scales. Many have pointed out before this is usually the weakest link and I have leaned from it. Manufacturers may de-rate their axles based on OEM wheel/tires so please donít think you can go above the OEM manufacturers rear axle rating just because you happen to know the Dana or AAM axle is really rated higher!! I really, really wanted to make my SRW work but I knew no tires would get me there with a 3,800 lb pin weight plus a 50 gallon bed mounted transfer tank. I would have been over by several hundred lbs on the tires. I changed to a dually. I see people all the time doing it so thereís certainly some safety factor as tires arenít exploding left and right but as I stated I donít want the risk to life or financially.

I have learned a lot in these forums both when I had my diesel pusher and now my 5th wheel. Please try to keep conversations constructive and help out fellow RVíers!
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Old 05-10-2021, 11:09 AM   #14
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I am thinking back to when I was a stupid kid. Early 20's a salesman told me this truck will tow your boat. I believed him and bought the truck. That truck did not tow the boat very well. 4 months later I had a bigger more powerful truck.

Thinking back that was the only time I bought a truck too small.

I had a Honda Ridgeline that I had a few years before I bought a travel trailer that was too big for the Ridgeline but I knew that before hand. The Ridgeline was bought to tow my boat which it did ok.
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