Leaning toward Toy Hauler for kids bunkhouse. New buyer, advice appreciated!

[cogniz]

First time buyer (rented a 24 Quicksilver for 50 day 8,000 mile family adventure) thinking hard about customizing the garage of a TH for kids and dogs (3 and 2).


TH advantage seems to be build quality(durability) and payload.



We don't have a lot of time to customize, as we are selling our home and expect it to sell in the next couple of weeks.


I've looked at ATC (incredible rigs, expensive, unicorn-like finding used), Campmaster (to spartan), Work & Play (pretty good), Livin' Lite (also rare) and a few others but nothing jumping out.


My wife hates the sterile cold interior of ATC but I love the utility, design and potential resell later (although I'd rather buy for life)...


I'm looking at 28-32 foot bunkhouse models, too.


BTW, my tow vehicle is a 2008 Sequioa limited (airbags, 10k rating).


Thank you for any perspective you may offer.

[okcnewbie]

You did "first things first". You rented and found out that your family loves travelling together.

Floorplan is on the top of most peoples list. If you and your wife think TH is part of the floorplan you need than just find a nice one that gets your wife's blessing.

I personally wouldn't like to be in a "short notice" type of buying situation. I think I would even consider a month long air BNB while I found my dream RV.

Good luck.

[cogniz]

Originally Posted by okcnewbie

Floorplan is on the top of most peoples list. If you and your wife think TH is part of the floorplan you need than just find a nice one that gets your wife's blessing.

OK, thank you for that input. I hear you about moving too fast in making a decision.



There are so many options (mfctrs, layouts) I'm overwhelmed with discerning quality of marketing hype. I understand Thor's (and the other major players) business model and I'm shocked consumers put up with it (dealer as QC, customer relationship manager). Seems to create poor incentives.


A bunkhouse model meets the need best but again, I'm concerned with the low payload of most of them. We would like the option to boondock some, so just adding 50 gal of water eats up huge percentages of the payload of so many of the mass produced TTs. That's the appeal of a Toy Hauler to me. The utility.



Also, I'm surprised at how new the secondary used market is on average. Where are the well built older TT's? That's the appeal of the ATC. Very expensive but they seem to hold tremendous value over time. And the owners are zealots, which says a great deal about their overall satisfaction with their purchase.


So all that said, what brands should I look at? Or another way, which brands should absolutely be avoided?

[4thgenceli]

We're only on month 4 of owning our toy hauler (genesis supreme wanderer 24 footer). We spent darn near a a year finding the one we liked. Layout and 'flow' of the interior was huge for us, along with what it did/didn't have (namely I wanted an onboard generator and she wanted a slide, but we had to buy to fit our truck so both those were nixed).

We also looked at the ATC and Work & Play. Personally, I would have purchased the work & Play over the ATC. The separate garage was a huge selling point for us - but the weight was sadly just a bit over my desired load. ATCs are nice and as you say, very utility, however I'd caution on the overall construction (all aluminum). Sure it's light & strong - but the ones I looked at here in the Phoenix area were uh... HOT. Sure they were sitting on the lot for who knows how long without AC running - but something to keep in mind. I was out running some trails for 3 hours, had the gen off and came back and it was only 85 inside the camper (about a 110 degree day). So -- just keep that in mind unless you don't live on the surface of the sun.

I'd say also do your own research and buy from a dealer you get warm fuzzies from. The major dealers around town here - I hated them all. Super pressure, wanting me to sign now, relentless call backs...etc. I bought from a small family dealer here. Walked in, said I'm looking for something in X, Y, and Z, they pointed us that direction (granted we squirreled and had to check out the Momentum G-class $80,000 toy hauler hah). No pressure, just answered all our questions without any follow up. Told them we'll think about it when we found the one we liked, drove away and called them back 3 days later with more questions. Questions answered, and 5 hours later we had the camper in our driveway. Unlike Camping World or LA Mesa -- you can't walk the lot without answering 1000 questions and being escorted.


Long story short -- take your time and figure out what works for your family. What I bought may not necessarily work for you. Find a dealer you trust and like - and go from there.

