Weights & Capacities – Clarification

[myredracer]

I made a trip through a CAT scale a couple of days ago with our TT. On the way to our cg, I weighed in at a commercial truck scale on the Canadian side of the border and also at a US one on the interstate on the way to the CAT scale. Here's the total weight numbers I got:

CAT scale - 14,240 lbs
Canadian truck scale - 14,190 lbs (6450 kg)
US truck scale - 14,160 lbs

The CAT scale number should be a little higher as I filled up the tank there which was about 1/2 empty (30 gal. tank ??). Even without correcting for the weight of the gas, the figures are surprisingly close.

Besides weighing at a scale for the weight of your trailer, you really should be doing yourself a favor and taking the opportunity and time to calculate your tongue (or pin) weight and TV available payload. I'll be posting our CAT scale results with some questions as I am still having a little trouble getting our dual cam WDH final set up done.

[JohnBoyToo]

Just to show you an eye opener... my truck stats shows base curb weight of 7615 lb !

My cat scale weight with the wife, dog, hitch, full tank, and me ?

8,700lbs !!!!!!!!! I'm overweight, but dang !

must be the ford options from the factory of spray in bed liner, crew cab, short bed, truxport bedcover, moonroof, etc.... etc....

so don't go by the spec sheets - they are only a 'dry weight' that is unusable...

good luck

[CD]

Originally Posted by JohnBoyToo

Just to show you an eye opener... my truck stats shows base curb weight of 7615 lb !

My cat scale weight with the wife, dog, hitch, full tank, and me ?

8,700lbs !!!!!!!!! I'm overweight, but dang !

must be the ford options from the factory of spray in bed liner, crew cab, short bed, truxport bedcover, moonroof, etc.... etc....

so don't go by the spec sheets - they are only a 'dry weight' that is unusable...

good luck

You just didn't realize DW & the dog weighed so much.

[myredracer]

What I just don't get is that on our F250 the door jamb sticker says the max. payload is 2800 lbs. But after being to the scale and using the GCWR figure, the available payload is only 1800 lbs. What the heck?

I'm probably repeating myself by now, but how on earth can the door jamb sticker be so much different?? What if someone bought an RV using the door jamb payload number as a determining factor and then found out their truck was grossly overloaded?

And.... Just weighed our TT at a scale and we only have about 200 lbs of available payload left in it and we have hardly put anything in it. Yet the sticker on the outside says the payload is 1300 lbs or so (I forget the exact number and would have to go look again). This is so far off what you are led to believe it isn't funny. It means for example, if we decided to travel with a load of fresh water, we'd be over the GVWR and axle ratings. Also, the factory hitch weight says 514 lbs but it is actually 960 lbs.

The more I read and the more I look into things, the more I just don't get the stickered and advertised weights of trailers and TVs.

[wingnut60]

[QUOTE=myredracer

The more I read and the more I look into things, the more I just don't get the stickered and advertised weights of trailers and TVs. [/QUOTE]

Now you see what several members on this forum are citing and often get flamed for it...welcome to the real RV weight world.

My '05 Suites has GVW at 16k, sticker in cabinet proudly stated it had 815lbs carrying capacity IF no water on board. I bought it used and was aware of the situation, and have upgraded everything but the axles to correct items. Axles are close, but ok.

Joe

[JayeTaye]

Originally Posted by myredracer

What I just don't get is that on our F250 the door jamb sticker says the max. payload is 2800 lbs. But after being to the scale and using the GCWR figure, the available payload is only 1800 lbs. What the heck?

I'm probably repeating myself by now, but how on earth can the door jamb sticker be so much different?? What if someone bought an RV using the door jamb payload number as a determining factor and then found out their truck was grossly overloaded?

And.... Just weighed our TT at a scale and we only have about 200 lbs of available payload left in it and we have hardly put anything in it. Yet the sticker on the outside says the payload is 1300 lbs or so (I forget the exact number and would have to go look again). This is so far off what you are led to believe it isn't funny. It means for example, if we decided to travel with a load of fresh water, we'd be over the GVWR and axle ratings. Also, the factory hitch weight says 514 lbs but it is actually 960 lbs.

