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BradS7535 · 03-10-2021, 05:34 PM

New member who has been browsing the forums and grateful for all the useful info that everyone has posted. But my brain hurts trying to figure out what I should do. I'll try to keep it short (easier said than done for me).

Current TV:
2017 Expedition EL Limited (with tow package) so has 9200# tow rating and 920# tongue weight limit.
Door tag says payload capacity is 1437#
GVWR says 7520#

Current TT:
2006 Trailmanor 2720

We have no problem towing the Trailmanor, never tow with water.

Camping Style:
Family of 4 (2 young children) and we mostly visit state and national parks. We "boondock" as in never really use hookup sites. We go usually for a few days at a time and haven't gone further than 400 miles from home. We aren't planning on doing any "back roads" camping.

We have decided that we would like to upgrade to a full TT that we don't have to open/close. We love the Trailmanor, but the benefits are really only in storage and ease of towing. We (believe) we can tow something bigger and we don't have an issue with storage.

So here is where my brain starts to hurt. We want a TT with bunk beds and a permanent queen bed. We don't want to be setting up/taking down a dinette or anything else for the extra sleeping. We want a QUALITY TT that will last. I know that every brand has issues, but from our research there are some brands that are just built better than others.

We have narrowed our search down to perhaps a few brands/models but having trouble with the quality vs what we can realistically tow problem.

1st choice:
Outdoors RV Creekside 21DBS - From what I've found the ORV are very well built units. Perhaps they are more than we will ever need with their suspension, 4 season weather package etc. Like I mentioned above we are just doing state/national parks, don't plan on any off-roading or camping in the snow or extreme heat. Even if these trailers are designed for more than we will ever use them for we love the floorplan, features and seemingly their build quality. The issue is, unfortunately, weight. Due to their construction they are tongue heavy. I understand that our 3.5L ecoboost has the power to pull it, but our limiting factor is the payload capacity. The Creekside 21DBS states a max trailer weight of 8250# and using the 12% rule I've seen other state that puts tongue weight at 990#. Since we aren't camping for long periods of time and we (think) we pack fairly lightly I'm not sure if our tongue weight would be lower. We don't mind towing with no water and filling up at the campground to make towing easier.

2nd Choice:
Lance 2185 - Based on my research Lance also makes a quality trailer. We don't like the bunks as much on the Lance, but the GVWR of this unit is 7000#, so feel like this would fit our towing capability better. (Interestingly, the Lance shows a higher dry tongue weight than the ORV, but as people have stated, can't really go by advertised weights).

3rd Choice:
Lance 2445 - We like this layout better, but it is a much longer trailer than the 21DBS and 2185. With a GVWR of 7600# this, on paper, maxes out our tongue weight.

Another brand we have been looking at is Grand Design, but something about a slide out kitchen (and all the pluming/electrical) just rubs me the wrong way from a quality/durability perspective.

So, I said I would try to keep it short, and I've failed. Essentially we would love to go with the 21DBS, but I'm worried about the towing. I don't tow faster than 63MPH.

Hoping to get any other brands that we should look at with the understanding that we are willing to pay more for better build quality. If $$$ wasn't a problem what brand/models do you think would fit our current TV?

nicky8668 · 03-10-2021, 06:33 PM

These are pretty heavy trailers for the TV. After tongue and WDH, you’ll only have less than 500 lbs for all four of you and anything else in the vehicle. The TV has decent wheelbase and 3.5T is a powerful motor. You are limited by your payload here.

BradS7535 · 03-10-2021, 07:23 PM

Yeah, that's what I've been struggling with.

I guess the basic question of my post is: Based on our current TV, what is the best quality brand with a bunkhouse should we look at?

Outdoors - Too heavy
Lance - Still probably too heavy
Grand Design - Comparable weight to Lance
___________ - What is the next step down? Again, looking for the best quality that $$$ can buy (with the understanding that quality is mostly subjective).

nicky8668 · 03-10-2021, 07:50 PM

GD has some entry level bunkhouse around 5-6000 lbs gvwr, their quality are decent but not as good as Lance and ORV or high end GD trailers.

Or you can go the other route, light and cheap. 1/2 of the ORV weight and 1/3 of the price. Not a problem as long as you don’t plan to full time.