[Kimbrough2]

We have 3 kids and 3 dogs. We borrowed a few different types of trailers before we decided on a toyhauler. We like to boondock alot, so the larger tanks and onboard generator were must haves. We looked at many trailer manufacturers after deciding on a toy hauler over a bunkhouse. We both took notes and prioritized our lists separately, then shared. We both liked the Pacific Coachworks models over all the big names. It was only tied with the Winnie, during our investigation. I was tied, she picked PC over Winnie because she is petite and the cabinets in the Winnie were too high for her. We didn't let price influence us at all, as we usually keep everything for a very long time. We are both still very happy with our trailer. We have had 0 issues. There are several perks of the TH over the Bunkhouse. Ours gets used for everything from kayaking/ team sports/ mountain biking/ small fishing boat/ quads/ during Christmas, Santa Claus stores his stuff in it since it is not at our home. Plus when the kids get older, you aren't stuck with a chunk of unusable trailer.

[Kimbrough2]

Take your time and make sure to spend alot of time in the one you like the most. Like spend 3 hours in it just making sure and talking about everything.

I have watched friends buy trailers without a separate master bedroom= much harder to chase the wife around.

No matter how cool some big rv's look, if they don't fit your camping style, they aren't worth a penny.

A bunkhouse can be cool, but without a bigger tow rig it will never be -having coffee on the patio while looking out at the lake cool!

[cogniz]

Originally Posted by Kimbrough2

Take your time and make sure to spend alot of time in the one you like the most.

Kim, your comments are so helpful. Thank you.


We toured locally today, only 4 toyhaulers at 3 different dealers. I really like the ATC (all aluminum, sterile interior) for build quality and weight, but my wife hates the cold interior. The lack of visual wood is tough. Also, what about storage?

We would have to build the garage out with bunks, tote storage, etc. to make it work. Did y'all change the garage? How to manage food, clothing, etc?

Thanks again.

[Kimbrough2]

All of our food fits for about 5 days. If we go out longer we plan accordingly and bring things we normally would not. Like substitute almond milk for regular milk, due to almond milk not needing to be refrigerated until opened. We have also packed an ice chest for times we needed extra cold storage.

As far as the kids sleeping arrangements- we have a drop down queen that the girls can and usually do share. We also have 2 fold down beds that are sofa conversions. My son usually sleeps there.

The kids clothes are kept in tub's that we bought to fit under the sofas. We keep additional clothing when needed in tubs under our bed in the master. The tubs work great because we only let them bring what fits in the tub. We carry them into the house, they load them up, and I carry them back out to the trailer. There is also 2 additional tubs under the sofas that can be used for their clothes or dry food storage..

One of the only reasons my wife went for the TH setup was that I agreed to not get one with the industrial look, even though I would've preferred it.
A big selling point on our model was the larger shower/bath, since my little guy was only 3 at the time.

[cogniz]

Thanks Kim. Helpful. Totes are a good solution.


I've burned 8+ hours going back and forth, looking at TT bunkhouse models, trying to learn who makes solid products, who makes junk. It's a never ending circle...


But we are back to the TH for so many reasons. I found an old (2003) Campmaster. Pretty boxy and very low to the ground. But cheap. Seems solid and could be worth the renovation. Not sure I've got the time (we are selling our house now)



ATC / Livin' Lite win the weight / strength / durability test but fail horribly in liveable decor and insulation. The idea of spending so much money on a sterile box is officially off the table for the wife.



The search continues...thanks again for your comments Kim.

[Kimbrough2]

Good luck. Don't let it stress you out. Another tip for checking them out- after we were pretty solid on our top 3, we brought our kids and 2 extras just to have them climb all over to see how we felt the crowding was.

[Normal_Dave]

Every now and then a little rain must fall, even in the middle of Summer in Georgia. Here it comes...

With a Toyota Sequoia, you are extremely limited in real world toy hauler capabilities.

Your payload will likely be eaten up by the family, dogs, and gear, leaving very little for the typical heavy tongue weight of a toy hauler. In other words you will likely never get near your 10K capacity rating, before you exceed either remaining payload or rear axle rating.

I love the idea of a toy hauler for the family. When we went shopping for what our family wanted, and saw what little the market offered in terms of quality and budget, we ended up building/converting a custom ordered cargo trailer.