The more I read and the more I look into things, the more I just don't get the stickered and advertised weights of trailers and TVs.

You are NOT alone. I've been researching and studying this crap for weeks and the more I try to understand it, the more confusing it gets. I am beyond frustrated.

[RustyJC]

These weights are precisely why some of us emphasize the importance of using the weight of a truck loaded and fueled just like you will be using it as well as the GVWR of the towable RV for your calculations. If the truck's laden curb weight (the weight of a loaded and fueled truck) is LCW, then:

Truck's GCWR minus Truck's LCW = maximum allowable total weight of loaded trailer

Truck's GVWR minus Truck's LCW = maximum allowable pin/tongue weight of loaded trailer

When shopping for towable RVs, use the RV's GVWR as the total weight of the loaded trailer and 20% (if a 5th wheel) or 12% (if a TT) of the RV's GVWR as the pin or tongue weight of the loaded trailer to calculate whether or not you can tow the RV while staying within the truck's ratings.

There's nothing more misleading than a trailer's dry weight, a manufacturer's trailer tow rating or a manufacturer's payload rating in these calculations, because these weights do NOT represent the weights you'll encounter when using the truck or RV, as has been demonstrated by the posters above.

Rusty

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by JayeTaye

I am beyond frustrated.

Most folks that are frustrated over RV weights and tow vehicle capabilities are trying to find one vehicle with the perfect combination of commuter car with great MPG, and tow vehicle for a heavy trailer. Ain't gonna happen. The frustration comes from continuing to look for that tow vehicle that the laws of physics does not allow. Or if you don't do your homework, you wind up with an overloaded tow vehicle in the middle of your third towing trip.

Any compromise has to result in a tow vehicle that is not overloaded over any of the weight limits when towing. So no, you cannot have a half-ton pickup with soft car suspension and car tires that will tow a 12,000-pound fifth wheel. You cannot even have a so-called one-ton pickup with single rear wheels (SRW) for a 5er that might gross more than about 12,000 pounds.

The tow vehicle manufacturers don't help any with their grossly overinflated "tow ratings". My '99.5 Ford diesel had a fifth-wheel tow rating of over 13,000 pounds, but it was overloaded with a 5er that grossed less than 8,000 pounds. My 2012 F-150 has a tow rating of 8,400 pounds, but it's overloaded with a TT that grosses less than 5,000 pounds.

So even if you diligently do your homework using realistic numbers, you can still wind up overloaded if you don't include a substantial margin for error when doing the numbers to match trailer to tow vehicle. And yes, that's beyond frustrating.

[SheCon843]

We bought the truck first..then later the TT..after going on a camping trip last week and several guys asking my husband how we pulled our TT with THAT truck, we have been reading more on weight capacity, etc.. After reding the posts.. Now we are more confused than ever..
We have a 2013 dodge ram laramie longhorn crew cab 4x2 v8 hemi with 6 speed transmission.. It also has air suspension, trailer tow package , trailer brake control system..
Then we decided a month or so later to purchase a TT.. We decided on a 30 ft Dutchman Kodiak liteweight..(supposedly you can pull with an suv) the weight is 7622 lbs.
What we are really confused about is the towing max capacity on this dodge truck.. You go to one web site..it tells you one thing.. I go to another and it may tell me 10000 lbs and earlier, i found a gcwr weight of 15650 and max trailer weight of 9950.. Any suggestions other than weighing it..as we are not near any weighing places.. As to how i can find out.. If i call the car dealership, can i trust them to be honest ? Thanks for any help! This truck is new and we dont want to blow a transmission!

[caissiel]

The way i see it is anyone can break a truck towing at 50% trailer weight. If driven properly a truck can last with 200% trailer load. I see many drivers passing me driving 75 mph uphill. I let the truck pull at proper load and heat capacity and after towing at above rated capacity since 1972 I can say, that i never had the privilege to see any of my vehicles break down due to towing. Most of my vehicles have lasted way above 200k miles.
Just observe class 8 trucks with 80k lbs. weights with same power that most pickups have. They are geared to allow slowing down when required in the hills or their fuel consumption would be through the roof. They also are required to allow proper distance because they cannot stop the load like other vehicles.

