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Old 10-20-2021, 11:46 AM   #1
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Upcoming GM gas HD updates

Quite a good forum, appreciate all the real world info....

Been evaluating moving from my old diesel truck to a modern gas HD one. Yes, fully realize a gas truck is not on par with heavier towing and efficiency.

It's not about money on why choosing gas, it's about reliability (speaking to emissions sensitivities) and potentially using in some short duration trips around town too, should it ever become more of a DD too instead of just towing. Currently my old cummins is used for towing only, as we have other vehicles that serve driving around town, etc.

Gas just makes more sense at the moment in my use case, even if taking a penalty in general ease of towing and all, including the benefits of an exhaust brake, etc.

Been waiting for GM to release an updated trans on their HD gas now, the likes of potentially using a less HD version of the allison branded diesel one they use now. Seems that might happen in the 2022.5 or 2023 release, this way I can get better efficiency and towing characteristics for that matter. I only tow up to 10k or so now, but strong chance it will be around 11-12.5k dry within the coming years. Apparently, new interior from the 2022 1500's are going into the HD's too, well believe so anyhow.

With all that said, does anyone know if the 6.6L gas engine is also likely getting a power bump as well? That would also be ideal.

Note: Never really been a GM truck guy, mostly Dodge and some Ford...when it comes to HD units. Only thing is, Dodge doesn't offer a double cab so I can get a shorter overall length when used with a long bed (I prefer that with towing 5ers), and they have the MDS system which I'm not a fan of (yes I know you can disable it each time you drive it). Ford, haven't liked the issues they were facing with the newer 10 speed trans and axles issues with recalls and all, not cool.... can't get a double cab either, only a super cab, which is not as ideal. Seems like even if the GM is the underdog in some ways, might make most sense for my usage and requirements.
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Old 10-20-2021, 12:47 PM   #2
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I would not take the Ford 7.3 Godzilla off the table. That truck seems to have more going for it than the GM truck. It comes with a 10 speed transmission and has more power.

I test drive the 2020 GM 6.6 gas truck and liked it. Nice and quiet and seemed powerful enough. It was 'better' I think than my 2017 F-250 6.2 gas truck.

There is a YouTube video of a guy that had the old 6.0 and now has the 2020 6.6 gas truck. I think he was towing 8,000lbs in the Rocky Mountains and he explains the faster speeds and the coolant temperature improvements on the 6.6 gas engine.

So in a nut shell - the 6.6 gas truck is way better than the 6.0 gas truck. But the 6.6 gas truck can be easily improved by putting the 10 speed transmission in it. A little boost in power would be icing on the cake.

Oh, new improved interiors are also coming.
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Old 10-20-2021, 01:00 PM   #3
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Here is that video with the elevation gain of 4,500 feet or more.

https://youtu.be/PVd7p91rBjc
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Old 10-20-2021, 01:45 PM   #4
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[QUOTE=ryboj;5956674 they have the MDS system which I'm not a fan of (yes I know you can disable it each time you drive it)[/QUOTE]

I'm curious what you don't like about MDS. This feature seems to be coming back now. I see Ford is using it in their new 5.0 V-8. If it saves fuel it can't be all bad.

Also I see that variable valve timing is now coming into larger engines. This should also save quite a bit of fuel.
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Old 10-20-2021, 02:07 PM   #5
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Also, I live around 5k elevation, so having optimal setups does help tremendously. If I lived closer to sea level with very few hills (think FL as example), I would just grab an older alternative truck, even if less power and gears).

tuffr2: I like the 7.3 engine, since it's simple, quite powerful out of the gate, and non direct injected. Just not loving some of the larger drivetrain recalls they've had on the trans and the axles. The rest is pretty good. Price point hurts some too, comparatively speaking. I do like the potential of the 6.6 gas GM engine....I just think it needs a bump in power, coupled with the additional gears in the trans (I'd prefer an 8 speed gas\diesel trans but 10 is the number GM and Ford use obviously), so you don't get the wild swings in RPM and power is put down more effectively throughout, just makes for nicer towing experience too. Thanks for sharing that info.

move on: Yes, saving fuel is not a bad thing in this world we live in, I just don't want to create additional complexity and loss in reliability in having it. From the endless research I've done on the topic (being I'm looking for a reliable as possible HD gas unit), the MDS system is known for not being as robust as the non MDS setups, lifters esp. These engines don't like long idle times, with more wear on the lifters and cams because of various reasons (lots of debate on that point, so won't go into it) and also require higher spec engine oil and more aggressive changes. Still some reports of lifter and cam failures well before 100k and majority occurring, if and when they do, around 110-120k or so. Believe they've been having MDS lifter and cam failure issues since like 2014 or before? Can't recall. They just don't want to correct it, and maybe because of the work gained outside warranty coverage, hard to say exactly in this day and age of bean counters and corp greed.

Yes, VVT works quite well these days, no issues with that and has been around a while and works great. Fairly proven out at this point.
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Old 10-20-2021, 02:26 PM   #6
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I too do not like the complexity of MDS. I read that for some reason the GM engine uses more oil. I think it is just the nature of MDS and Ford will have the same issue.
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Old 10-20-2021, 02:26 PM   #7
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It sounds to me like there have been some development problems with MDS but there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the concept. Maybe those problems have been overcome.

