Watching a friend make a mistake with his F250

[jim1521]

Originally Posted by Craig1960

So you're calling the OP part of the problem because he thinks the dealer shouldn't let him leave their lot with an illegal rig that they are fully (or should be) aware of?
I agree with the OP and if something were to happen the dealer should be partly responsible at least.
I give the OP kudos for trying to tell his friend he shouldn't do it and for posting it on here where he may get an idea to help convince his friend it is a bad decision.

Yes. Let me be straight: if I had to make a choice of leaving my kid with a Bengal tiger or an RV salesman, I'd choose the tiger.

Just prior to purchasing my RV (2016 Grand Design 313RLTS), I got into this EXACT SAME ARGUMENT with a salesman over a 5th wheel. He swore up and down that my truck (2016 Nissan Titan XD diesel) would be able to tow that trailer. I ran the numbers and knew there was NO WAY that was going to be able to do it. I called BS on him and the Sales Manager - telling them that they were both willingly allowing me to exceed the limits just to sell a trailer. I walked out of that dealership and never looked back.

Yes: both of them were unethical, but it was MY responsibility to do my own due diligence - NOT the dealer. So when someone looks to pass the responsibility off to someone else ("it's the dealer's fault") they're part of the problem. The OP definitely did the right thing by pushing hard on his friend, but as somebody here said, in the end it's the buyer who has responsibility to get it right - nobody else.

[NLOVNIT]

When it came time for us to upgrade from our TT to our 5-r, I made a pest of myself to Ken & Rusty here asking all sorts of questions on what type of truck could safely pull the 5-r I had my eye on. I got lots of bad advice from some members but I filtered that out. It was daunting trying to make heads or tails of GVWR, GCWR, hitch weight, pay load, tow capacity, axle rating....etc. But I felt it was MY responsibility to know the specs & limits of my tow vehicle. If I got into an accident & was found to be over my ratings, I'm sure lawyers wouldn't accept "...but the salesperson told me it was ok" as a legitimate defense. The dealer also wouldn't be the one taken to the cleaners.

Maybe that's the problem. People don't want to take responsibility for their own decisions & actions. They'd rather blame someone else than man up & be accountable for their choices.

Lori-

[wnorton]

Wow, what a read or should I say debate. This is a lead him to water and hope he drinks it. You won’t be able to force him to do the right thing.

To reiterate, interesting thread.

[fvstringpicker]

One thing I've gleaned from these "will my truck pull it" threads is why folks go to the dealer and proceed to argue with a salesman about the limits of their truck. When we were looking, I never dreamed of looking at a rig with a 2 ton pin, inquiring whether I can handle it and than arguing with the salesman, who probably drives a 8 year old Camry.
Additionally, I can only guess that if there were a multitude of wrecks caused by overweight RVs, the dealers would be required to take more precautions before making a statement about truck capacity and who can tow what.
Besides, if a pin weight exceeding the door sticker of a couple or three pounds is going to cause you to careen into an embankment, you've got bigger problems with the truck, or perhaps your driving, than whats on the door sticker.

[Craig1960]

Originally Posted by jim1521

Yes. Let me be straight: if I had to make a choice of leaving my kid with a Bengal tiger or an RV salesman, I'd choose the tiger.

Just prior to purchasing my RV (2016 Grand Design 313RLTS), I got into this EXACT SAME ARGUMENT with a salesman over a 5th wheel. He swore up and down that my truck (2016 Nissan Titan XD diesel) would be able to tow that trailer. I ran the numbers and knew there was NO WAY that was going to be able to do it. I called BS on him and the Sales Manager - telling them that they were both willingly allowing me to exceed the limits just to sell a trailer. I walked out of that dealership and never looked back.

Yes: both of them were unethical, but it was MY responsibility to do my own due diligence - NOT the dealer. So when someone looks to pass the responsibility off to someone else ("it's the dealer's fault") they're part of the problem. The OP definitely did the right thing by pushing hard on his friend, but as somebody here said, in the end it's the buyer who has responsibility to get it right - nobody else.

I think we all agree that the it comes down to the buyer's responsibility in the end. My point was in no way is the OP part of the problem and I do think the dealers should be held accountable if something happens when it was an illegal rig leaving their yard.

If I knowingly let something unsafe leave my shop and something happened I can be held responsible as they should be as well.

[funjnt]

Ok pardon me if I missed this point as I keep reading about the op being the problem blah blah. Safety is number one. Yes when he drives out of the driveway he is liable for safety. I think the dealer should be honest but you know how that goes, a sale is a sale.

I have several srw and drw f-350. There IS a difference between towing rates on a f-250 and f-350, chevy, ford or dodge.

Everyone pull out their owners manual and you will see your gvwr ratings listed for your vehicle. This is your truck alone, how much beer can you fill it with (injecting humor here). Now find the gcvwr. This is where a 250 and a 350 will be different. A 350 can pull more trailer than a 250 even though the gvwr is the same. Usually a 350 will have a lower rear than a 250. My 97 srw 350 has 4.10 vs. a same year 250 3.73. My o1 350 is combination tagged at 23,000 gcvwr single rear wheel.

I too looked at the specs of the Solitude and agree it is too much for a single rear wheel period to be safe and is over the ratings. A friend of mine bought a solitude this summer and he pulls it with a midsize 4 door freightliner.

