What's your take with the whole EV push?

[ChrisDParise]

Originally Posted by radar

No. Any insurance company will tell you gas cars are much more likely to have a fire. At least one insurance company has said there will need to be a premium on gas cars within the next decade because of the higher probability of fires in gas cars.



https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-...ric-car-fires/

Absolutely ice car fires much more common
Gas station fires too.

[Reprobate]

Originally Posted by ChrisDParise

Absolutely ice car fires much more common
Gas station fires too.

Isn't that due to 99% of the cars on the road are ICE versus 1% EV?

[radar]

Originally Posted by Reprobate

Isn't that due to 99% of the cars on the road are ICE versus 1% EV?

No. As per the report. It’s per 100,000 vehicles registered. Gas cars are 60 times more likely to have a fire than electric. Hybrids are even worse.

[MADP4301]

My take on EV’s. I wish it could be done in a free market capitalism way and not heavily subsidized and influenced by politics and governments. Remember E85 here in the States? Fuel of the future, energy independence, billions invested and now I don’t think anyone makes a “flex fuel” new vehicle in 2023. Since that was a flop now it’s push E15. There’s no real market for it unless the government legislates it. I don’t think that’s the case for EV’s long term but we’re certainly putting the cart before the horse pumping out EV’s with heavy subsidies and banning gas/diesel to make it try and happen.

I love new technology when it betters my life and that of those around me, even if it disrupts old establishments. Take blockbuster to Netflix streaming. Awesome disruption. There are some examples where the technology is there but just needs a little nudge and in those situations I’m not totally anti gov meddling. Think LED lighting. It was there but expensive and not fully scaled when the gov helped accelerate adaption. Now we have bulbs that cost about 30% more than incandescent yet use 80% less energy and last 5 times as long.

Tell you what. I will stand in line and gladly pay 30%, 40% maybe even 50% more for my next daily driver if it can deliver the results of LED. That would be $10 vs $65 for a range of 450 miles, fully recharge in under 5 minutes and give me a powertrain (motor + battery) that lasts for 30 years and maybe 750,000 miles.

Sarcasm aside, EV needs to deliver something better than ICE for me to want it. So far, it costs more to buy, about the same cost to fuel/charge, has 30-40% less range and I’m for sure horrible resale around the 10 year mark when the batteries are past useful life.

They are fun and deliver amazing performance, just not for my money yet.

[radar]

Originally Posted by MADP4301

My take on EV’s. I wish it could be done in a free market capitalism way and not heavily subsidized and influenced by politics and governments. Remember E85 here in the States? Fuel of the future, energy independence, billions invested and now I don’t think anyone makes a “flex fuel” new vehicle in 2023. Since that was a flop now it’s push E15. There’s no real market for it unless the government legislates it. I don’t think that’s the case for EV’s long term but we’re certainly putting the cart before the horse pumping out EV’s with heavy subsidies and banning gas/diesel to make it try and happen.

I love new technology when it betters my life and that of those around me, even if it disrupts old establishments. Take blockbuster to Netflix streaming. Awesome disruption. There are some examples where the technology is there but just needs a little nudge and in those situations I’m not totally anti gov meddling. Think LED lighting. It was there but expensive and not fully scaled when the gov helped accelerate adaption. Now we have bulbs that cost about 30% more than incandescent yet use 80% less energy and last 5 times as long.

Tell you what. I will stand in line and gladly pay 30%, 40% maybe even 50% more for my next daily driver if it can deliver the results of LED. That would be $10 vs $65 for a range of 450 miles, fully recharge in under 5 minutes and give me a powertrain (motor + battery) that lasts for 30 years and maybe 750,000 miles.

Sarcasm aside, EV needs to deliver something better than ICE for me to want it. So far, it costs more to buy, about the same cost to fuel/charge, has 30-40% less range and I’m for sure horrible resale around the 10 year mark when the batteries are past useful life.

They are fun and deliver amazing performance, just not for my money yet.

I don’t know. Depends where you live I suppose. It costs 9 bucks to go 500 kilometres in EV. Our previous Jeep Grand Cherokee would have been at least 6 or 7 times that. And guaranteed the range wasn’t much better…if at all. That thing was a pig.

Resale is pretty good on used 10 year old EV’s here. Why would you think the batteries are past useful life after 10 years?

[Fridge Defend]

Originally Posted by Sbad0cko

Any thoughts or ideas on how this movement by most auto manufacturers will affect the RV market?

We are all getting bombarded with news article after news article regarding the shift to EV's. Just today I found this on CNN:

GM (GM) is spending a significant amount of money to shift production from traditional gasoline-powered vehicles to a lineup of pure electric vehicles. While that will eventually reduce labor costs since EVs don’t take as many hours of labor to produce, it does require billions of dollars in upfront investment. GM (GM) has said it will invest $35 billion between now and 2025 in the shift to EVs. Its target is to have an all EV lineup of passenger vehicles by 2035.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/09/business/gm-layoffs

There is already a lot out there regarding the F150 Lightning's, shall we say less then great, towing capability with regard to range. Are people going to be able to buy a traditional ICE TV in a decade?

The world is changing fast !

EV has a lot of downsides, one is that one does not have freedom to go where they please and in any weather. The long term reliability and cost/mile for batteries is yet to be understood as prices change along with technology. EV is good for manufactures and sales, may not be as good for the consumer?