I'm waiting for camless engines to come out. That will be the ultimate new development in ICEs.
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Old 10-20-2021, 02:51 PM   #8
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I too do not like the complexity of MDS. I read that for some reason the GM engine uses more oil. I think it is just the nature of MDS and Ford will have the same issue.
Yeah, agree on the MDS. What's funny, they don't use MDS on the 4500 and up Ram HD's to what I've seen, only the 2500 and 3500 6.4's. Reason being, makes no practical sense on a true HD truck, in commercial usage. Again, another reason I don't want or need the little gremlin myself. Ford doesn't use MDS in their HDs, nor does GM, and I love that.

Didn't know much about the oil consumption on the 6.6 gas, will definitely have to check into that one, thanks for sharing.
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Old 10-20-2021, 02:53 PM   #9
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It sounds to me like there have been some development problems with MDS but there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the concept. Maybe those problems have been overcome.

I'm waiting for camless engines to come out. That will be the ultimate new development in ICEs.
Yes, for sure. Also not a fan of the auto stop start action the smaller engine setups use in the half tons and so forth. Just not something I enjoy dealing with, in the real world. Whether it being the AC dropping temp in those moments, to some delay. Or the jerkiness with the GM setups with their cylinder deactivations....let alone the trans not knowing what to do.

Camless engines, interesting, for sure. Will have to wait and see how that develops out.....
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Old 10-20-2021, 03:20 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by ryboj View Post
Yes, for sure. Also not a fan of the auto stop start action the smaller engine setups use in the half tons and so forth. Just not something I enjoy dealing with, in the real world. Whether it being the AC dropping temp in those moments, to some delay. Or the jerkiness with the GM setups with their cylinder deactivations....let alone the trans not knowing what to do.

Camless engines, interesting, for sure. Will have to wait and see how that develops out.....
I, too, don't like common start-stop technology. Very annoying. Most people disable it. That said, a hybrid starts and stops seamlessly and you don't even know it's happening unless you look at the tachometer. In city driving it can save over 15% in fuel consumption. I'm glad to see hybrid technology moving up from the Prius to the big V-8's. Some day all engines will have it.
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Old 10-20-2021, 03:39 PM   #11
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I drove a Ford 450 with the 7.3 gas engine and 10R140 ten speed trans across country and liked it very much. It pulls most hills without a downshift. In the mountains it would downshift and easily maintain 65mph. And fuel mileage was much better than the old V10.
I don't think you will get the same performance from the Chevy 6.6 gas engine even if the new transmission is similar.
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Old 10-20-2021, 06:43 PM   #12
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move on.....I'm all about efficiencies and all, but nothing overly complicated or less reliable. One day, might be cool to see these technologies simplify some and move there way up to the HD units. The thought of a diesel or hydrogen elec powered deal sounds kind of cool, like a train.

vito: I agree and believe what you stated with your experience. The 7.3 will out do the 6.6, even if the 6.6 gets a small bump in power. It's just a bigger engine with more aggressive tuning, etc. Over time, when there's more bumps in power on the 6.6, it could get closer or equal but Ford will also bump power, so don't see it being overshadowed anytime soon.

If engine alone was the decision making factor, I would order the Ford today for '22 with the updated infotainment, console and some interior improvements.

Unfortunately, it's the entire drivetrain as a whole and cab config that matters most to me, along with some of the options with the truck (incl safety ones), at a reasonable price point of course, at the required trim level.

The GM 10 speed didn't seem to have any of the issues that Ford has had with theirs to my understanding, and no major axle issues, etc....talking the diesel one at the moment, since they haven't put out the 10 speed for the gas yet on the GM. With that said, I do expect few if no issues with the GM 10 speed for the gas since they've had time to work out things with the diesel one. Really hope the interior updates in the GM address some of the harder seat concerns too.....really need comfy seats for the longer drives, whether cloth or leather.

Really just hoping they bump the power on the next 6.6 gas mid-fresh or next year cycle. It will be an even nicer combo, coupled with the 10 speed. Will it be out towing the 7.3 Nah, don't believe so!
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Old 10-20-2021, 06:50 PM   #13
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I doubt GM will make many changes to the 6.6 gas engine for a few years. I'd be so happy of they put a 10 speed behind it though, the 6 speed is what hinders it and my 2011 suffers the same at the lower speeds uphill. If I had 4:10 gears I'm pretty sure I'd be happier towing most of the time. With the 6.6 gas I'm not sure of a 4:10 is available, but I'd choose it if the 6 speed is the only available transmission.

There are no stories about oil consumption on the GM 6.6 gas. I suspect someone was talking about the 5.3 with active fuel management. I am a mechanic and not a fan of the overly complex system for such little benefit. None of that on the 6.6 gas, and I'm glad I don't have it on my 6.0 gas.
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Old 10-20-2021, 09:41 PM   #14
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kdauto: Yes, not thinking GM will make any actual changes to the 6.6 gas, but hopefully a bump in output, that's it. That's what I was looking forward to.

Yeah, the 6.0 with the tried and true 6 speed and 4.10's is a solid runner. Not economical by any stretch, but just about as bullet proof as they come from a commercial grade has engine. Very very stout.....but obviously fell short of the other BIG 2 when their V8 gas engines were being updated throughout the years.

Sadly the 6.6 gas only offers 3.73, zero gearing choice (ridiculous), but the 6 speed again has had some internal updates to beef it up a bit more and it's VERY strong and reliable for what it is. But like many threads have mentioned on this topic, the 6.6 really needs the extra transmission gears like no other to be actually competitive.

Thanks for clarifying on the oil consumption, yes very aware of the 5.3 AFM consumption woes....as that engine has had that issue for some time. Reminds me of missing an old gen '04 5.3 Silverado we had as a work truck, wow that engine and trans were reliable. Think it had 260k on the clock, all original, just maintenance items.
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