I feel this is a very important topic we are discussing as we have horses and travel a lot with horses etc. I see this all too often in the horse world where people buy oversized horse trailers for their trucks and it may go down the road but it isn't safe kinda thing. We in the know should look out for our friends doing these things because in the end it's us stupid horse people or us stupid camper people etc. that get fingered for doing something unsafe and dangerous. I know it's not easy to educate some people but we have a responsibility I think.

[xrated]

Originally Posted by funjnt

Ok pardon me if I missed this point as I keep reading about the op being the problem blah blah. Safety is number one. Yes when he drives out of the driveway he is liable for safety. I think the dealer should be honest but you know how that goes, a sale is a sale.

I have several srw and drw f-350. There IS a difference between towing rates on a f-250 and f-350, chevy, ford or dodge.

Everyone pull out their owners manual and you will see your gvwr ratings listed for your vehicle. This is your truck alone, how much beer can you fill it with (injecting humor here). Now find the gcvwr. This is where a 250 and a 350 will be different. A 350 can pull more trailer than a 250 even though the gvwr is the same. Usually a 350 will have a lower rear than a 250. My 97 srw 350 has 4.10 vs. a same year 250 3.73. My o1 350 is combination tagged at 23,000 gcvwr single rear wheel.

I too looked at the specs of the Solitude and agree it is too much for a single rear wheel period to be safe and is over the ratings. A friend of mine bought a solitude this summer and he pulls it with a midsize 4 door freightliner.

I feel this is a very important topic we are discussing as we have horses and travel a lot with horses etc. I see this all too often in the horse world where people buy oversized horse trailers for their trucks and it may go down the road but it isn't safe kinda thing. We in the know should look out for our friends doing these things because in the end it's us stupid horse people or us stupid camper people etc. that get fingered for doing something unsafe and dangerous. I know it's not easy to educate some people but we have a responsibility I think.

I whole-heartedly agree with your statement that I've put in Bold print. It's sometimes discouraging though to try and educate some folks, especially when you take the time to include actual numbers that they have provided, then someone else comes along and starts with the "I've got a setup just like that and I've towed it for xxx amount of years......I don't even hardly know it's back there"; all the while, being way overloaded. Then there are the ones that are quick to label you the "weight police" when you try to point out that someone is getting ready to make a huge mistake by buying a trailer that is too big for their truck. I have to admit, I've been called a lot worse things than the weight police, so I guess I'll just keep on trying to offer my input when and if I can possibly help someone.

[funjnt]

It is upsetting when you get the know it all's who have been pulling big trailers with no problem and all that yes. Luckily for me I am a commercial driver and have commercial trucks etc. That usually opens ears especially when you have seen accidents and such. I think that some people will listen but you will always get a know it all in the bunch. We can only try.

[Davidrvr]

Originally Posted by jim1521

No, it really isn't. All too many times we're looking for someone else to blame. The dealer isn't the guy who's buying the trailer. The dealer isn't holding a gun up to his friend's head. The friend admitted that his truck is undersized. Yet here the OP is trying to put it on the dealer - placing the blame somewhere else, when in the end it's the friend's responsibility to accept that he's got the wrong truck.



The friend is getting emotional about this and has to have that trailer at all cost. That's what is clouding his judgment.

I agree .. OP isn’t the issue and you can’t be blamed for what your friends or people you have met do. Seriously? Think about that for a min.. you would be in jail or worse for what your friends have done.. wake up!!


Funny thing I have seen .. guys with there ram trucks towing cars from 1 area to another ... 8-10 cars on a goose neck trailer that weigh over 50k lbs .. legal to do with a permit?

Surprising what a few dollars will get you

[glennwest]

There was an accident recently on I-10 headed into California. New 250, jacked up with aftermarket rims and tires, towing a large toyhauler. Car ran red light at intersection. T boned the truck. Tore hitch from truck, turned it on its side. Camper plowed into it, rolling it up. Camper not damaged badly but truck destroyed. There is a utube video wreckers made of this. So glad I tow with my Freightliner Century.

[2002dura]

Originally Posted by glennwest

There was an accident recently on I-10 headed into California. New 250, jacked up with aftermarket rims and tires, towing a large toyhauler. Car ran red light at intersection. T boned the truck. Tore hitch from truck, turned it on its side. Camper plowed into it, rolling it up. Camper not damaged badly but truck destroyed. There is a utube video wreckers made of this. So glad I tow with my Freightliner Century.

Sorry, but that is not what happened in that wreck. The guy towing the trailer is the one who ran the red light. He admitted it. He was not hit by a car, but a pickup truck. Hit him on the rear wheel and actually knocked the axle out of his truck, which contrubuted to the roll over.

[glennwest]

In the video the differential is still attached to truck. It is damaged badly. Just stating this because of post toppic. He also had badly chosen his tow truck.

[smurfsofwar]

I'm confused. He ran a red light, got hit by another vehicle which is the direct cause of the wreck and this led you to believe he had a poorly chosen truck? So you're assuming a different truck would be immune to accidents?

To add, I have seen the video and a great deal of the back and forth banter.

[wingnut60]

I also looked at the video til I got tired, not the entire thing. When thinking about all the overweight comments and legal woes to be suffered by towing over limits--does anyone here really think that the police are going to check into whether or not he was overweight on that SRW with that trailer?