Not glamorous, but bulletproof, functional, and lighter weight. I now tow it with my full-sized Montero 4x4 SUV. While this concept may not be for you, it should give you more ideas. We spent most of our time outside anyhow, hiking, biking, paddling, cooking, so ours ended up being a gear hauler, base camp, and shelter during rainy weather.
Teardrops n Tiny Travel Trailers • View topic - 4 kids+ 6 bikes+ 4 kayaks+ 1 canoe+ camp stuff=7x16 CTC

On the ATC, consider wrapping the cabinet doors/walls with a more visually pleasing vinyl wrap?

I liked what I saw of the Genesis Supreme mentioned above.

Also checkout Outdoors RV trail series, but be prepared to upgrade the tow rig regardless. Outdoors RV are very well built, but also heavier than most.
https://outdoorsrvmfg.com/trail-series-class/

Apologies in advance...I foresee a trip out West in your future, along with a new 2500 series tow rig, once you and your wife watch this:
https://youtu.be/VJ7lyg3g01Q

Now, if we could get these over here...(Kokoda Caravan Australia)

[cogniz]

Originally Posted by Normal_Dave

Every now and then a little rain must fall, even in the middle of Summer in Georgia. Here it comes...

Normal Dave, you are killing me with that video. That is an amazing kit. I dare not look up the cost....so thanks! Or, darn it!


Thanks for the education on the Sequoia, seriously. So the 10k rating is not a tow rating, but total weight of passengers, cargo, full liquids, etc? If true, that's not how I understood it!


What would you recommend as the max GVWR rating of a trailer I should consider? Thanks for your input!!

[Normal_Dave]

I think we need more information about your tow vehicle, and what/who you plan to put in it. Long read, but maybe it will help.
https://www.irv2.com/forums/f282/201...ml#post4153147

Forum member GoLeafsGo set out to purchase a new Outdoors RV 21DBS and tow it with his modified Toyota Land Cruiser. Lots of discussion, numbers were close, but after he got the trailer home, he soon purchased a new Ram 2500 Mega Cab Cummins Diesel 4x4 Single Rear Wheel truck.
https://www.irv2.com/forums/f45/help...le-388062.html

In short, all because the Land Cruiser didn't have enough payload capacity left when loaded to properly handle the tongue weight of the Creekside 21DBS.

I imagine the Sequoia has less capacity than the Land Cruiser. Snap/post a picture of your payload(yellow) sticker from your Sequoia.


The tow rating is correct at 10K, if everything else is perfect, still within specs. Around here they call each specification the "limiter".
Rear axle rating
front axle rating

Payload rating
Gross Vehicle weight rating
Maximum tongue weight of hitch
Maximum trailer weight of hitch


Exceed any single one of these ratings with a trailer of any weight, then you are over capacity. Maximum tow rating also doesn't consider wind resistance of a big boxy camper trailer.



This statement subject to argument, but typically toy haulers have even heavier empty tongue weight, so that when they are loaded, they have a more traditional trailer tongue weight.


Your payload capacity by specs is reduced by real world weights.
GVWR minus actual loaded weight is payload capacity.


Since payload in the SUV is often the first to max out, lets look at that in theory:
1,280 lbs minus (won't count the driver)

adult passenger ~150
3 kids ~300
2 dogs ~90
stuff ~150

fuel ~120 (20G)
leaves ~ 470 lbs capacity. (It really, it adds up quick...)


Typical trailer tongue weight is often ~12% of overall loaded trailer weight.
470/12% = ~ 3,900 lbs loaded trailer to be within spec of your loaded Sequoia payload capacity in this example. Nowhere near 10K trailer capacity.


If we often load a trailer with about 1,000 lbs of gear/water/propane/batteries, then you are now shopping for trailers with dry weights in the 2,900 lb category.


Sure, this is disappointing and maybe a bit extreme, but I wanted to paint a picture so you can adjust your sights a bit, before you put down a deposit on "the one", only to find out you will be miserable, and unsafe when towing the dream trailer.


I really like the Sequoia. Since the last Montero was imported in 2006, a Sequoia is high on my list of replacements for my beloved Montero. My loaded trailer is 3,000lbs, I wouldn't want to tow much more than that with my SUV, (recognizing it isn't anywhere near the beast a Sequoia is).


How did the Quicksilver do on the rental, and how much additional weight did you put in it?