[radar]

Originally Posted by Fridge Defend

EV has a lot of downsides, one is that one does not have freedom to go where they please and in any weather. The long term reliability and cost/mile for batteries is yet to be understood as prices change along with technology. EV is good for manufactures and sales, may not be as good for the consumer?

Hmm. We have been driving electric only for 7 years. I can’t remember being limited in where I can go.

But I didn’t understand the weather comment. Our temps vary from minus 30 to plus 42 celcius here with lots of snow. Our EV is considerably more reliable and more convenient than our previous grand Cherokee. I’m sure some models and manufacturers are better or worse than others but we certainly don’t experiment any limitations.

The majority of new vehicles sold in Northern Europe are electric. Gas stations are downsizing as they lose customers. The more north you go the more people choose electric. That wouldn’t happen if they didn’t work. Get the right model though. Some built specifically for southern environments suck in the cold.

[ChrisDParise]

Originally Posted by Fridge Defend

EV has a lot of downsides, one is that one does not have freedom to go where they please and in any weather. The long term reliability and cost/mile for batteries is yet to be understood as prices change along with technology. EV is good for manufactures and sales, may not be as good for the consumer?

I like doing my own research and am always careful to use only trusted reputable sources. You can do the same. The risk is being left behind by making poor financial decisions. The saying to be forewarned is to be forearmed applies.

Information is readily available on the internet and auto makers websites.

[Reprobate]

Originally Posted by ChrisDParise

I like doing my own research and am always careful to use only trusted reputable sources. You can do the same. The risk is being left behind by making poor financial decisions. The saying to be forewarned is to be forearmed applies.

Information is readily available on the internet and auto makers websites.

Currently, for me in the backwards? SW, EV is a poor financial decision. I welcome your definition of being left behind.

[4x4ord]

Originally Posted by ChrisDParise

I like doing my own research and am always careful to use only trusted reputable sources. You can do the same. The risk is being left behind by making poor financial decisions. The saying to be forewarned is to be forearmed applies.

Information is readily available on the internet and auto makers websites.

What you see as a trusted reputable source someone else might see as propaganda. What people believe to be true is what is what will dictate the future ... not necessarily what is true.

[tuffr2]

Makes sense to me that if gasoline tax is decreased because of EV's that tax has to be gathered another way. After all EV's are heavier than ICE cars and they use the same roads.

I would not put it past big brother to automatically record how many miles an EV car goes in a tax year and add that to your tax you owe.

There is no free ride.

[MS60ocb]

I visualize the news story that tells about the Electric Company, that couldn't restore the electric service because there EVs needed a charge.


Before I retired from a electric utility, there was talk about real time pricing of energy and point of use (charging stations). I feel that would made it very feasible to add some money the Road & Bridge funds.

[MADP4301]

Resale on popular EV’s is good right now because of supply and demand. It’s just like HD pickups. Overtime they will have to stand on their own and possibly deal with oversupply.

My company now makes large commercial batteries using the same cells as Tesla. In a commercial application we are confident the batteries can maintain 80% of their original capacity for up to 8 years. After that the degradation is not linear and by 10 years they will make the vehicle unusable with declining range day by day. We are thrilled since it’s a great aftermarket opportunity to sell new battery packs on a commercial vehicle that should last for 20+ years.

Here’s the big difference between electric CV (commercial vehicle) and passenger car (up to class 3 trucks included). In a couple hours with a forklift you can replace the CV batteries on a bus/truck that still has a strong service life ahead of it. Even as better technology/size/packaging changes you are okay. Not so much in most EV cars it’s a major operation similar to replacing an ICE engine. Nobody is going to spend $10-15k all in to replace batteries in a 10 year old EV. Replacement batteries might be hard to come by too given the rapid advancements. Size and packaging are changing day by day. The same principle applies to ICE. Nobody would spend $10-15k to replace the motor in a Jeep Grand Cherokee that is 10 years old with say 200k miles. It’s worth $10k with an old working motor and maybe 13k with a new/rebuilt one.

I’m not anti EV. I’m just realistic and a bit of an analyst by nature and for me EV is just too expensive to justify for daily drivers that I like to buy new and keep for 10 years. I truly believe that a newly purchased EV will have little to no value in 10 years from now. I would never buy a used EV with a range of 125 miles then maybe 80 miles a year later to who knows after that.

A good simple reference is your cell phone, tablet or laptop. Once the battery life starts going down before you know it it’s dead!

PS: All my opinions here go out the window if breakthroughs happen where EV battery packs go from $10-15k to $1.5k per vehicle. If we get there then ICE will die off rather quickly when new ICE costs more than EV and EV costs leas to keep on the road for 20 years. Back to my LED lighting analogy. Free market capitalism will drive the switch over not government.

[Cumminsfan]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

Makes sense to me that if gasoline tax is decreased because of EV's that tax has to be gathered another way. After all EV's are heavier than ICE cars and they use the same roads.

I would not put it past big brother to automatically record how many miles an EV car goes in a tax year and add that to your tax you owe.

There is no free ride.

In Oregon you do pay more for registration based on MPG's/EV. Gotta make up for the lower gas tax revenues.