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Old 10-07-2020, 07:42 PM   #1
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Will it do it safely?

So I have a 2020 F-250 SD 4WD FX4 XLT CC SB with the 6.7PS, 3.55 e-locker, and the HCTP. (unrelated to this question but for more info, it has the 3" class V travel trailer hitch from factory rated at 21,200/2120)
It has the M275 rear axle and the 5 rear spring setup. It also has the factory Ford 5th wheel prep package.

The stickers:
GVWR - 10,800 (Tennessee rules)
Rear GAWR - 6,340
Front GAWR - 5,200
Factory cargo rating - 2,906
Factory calculated curb weight - 7,894

Actual curb weight with full fuel and no passengers (CAT Scale) - 7,780 total, 4,620 steer, 3,160 drive
Adjusted cargo rating based on real curb weight - 3,020

It is obvious that there is some significant derating going on here since the F-250 with the HCTP and the F-350 are basically the same truck when it comes to what matters towing a 5th wheel.

The Rear GAWR for the F-350 is 7,230 for the same axle and spring setup
The GVWR for the F-350 is 11,500 in the same configuration.

It appears that the limiter for rear GAWR the F-350 is the same as for the rear GAWR on the F-250 and that is the tire/wheel combo.
It appears that the limiter for the GVWR on the F-250 vs the F-350 is the artificial limit imposed by the 10,800 GVWR on my truck.
Using the non-derated numbers of the F-350, then my F-250's payload rating would be ~ 3,720.

Other notes:
Tennessee has a max GCWR of 26,000 the truck actual is 30,000
The max 5th wheel hitch capacity of the Ford 5th wheel prep package is 19,000

Now that you have all the numbers, can my truck safely tow a Grand Design Reflection 311BHS?
Brochure numbers:
UVW = 11,185
GWVR = 13,995
Pin weight = 2,197
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Old 10-07-2020, 07:55 PM   #2
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Your F250 cargo rating is 2,906 allowable; adding a fifth wheel hitch may eat up 200 of those pounds.

This Grand Design Reflection 311BHS starts with an unloaded Pin weight of 2,197.
Adding water, propane, even house batteries will quickly increase your pin weight. Then there is the load of your spouse, kids and Fido - and their dishes, clothes, toys, lawn chairs, BBQ grill, etc. Do you want food, drinks, ice or toilet paper? The list keeps growing.

A simplified explanation (based on available cargo weights): your F250 is suited for a bumper pull RV - the F350 better suits a fiver. Further refinement, as your pin approaches 3,500 pounds (quite possible if your RV is loaded near its GVWR) you may even consider a dually.

With that said many folks do just that - and (up to an overloaded mechanical breakdown - or an accident) claim everything feels good.


but that 6.7L is awesome.
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Old 10-07-2020, 08:01 PM   #3
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That heavy diesel up front is not helping your numbers any. Only 580 pounds left on your gross axle weight rating. Your possible pin weight is 3500 pounds plus the weight of the hitch itself. I would think it will be too much. 11,000 sure. 14,000 no. At 16,000 a duelly is a good idea just to let you know how close to duelly territory that trailer is.
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Old 10-07-2020, 08:11 PM   #4
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YES...emphatically YES

Trucks RAWR for your F250 is 6340#
5th wheel dry pin is 2197 based on the UVW of 11,185#
*roughly a 20% ratio

5th wheel GVWR 13,995 with a 22% ratio would be a WET Pin of 3079#

With a RAWR of 6340# you have capacity to 'carry' that WET Pin weight of 3100# (IF you actually loaded trailer to it's GVWR)

Axle Ratings and Tire MAX Load Ratings are what matter
Not a payload based on an arbitrary GVWR set by MFG
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Old 10-07-2020, 08:16 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Wrascal View Post
A simplified explanation: the F250 is suited for a bumper pull RV while the F350 suits a fiver. Further refinement, if your pin exceeds 3,000 plus pounds you may even consider a dually.
Seriously? I completely disagree. So does my 11,000 lbs fifth wheel on my 2500.
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Old 10-07-2020, 08:45 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit View Post
YES...emphatically YES

Trucks RAWR for your F250 is 6340#
5th wheel dry pin is 2197 based on the UVW of 11,185#
*roughly a 20% ratio

5th wheel GVWR 13,995 with a 22% ratio would be a WET Pin of 3079#

With a RAWR of 6340# you have capacity to 'carry' that WET Pin weight of 3100# (IF you actually loaded trailer to it's GVWR)

Axle Ratings and Tire MAX Load Ratings are what matter
Not a payload based on an arbitrary GVWR set by MFG
Empatically yes??

If you rely only on axle rating and tire rating, seems to me you're on the edge and likely over. At your listed pÓn weight of 3100 lbs you don't have 100 lbs left over. So, add 200 lbs for a standard 5th hitch, at least one passenger, a bit of junk,firewood etc and you're well over,no?

If one weighs every bit they load on the trailer I guess you could eek by. It's not something I'd like doing nor would I feel safe.
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Old 10-07-2020, 08:50 PM   #7
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I personally wouldn’t tow a fifth wheel by a 3/4 ton simply because of it’s pushing the max payload capacity. My main concern is not whether the truck can do it or not, its definitely doable, I’ve seen some trucks in Asia are 400% over their weight rating and still move fine. My concern is liability. You could get involve in an accident and even no one is hurt, the person can still sue you in a civil court and you are likely to lose due to close or over the sticker capacity. Trust me, I personally know attorneys do this for living and it happens a lot more than you think. I don’t want to pay an 100k settlement just because I saved 10k from upgrading a 3/4 ton to a 1 ton truck with a lot spare capacity. Have too much truck is not only safer physically, but also safer financially.
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Old 10-07-2020, 09:02 PM   #8
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Empatically yes??

