upgrading my tow vehicle - ford f150-->navigator?

[Dave Pelletier]

Originally Posted by Nlambert

A consideration that I didn't see mentioned yet is that the suspension on the Navigator is coil sprung whereas the suspension on the F150 is leaf spring. Leaf springs provide for much more stable towing.

I towed some smallish trailers with our 19 Expedition and there was a big difference towing with the SUV vs a truck. Power wise it did just fine but it felt like it had a lot more "squish" to it and felt less planted. Too bad the transmission kicked the bucket and we dumped it.

Yep; the independent rear suspension with coils used on the Navigator are great for ride and handling at the expense of towing capability.

Dave

[Outlaw 38MB]

Tried to use a Lincoln Navigator for a tow vehicle years ago. Pulling a heavy 26 foot boat. It was terrible. Wheelbase too short. Didn't handle the tongue weight well. Swayed at highway speeds. Felt difficult to stop. Went to a 3/4 ton 4WD truck and never looked back.

[db4570]

Originally Posted by Nlambert

Leaf springs provide for much more stable towing.

Why?

Originally Posted by Nlambert

...our 19 Expedition and there was a big difference towing with the SUV vs a truck. Power wise it did just fine but it felt like it had a lot more "squish" to it and felt less planted.

It sounds like the springs just weren't as stiff, and has nothing to do with coil vs. leaf.

[db4570]

Originally Posted by Outlaw 38MB

Tried to use a Lincoln Navigator for a tow vehicle years ago. Pulling a heavy 26 foot boat. It was terrible. Wheelbase too short. Didn't handle the tongue weight well. Swayed at highway speeds. Felt difficult to stop. Went to a 3/4 ton 4WD truck and never looked back.

The long overhang of the Navigator was likely more to blame than a shorter wheelbase.

If the trailer was swaying it was likely because it wasn't loaded with enough tongue weight. A bigger truck only masked this, and didn't correct it.

And you're talking a boat trailer without a WD hitch, yes? So that experience is irrelevant to towing a TT with a correctly set up WD hitch.

[Dave Pelletier]

Originally Posted by db4570

Why?



It sounds like the springs just weren't as stiff, and has nothing to do with coil vs. leaf.

You're right; they could make a coil sprung rear suspension system that works as well for hauling and towing as a leaf sprung system.....but they don't... which makes the "why" a bit irrelevant; the Navigator has a inferior suspension setup for towing or hauling vs. his F-150.


Dave

[Outlaw 38MB]

Originally Posted by db4570

The long overhang of the Navigator was likely more to blame than a shorter wheelbase.

If the trailer was swaying it was likely because it wasn't loaded with enough tongue weight. A bigger truck only masked this, and didn't correct it.

And you're talking a boat trailer without a WD hitch, yes? So that experience is irrelevant to towing a TT with a correctly set up WD hitch.

After 60 years of towing experience of everything from a lawn trailer, boats up to 42 feet in length, to 53 foot high cube semi tractor trailer rigs, I'm pretty familiar with tow vehicles, tongue weight and the like. No, the Navigator around 2010 was NOT a good tow vehicle. I can't speak to a newer model, but for all the reasons mentioned from other responders in this string, I suspect it still is not.

[Nlambert]

Originally Posted by db4570

Why?



It sounds like the springs just weren't as stiff, and has nothing to do with coil vs. leaf.

By design coil springs are there to soften the ride and in turn that softer ride reduces the tow capability. Leafs handle heavier loads, coils give a better ride. It has everything to do with coils vs leafs.

My 2012 2500 had the exact same setup as my 2018 Ram 2500 with the only difference being the 2012 had leafs and my 18 has coils. The difference in payload isn't a little, it's a lot. My 2012 had just shy of a 3k lb payload. My 2018 has a whopping 1,681. If the only difference is the suspension, that should tell you all that you need to know.

[db4570]

Originally Posted by Nlambert

By design coil springs are there to soften the ride and in turn that softer ride reduces the tow capability. Leafs handle heavier loads, coils give a better ride. It has everything to do with coils vs leafs.

My 2012 2500 had the exact same setup as my 2018 Ram 2500 with the only difference being the 2012 had leafs and my 18 has coils. The difference in payload isn't a little, it's a lot. My 2012 had just shy of a 3k lb payload. My 2018 has a whopping 1,681. If the only difference is the suspension, that should tell you all that you need to know.

So you had a truck with heavier duty springs. So, what? It still had nothing to do with coil vs. leaf.

These myths and prejudices get spread around that have no basis in fact. Some coil springs have huge load capacities. Most larger trucks probably use leaf springs because they are cheaper and simpler, not because the carry more weight.

Some buildings are suspended with coil springs. Tanks use coil springs.

Why don't you call these guys up and chide them for sacrificing load capacity for a comfy ride?

[Nlambert]

Originally Posted by db4570

So you had a truck with heavier duty springs. So, what? It still had nothing to do with coil vs. leaf.

These myths and prejudices get spread around that have no basis in fact. Some coil springs have huge load capacities. Most larger trucks probably use leaf springs because they are cheaper and simpler, not because the carry more weight.

Some buildings are suspended with coil springs. Tanks use coil springs.

Why don't you call these guys up and chide them for sacrificing load capacity for a comfy ride?

So we're talking about trucks and cars, and you post up a tank? You DO know that is not even in the realm of what we're discussing right? I see them every day, so I can help a little with this.

Take a look at the pic. Each set of coil springs allow the bogies independent movement to keep them planted on the ground while allowing maximum travel over large objects. If you stick enough of them on it, it can carry the weight. But you won't find those size coils on ANY vehicle that you nor I would ever pull an RV with.


You said a key word here.... PROBABLY. Leaf springs are not always "cheaper and simpler". On these trucks, leafs are used because they carry more weight. Plain and simple.

Specific to why Ram did it with the 2500.... they advertised that it was done to improve ride quality and reduce weight. You can fact check it all you want.

Why it's on a lot of SUVs, etc... are because it allowed them to use an independent suspension that articulates more, which you guessed it... improved ride quality. You can find that information on Ford and GMs if you want.... it's all out there. No guesswork needed.