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Old 02-02-2021, 03:10 PM   #1
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How do the larger TT toy haulers tow?

I have a 38' TT and recently bought a side by side ATV...now considering a toy hauler. A 5th wheel isn't a good option for us for a various reasons. We tow with a Ram 2500. We are looking at the larger TT toy haulers.

Our current trailer is ~10k pounds loaded and can be a bit of a handful to tow at times. How does a ~12k pounds toy hauler TT tow? I can see getting the hitch set up being challenging and I could also see figuring out the exact position of the side by side inside the camper to be critical.

What about using the camper empty? Do you have to change the hitch setup when towing empty?

I might be over-thinking this, as I am very good at that, but I'd rather over-think than under-think and regret an expensive decision.
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Old 02-02-2021, 05:43 PM   #2
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Yes you are over thinking it

Toy Haulers are typically tongue heavy so when empty that have high tongue % and when loaded up the tongue % is still very good

Set up WDH properly (returning weight back to trucks front axle) and being level or slightly nose low will be a good towing experience

Longer trailer..........TAIL Swing LOL


What Year/Trim is your RAM 2500??
Short bed/long bed, 4x2/4x4, Quad/Crew Cab, Diesel/Gas etc
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Old 02-03-2021, 10:29 AM   #3
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Thanks. 2015 6.4 Hemi 4x4 Crew cab
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Old 02-03-2021, 01:08 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpap View Post
Thanks. 2015 6.4 Hemi 4x4 Crew cab

GVWR --- 10,000#
GVWR
3:73/19,800#
4:10/22,800#

Payload
Short Bx/3280#
Long Bx/3110#

MAX Trailer Tow Rating
3:73 Short Bx/12,610# OR Long Bx/12,440#
4:10 Short Bx/15,610# OR Long Bx/15,440#

FAWR ----5500#
RAWR ---6000#
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Old 02-03-2021, 01:33 PM   #5
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you may be over thinking i a tad lol fifthwheel/goosenecks do tow better. weight depends on manufacturer and equipment. any toyhauler with a seperate garage is going to be 2500lbs to 3k lbs heavier than an open floor plan. i have no idea why either. if you don't need the hapijac bed and dual couches then that's 750 lbs you can shed. if you don't have any issue pulling that 38' er then you should be fine. i applaud you for towing that land yaht! i had a 2008 wolf pack 30wp years ago.....worst experiance of my life! 35' on the bumper, would throw my f250 diesel around like a rag doll in a 25 mph side wind! turned out that forest river ( who rated that toyhauler as 1/2 ton towable btw) had designed that unit to be 22% tounge, empty! that unit had 13' of full width cargo and i had a 13'6" sand rail so i backed it in. tail section stuck into the kitchen. still 85% behind the axles but the 600lb motor, trans was over to infront of the axles. it was too tounge heavy! i have never and will never put 35' on the bumper again!

i say that because of old biscuits response.... "Set up WDH properly (returning weight back to trucks front axle) and being level or slightly nose low will be a good towing experience"...... buy a quality wdh/anit sway hitch.

i thought i had that set up correctly. i never weighed it with the rail in it. the last trip with it, on the way home, i put my tool box's, 2 cases of water, 1 case of soda, our dirtly clothes bag, all lawn chairs basically everything loose up against the ramp door behind the rail. it def made a diff but not good enough. went to a fiver and never looked back. cannot get the garage space in a fiver like you can a bumper hitch. i am going back to a 30' oal bumper hitch with 14' of full width cargo. still has a separate bed room, bath and full kitchen. 7k lbs dry with 2 ac units! they do exist lol they are custom made by dune sport but do exist.

the reason i say all this, is that an open floor plan fiver, can be as light as 8200 lbs as was my 2011 wolfpack 295 was. so fivers aren't out with the ram 2500 based on that reason.
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Old 02-03-2021, 02:47 PM   #6
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My previous trailer was a Keystone Fuzion Impact 34 1/2' Toy Hauler...tow behind. The empty weigh of the trailer was listed at 9000 lbs and the GVWR of that trailer was 13,000 lbs. The empty hitch weight was right at 1300 lbs, so from those numbers you can see it was pretty tongue heavy when loaded.