If you rely only on axle rating and tire rating, seems to me you're on the edge and likely over. At your listed pÓn weight of 3100 lbs you don't have 100 lbs left over. So, add 200 lbs for a standard 5th hitch, at least one passenger, a bit of junk,firewood etc and you're well over,no?

If one weighs every bit they load on the trailer I guess you could eek by. It's not something I'd like doing nor would I feel safe.
NOPE!

Tow a SCALED weight 5vr (13,873#) with a WET pin weight 3080# and run Rear Axle at 6200# with tires rated for 6390#
Have towed it since 2006 ...7 yrs FT and dang truck didn't fall apart, explode, be damaged OR did combo ever give a 'white knuckle' ride cause it was MATCHED for towing

Axle Ratings/Tire Max Load Ratings ARE the limiters BUT you can SAFELY tow at MAX w/o issue
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Old 10-07-2020, 09:08 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by nicky8668 View Post
I personally wouldnít tow a fifth wheel by a 3/4 ton simply because of itís pushing the max payload capacity. My main concern is not whether the truck can do it or not, its definitely doable, Iíve seen some trucks in Asia are 400% over their weight rating and still move fine. My concern is liability. You could get involve in an accident and even no one is hurt, the person can still sue you in a civil court and you are likely to lose due to close or over the sticker capacity. Trust me, I personally know attorneys do this for living and it happens a lot more than you think. I donít want to pay an 100k settlement just because I saved 10k from upgrading a 3/4 ton to a 1 ton truck with a lot spare capacity. Have too much truck is not only safer physically, but also safer financially.
Have I died and gone to another planet? Since when did the rule of thumb become you need a 1 ton to tow a fifth wheel? This is the second post to say this.
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Old 10-07-2020, 10:42 PM   #10
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NOPE!

Tow a SCALED weight 5vr (13,873#) with a WET pin weight 3080# and run Rear Axle at 6200# with tires rated for 6390#
Have towed it since 2006 ...7 yrs FT and dang truck didn't fall apart, explode, be damaged OR did combo ever give a 'white knuckle' ride cause it was MATCHED for towing

Axle Ratings/Tire Max Load Ratings ARE the limiters BUT you can SAFELY tow at MAX w/o issue
Maybe I am misunderstanding but the OP stated his rear axle was at 3160 lbs unladen. If his RAWR is 6340 lbs that leaves 3180 lbs for pin weight. Most 5th hitches are 200 lbs or more, so that reduces available pin weight to 2980 lbs. Once you add in passengers and a wee bit of stuff you are at well under 2900 lbs of available pin weight. If your calculated pin weight is close to 3100 lbs as in your 1st response you are already 200 lbs over max RAWR.

I'm not saying it's impossible, my friend does it. Is it safe,legal or good for the truck? My buddy had a lot of stuff break on his and tires wear like crazy when towing.

If my calculation or understanding is wrong correct me.
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Old 10-07-2020, 11:15 PM   #11
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Maybe I am misunderstanding but the OP stated his rear axle was at 3160 lbs unladen. If his RAWR is 6340 lbs that leaves 3180 lbs for pin weight. Most 5th hitches are 200 lbs or more, so that reduces available pin weight to 2980 lbs. Once you add in passengers and a wee bit of stuff you are at well under 2900 lbs of available pin weight. If your calculated pin weight is close to 3100 lbs as in your 1st response you are already 200 lbs over max RAWR.

I'm not saying it's impossible, my friend does it. Is it safe,legal or good for the truck? My buddy had a lot of stuff break on his and tires wear like crazy when towing.

If my calculation or understanding is wrong correct me.
I plan to use an Andersen hitch. The F-350 has the same suspension, wheels, tires, axle etc. Its GAWR is 7230. The 2020 F-250 with the HCTP is basically a SRW F-350 with different stickers and badge on the side.

If it is safe and good for a F-350 then it should be for this 250. Legal or not is a whole different ball of wax.
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Old 10-07-2020, 11:41 PM   #12
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Have I died and gone to another planet? Since when did the rule of thumb become you need a 1 ton to tow a fifth wheel? This is the second post to say this.
I didnít say you need a 1 ton to tow a fifth wheel. What Iím saying is I personally wonít do it with a 3/4 ton. Itís surely doable, but not as safe as 1 ton. The payload buffer you have not only make it safer on the road, but also safer in the court if something unfortunate happens.
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Old 10-07-2020, 11:57 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Brantel View Post
I plan to use an Andersen hitch. The F-350 has the same suspension, wheels, tires, axle etc. Its GAWR is 7230. The 2020 F-250 with the HCTP is basically a SRW F-350 with different stickers and badge on the side.

If it is safe and good for a F-350 then it should be for this 250. Legal or not is a whole different ball of wax.

It will be (maybe) until you have an accident, and the other person get a hungry accident/personal injury lawyer!
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Old 10-08-2020, 12:34 AM   #14
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It will be (maybe) until you have an accident, and the other person get a hungry accident/personal injury lawyer!
Bingo. Someone finally took liability into consideration. They can still sue for mental suffering, wage loss, vacation cost, etc, even if they are not injured.
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