All i read is power complaints and brakes requirements. Everything is dependent on the owner and driver.

in 72 I towed a 3500 lbs. U-haul across Canada (4k miles) and back 2 years later with the save 6 cylinder Dodge. max speed was 55mph on 2 nd gear and high gear could cruise on flat roads. I drove the car 3 more years until a winter accident totaled it while the mechanical was still all origiinal.
My friends with a new V8 GM did the same trip with a 1500 lbs U-haul in tow and blew the transmission after 3000 miles. and on the return trip they blew 2 transmissions with similar trailer towed by even stronger V8 Ford Mercury.
There is my proof that it's the driver or lack of power that makes the difference.
i towed a 5600lbs 5th wheel with a 2,9l STX Ranger for 3 years and 30k towing miles and never had any issues other then having to shift at most hills. The truck was rated at 2000lbs trailer while the automatic similar model was rated at 6000lbs. The braking of the unit was fantastic. So much that at tire rated air pressures I noticed that the 2 rear tires had turned on the rim while doing an emergency stop on the highway , so I them traded for a 1/2 ton with much greater air pressures. That's why i will only tow with full air pressures in the rear wheels. Here I talk to duelly owners that tow with less then 50lbs air pressure due to ride comfort. I tell then I would never leave with low rear tire air pressure after my experience. I the trailer brakes are not set properly or TV brakes are great there can be enormous weight on the truck rear tires and on a single wheel the tire to rim reaction can be enormous. I would believe similar for duels.

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by SheCon843

We have a 2013 dodge ram laramie longhorn crew cab 4x2 v8 hemi with 6 speed transmission.. It also has air suspension, trailer tow package , trailer brake control system..

3.92 axle ratio
Curb weight 5,500 pounds
GVWR 6,800 pounds
Payload 1321 pounds (GVWR 6,800 minus Curb wt. 5500 = 1,300)

GCVW 15,650 pounds - 5,500 curb weight = 10,000 tow rating with 150 pound driver)

30 ft Dutchman Kodiak liteweight... the weight is 7622 lbs.

Which weight is 7622? Dry weight or GVWR? I suspect that's the GVWR. Model 279RBSL is 30'8" long (including hitch A- frame) and has GVWR of 7,600 pounds.

What we are really confused about is the towing max capacity on this dodge truck.. You go to one web site..it tells you one thing.. I go to another and it may tell me 10000 lbs and earlier, i found a gcwr weight of 15650 and max trailer weight of 9950.. Any suggestions other than weighing it.

The GVWR is on the Federal Certification Label on the driver's door frame. That's the label with tire size and PSI, VIN, month/day of assembly, GAWRs, GVWR, and a bunch of codes.

The GCWR is in your Owner's Guide. You have to know it's a Laramie LongHorn CrewCab with 5'7" box and 3.92 axle, then the chart in the Owner's Guide tells you it has a GCWR (Dodge calls sit GCVW) of 15,650 pounds.

The GVWR and GCWR are the only ratings that are meaningful. Payload and max trailer weights are very poor guesses, so ignore them and compute your own.

Yes, you must have at least one scale weight of the wet and loaded pickup before you can determine max hitch weight and max trailer weight you can have without being overloaded.

Load the pickup with everything that will be in it when towing, including people, pets, tools, options such as spray-in bedliner, and the weight-distributing hitch components. Fill up with gas, then weigh the wet and loaded pickup. A CAT scale is certified to be accurate, but you can probably get a good weight at a grain elevator or concrete plant or other places that have a scale if you don't live near an interstate highway where CAT scales are common at most exits.

Subtract the weight of the wet and loaded pickup from the GVWR, and the answer is the max hitch weight you can haul without being overloaded. For a TT, divide that max hitch weight by 0.15 and the answer is the max weight of any TT you can tow without exceeding the GVWR of the pickup.