My scaled weight on the trailer was right at 12,500 lbs and in the garage area I had two 400 lbs each motorcycles, a toolbox, popup shelter and various other things for motorcycle track day use. When I made my first trip with it, loaded up for travel, the trailer sway was horrible. Long story short, CAT scale weights showed that I had just barely 10% tongue weight with it loaded. I tried adjusting the W.D. hitch spring bars several times on that first trip to try and make it livable for travel, but I ended up driving a lot slower than I normally would have. I ended up adding some permanent weight to the front part of the trailer to finally get it in the almost 12% range for tongue weight and it towed much better.

Bottom line is that yes, you will have to do some adjusting on the W.D. hitch depending on what you are carrying in the garage area, where the weight is located, and how much weight is there.
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Old 02-04-2021, 09:49 AM   #7
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit View Post
GVWR --- 10,000#
GVWR
3:73/19,800#
4:10/22,800#

Payload
Short Bx/3280#
Long Bx/3110#

MAX Trailer Tow Rating
3:73 Short Bx/12,610# OR Long Bx/12,440#
4:10 Short Bx/15,610# OR Long Bx/15,440#

FAWR ----5500#
RAWR ---6000#
Thanks, my trucks weights and capability is something I over-thought a long time ago.
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Old 02-04-2021, 12:45 PM   #8
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Thanks for the input everyone. It sounds to me like I might have a bit of a challenge getting it set up right but it should be possible. I have a good square bar e-q-ualizer WDH, open access to a scale on a military base and am pretty anal about setting up my hitch so I should be good.
I will have a 1500 lb sbs with a rear engine so backing it in with engine over the axles should be good. This does give me something to consider though. I need to look at how the front of the garage is positioned relative to the axles.

xrated, I am looking at about the same size as your previous trailer. I love the look of those Grand Design trailers. Are they as nice as they look? Out of my price range but...
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Old 02-04-2021, 01:40 PM   #9
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I did what you're thinking about doing last year. Had a 30' TT that towed great behind my 2017 F250 powerstroke.

Then we bought a side by side Wolverine x4. And a Winnebago 29STT.

My F250 was set up with the camper package and heavy duty front springs.

Hooking up the toyhauler with water tanks full put my rear end near the helper springs. Wimpy WDH didn't do much. Towing was scary.

Opted for the pro pride hitch with 1400lb bars. I Max then out pretty much. Towing was iffy.

Installed airbags and now towing is ok at best. Still worried I'm over axle weight.

I love my truck but I'm starting to dream of longbed F350's or an F450 to get rid of the pro pride...

In short - big toyhaulers are taller, wider and a lot HEAVIER. Upgrade your truck first.
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Old 02-07-2021, 07:07 AM   #10
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Our previous camper was a 30ft stryker with 10ft garage. We figured the tongue weight to be in the 1400lb range. We towed it with a 2019 f250 6.2 gas truck. Towed it just fine. Your truck would definitely handle what your looking at. Just make sure you get a real good hitch.
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Old 02-08-2021, 01:54 PM   #11
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I'm thinking I might be better off with a small 5th wheel which pushes my truck's weight limits rather than a heavy/long TT toy hauler. There are not many choices out there, the Cherokee Wolf Pack is the only one I've found. I can make the numbers work if I load my truck carefully. Thoughts?
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Old 02-09-2021, 04:00 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpap View Post
I'm thinking I might be better off with a small 5th wheel which pushes my truck's weight limits rather than a heavy/long TT toy hauler. There are not many choices out there, the Cherokee Wolf Pack is the only one I've found. I can make the numbers work if I load my truck carefully. Thoughts?
I looked at the wolfpacks long and hard. I wanted to keep my f250. I didn't like the thought of pushing my truck to the absolute limits. Plus the dry weights of the wolfpack fifth wheels were 1500-2000 lbs lighter then what we ended up buying and they are lighter for a reason. We purchased a f350 diesel srw and a carbon fifth wheel toy hauler. The 350 gave us 600lbs more payload. I also wanted the diesel for this task. This is my 2 cent for what it's worth.
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Old 02-09-2021, 04:18 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrace View Post
you may be over thinking i a tad lol fifthwheel/goosenecks do tow better. weight depends on manufacturer and equipment. any toyhauler with a seperate garage is going to be 2500lbs to 3k lbs heavier than an open floor plan. i have no idea why either. if you don't need the hapijac bed and dual couches then that's 750 lbs you can shed. if you don't have any issue pulling that 38' er then you should be fine. i applaud you for towing that land yaht! i had a 2008 wolf pack 30wp years ago.....worst experiance of my life! 35' on the bumper, would throw my f250 diesel around like a rag doll in a 25 mph side wind! turned out that forest river ( who rated that toyhauler as 1/2 ton towable btw) had designed that unit to be 22% tounge, empty! that unit had 13' of full width cargo and i had a 13'6" sand rail so i backed it in. tail section stuck into the kitchen. still 85% behind the axles but the 600lb motor, trans was over to infront of the axles. it was too tounge heavy! i have never and will never put 35' on the bumper again!