BradS7535 · 03-10-2021, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicky8668

GD has some entry level bunkhouse around 5-6000 lbs gvwr

Haven't seen them. Checked their site and lightest I see is the Imagine XLS 21BHE @ GVWR 6,395#. Am I missing some?

nicky8668 · 03-10-2021, 09:04 PM

Yeah. You are right. They are not that light either. What about winnebago minnie micro 2100bh? It’s 5500 lbs gvwr bunkhouse. It may not work if you boondocks a lot, it only has a 31 gal tank.

bneukam · 03-10-2021, 09:30 PM

Prefer trailers that are fully insulated with foam board construction.
We love our Lance, but I would also consider Rockwood/Flagstaff models as they are also fully insulated with a vacuum bonded foam board roof.

Desert Flyer · 03-11-2021, 10:12 PM

I believe you are limited by your receiver hitch’s 920-lb rating. 920 lbs minus 100 for WD hitch leaves 820 lbs available. Divide by 12.5% equals 6,560 lbs. Hence, your max TT loaded weight (including all options and cargo) is 6,560 lbs. This is inline with many 1/2 ton trucks, which Expy is based on, where the good folks here would not pull more than about 6,500 lbs or maybe just maybe up to 7,000.

TXiceman · 03-12-2021, 08:21 AM

Your tongue weight when loaded will be close to 12% (+/-) of the trailers GVWR. Take that awayy from your paylaod capacity and that is whet you have left for cargo and passengers. Payload, rear axle limits and tire limits will limit you before you reach the maximum towing capacity.

Ken

BradS7535 · 03-12-2021, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXiceman

Your tongue weight when loaded will be close to 12% (+/-) of the trailers GVWR.

I have seen this assumption before and I'm wondering if this is just an "easy" way to quickly size a TT to a TV or a more accurate way to determine actual tongue weight vs just using the manufacturer's published weights. We are light packers and only go camping for a few days at a time so we would be nowhere near the GVWR of the trailer.

Dave Pelletier · 03-12-2021, 09:05 AM

you're pushing the limits of your tow vehicle with any of those choices. Keep the weight as low as you can.....GVWR closer to 6,000lbs if possible. I love my ORV but they are heavy and you can expect the tongue weight to be significantly more than the advertised dry weight.

2 cents,
Dave

Dave Pelletier · 03-12-2021, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradS7535

I have seen this assumption before and I'm wondering if this is just an "easy" way to quickly size a TT to a TV or a more accurate way to determine actual tongue weight vs just using the manufacturer's published weights. We are light packers and only go camping for a few days at a time so we would be nowhere near the GVWR of the trailer.

Actual tongue weight should be a minimum of 12% and many are closer to 15%. Using the GVWR is wise but whatever you do, don't use the dry weight. The dry tongue weight of my 21RBS is around 600 lbs but actual weights (measured by 3 different owners) are around 1,000lbs. .....you will be carrying batteries (at least two 6V if you are boondocking) and propane plus the only outside storage is right at the front.

Do yourself a favor and don't convince yourself you can tow more trailer than you really can; you just set yourself up for disappointment or worse.

2 cents,
Dave

swavescatter · 03-12-2021, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradS7535

I have seen this assumption before and I'm wondering if this is just an "easy" way to quickly size a TT to a TV or a more accurate way to determine actual tongue weight vs just using the manufacturer's published weights. We are light packers and only go camping for a few days at a time so we would be nowhere near the GVWR of the trailer.

Something has to give. You don't want to max out the trailer, but seem willing to max out your tow vehicle. That's backwards logic in my mind.

Nicer trailers = heavier. If you're not willing to upgrade your tow vehicle to an HD truck, then lower your trailer expectations if you want a safe and calm towing experience.

There are really nice Winnebago/Jayco/Rockwood campers below 6k lbs.

BradS7535 · 03-12-2021, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swavescatter

You don't want to max out the trailer, but seem willing to max out your tow vehicle.

It's not that I don't want to max out the trailer, I was just trying to get a slightly more realistic idea of weights. Obviously I would be below my weights if I just went to the dealer and picked up a dry trailer. Clearly a dry trailer isn't going to do much good. If I fill up propane and put batteries now it is functional and possibly still under my TV limits.

I was simply stating that we are not heavy packers, camping for weeks on end. Only a few nights each outing so I was figuring that my actual trailer weight would be well below the GVWR of the trailer, and thus POSSIBLY within my TV limits.

Regardless, I think we are probably considering upgrading to an F150 with the Heavy Duty Payload Package and that should be sufficient for the ORV 21DBS.