Subtract the weight of the wet and loaded pickup from the GCWR (GCVW), and the answer is the max weight of any trailer you can tow without exceeding the GCWR of he pickup. The lightest of those two numbers based on GVWR or GCWR is the realistic real-world "tow rating" of your pickup.

as we are not near any weighing places.. As to how i can find out.. If i call the car dealership, can i trust them to be honest ?

Not only no, but heck no. They probably won't have a clue. Same conclusion for RV dealerships. Do it yourself or you can count on being overloaded when on the road.

This truck is new and we dont want to blow a transmission!

Theoretically, if you never exceed the GCWR of the pickup, then the tranny should not be a concern. But in real life I've found you cannot count on the manufacturer's weight limits.

For automatic transmissions, heat is the killer. Extreme heat is usually caused by dragging a heavy trailer up a step grade with the torque converter unlocked, which creates a volcano worth a heat that overcomes the tranny cooler(s) and thus overheats the tranny. My fix is to be certain I have a good digital tranny temp gauge I can see while driving. Any tranny sump temp up to about 210° F. is normal. Between 210° and 225° is the pay attention! zone. You're okay, you haven't burned up anything yet, but get ready to pull over and cool off if the gauge reaches the red line of 225° and you don't see the top of the pass in front of you.

If you ever do see over 225° sump temp, and thus have to stop and cool off the tranny, then when you get back home replace your inadequate oil-to-air (OTA) tranny cooler (heat exchanger) with a bigger one that can get rid of more heat.

[SheCon843]

Now im way confused..lol.. Ok.. The door of the truck states the gvwr is 6800 lbs with cargo capacity of 1137..

The specification on our TT per the Dutchmen website for ours which is 30 ft..however with the hitch, they say the measurement is like 36 ft 11 in.
With the TT, capacity weight and hitch weight..i get 9733.. We have no water in the fresh water tank, nor any of the other tanks. I think it allows somethink like
1900 cargo capacity in that number? We have nothing compared to that.. We have maybe 825 and thats our weight included..lol..
Dodge claims the truck can tow 10, 100 pounds with no problems at all.
We want that equalizer sway hitch and went to camping world the other day and seems like they want to correct the one we have rather than sell
Us a new one? Even though we had 2 guys there already that said they would never recommend the the one we have.. So go figure!
The service dept at dodge told my husband to raise the front end manually with the air suspension.. He was a young guy..so not sure he knows
What hes talking about either..
Thats our issue.. We are freaking out big time! Trip in 2 weeks ! Guess ill be hunting around Myrtle Beach for a scale!

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by SheCon843

Dodge claims the truck can tow 10, 100 pounds with no problems at all.

Dodge (FIAT) lies. Or At least they severely stretch the truth. Notice the line in my post above that says:

"GCVW 15,650 pounds - 5,500 curb weight = 10,000 tow rating with 150 pound driver"

That's where "Dodge says" the truck can tow 10,000 pounds with no problems at all. But analyze those numbers. You can tow 10,000 pounds with no problems at all ONLY when your truck weighs 5,500 pounds or less before you tie onto the trailer. If your wet and loaded truck weighs more than 5,500 pounds (and it will), then your actual tow rating will be less than 10,000 pounds. And the tow rating is probably not your limiter. You will probably exceed the GVWR long before you get close to the 10,000 trailer weight. And Dodge says loud and clear that you should NEVER exceed either the GVWR or GCWR of your Dodge.

Trip in 2 weeks ! Guess ill be hunting around Myrtle Beach for a scale!

There are no big-truck scales south of I-95, which is almost 60 miles from you. If you go up there, then you'll find them at truck stops at exits 164, 169, 181 and 190.
Myrtle Beach, South Carolina Truck Scales and Weigh Stations for Truck Drivers and Trucking Companies (and RVers)

Here are two:

Love's Country Store
I-95/ SC Hwy 34, Exit 190
Dillon, SC

Flying J Travel Plaza
I-95 Exit 181A
Latta, SC 29565

A quick search didn't turn up any truck scales closer to Myrtle Beach. But I'm sure there are some sort of scales there somewhere, such as at a concrete mixing plant, grain elevator, or gravel pit.

[SheCon843]

Thanks Smokeywren! Youve been a big help!