i say that because of old biscuits response.... "Set up WDH properly (returning weight back to trucks front axle) and being level or slightly nose low will be a good towing experience"...... buy a quality wdh/anit sway hitch.

i thought i had that set up correctly. i never weighed it with the rail in it. the last trip with it, on the way home, i put my tool box's, 2 cases of water, 1 case of soda, our dirtly clothes bag, all lawn chairs basically everything loose up against the ramp door behind the rail. it def made a diff but not good enough. went to a fiver and never looked back. cannot get the garage space in a fiver like you can a bumper hitch. i am going back to a 30' oal bumper hitch with 14' of full width cargo. still has a separate bed room, bath and full kitchen. 7k lbs dry with 2 ac units! they do exist lol they are custom made by dune sport but do exist.

the reason i say all this, is that an open floor plan fiver, can be as light as 8200 lbs as was my 2011 wolfpack 295 was. so fivers aren't out with the ram 2500 based on that reason.
We have decided to do all we reasonably can to keep our 2008 WolfPack 295WP. And it pulled well with our 2013 RAM 2500 diesel. And for that truck were were at 90% capacity.

This was our first RV. But we listened and learned from many others about their experience and lessons learned. So when this 5th wheel, open floorplan toyhauler was found in 2016, we knew it was for us.

Now we are not limited by weight as the new truck is a RAM 3500 dually diesel. This allows us to be ready for the next toyhauler when we find it.
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Old 02-09-2021, 10:20 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDGoose View Post
We have decided to do all we reasonably can to keep our 2008 WolfPack 295WP. And it pulled well with our 2013 RAM 2500 diesel. And for that truck were were at 90% capacity.

This was our first RV. But we listened and learned from many others about their experience and lessons learned. So when this 5th wheel, open floorplan toyhauler was found in 2016, we knew it was for us.

Now we are not limited by weight as the new truck is a RAM 3500 dually diesel. This allows us to be ready for the next toyhauler when we find it.

what is the ccc on the 2008? nice choice btw and they are a nic toyhauler. the 30wp was my favorite floor plan but the worst towing experiance i have ever had and that includes pulling double hay sleds with steering gear!

i do not have pics of ours on my phone but on a hard drive at home. ours did not have an L shaped counter top so i ordered a counter top from forest river while it was still new. made a pattern and took that to a local shop that does custome counter tops and they cut it out on there cnc table. $100 was well worth it to me! made a matching removable L shaped counter top that added 70% more counter space. i purchased an air ride hitch that stayed in the bed of my truck. they made a major difference in the towing experiance. the air ride pin boxs do pretty good as well but not as good as the air ride hitches. the neo angle shower in ours had an 8" tall base where the 2012 model went to a 4". this would've been huge for me as i am only 5'11" and had to stand with my head in that small sky light lol my only real complaints about that 2011 295wp was lack of ground clearence, lack of tire to floor clearence and clear windows. since they didnt install tinted windows then it should've had a 15k ac unit min. i did like the ducted ac but you loose some cooling through the attick that way which again the 15k would've prob offset that. i had to change the leaf springs out and had a leaf added as with a 1960 lb toy loaded all 4 tires had struck the floor a time or two in a 7 hr drive. prob in the construction zone. 16' tall tires would've been better for less rolling resistance but that would require wheel wells and that would've gave us 2" more ground clearence. i ripped 3 pair of stabilizers off the back lol 2 in filing station entrences and 1 in my yard! still very comfortable inside. i installed a 3 speed ceiling fan in our and that really helped.
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